Verizon can Compete Effectively Against FirstNet for Public-Safety Users

[mmckenna]

But during the day and into late evening, the network is almost fully saturated. ... I guess what I'm wondering now is, at what point does the priority start benefitting me? When my download and upload speeds are both lower than 1mbps, that speed isn't doing me much good when i'm needing to utilize data in a timely manner on my device.

When you talked with Verizon, did they explain what "priority" meant? It may not mean what you think. It may mean you get some throughput, but not necessary at full speeds.
I'd ask for something in writing.

 

[Critt313]

I am going to copy and paste 3 emails below from Verizon. Tell me what you think it means. To me, it means priority data and voice, just like FirstNet offers, only it's Verizon's version. I've got Wireless Priority Service on my iPhone, and Mobile Broadband Priority on my Mifi Jetpack device.

Dear Matthew Ervin,

Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless Government Customer Operations Team.

Please be advised that Mobile Broadband Priority Service (MBP) and Wireless Priority Service (WPS) both provide data and voice priority service to first responders during periods of network congestion.

The differences are as follows:

WPS is a Department of Homeland Security program that allows us to offer priority network access to eligible users during times of national security, emergency preparedness and wireless network congestion. It is recommended for devices primarily used for voice, since users can add end-to-end voice priority (cross-carrier), simply by dialing *272+the 10-digit number. It also includes always on priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for data.

MBP Service provides always on for priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for voice and data (in-carrier only). As such, this service is recommended for devices that primarily use data.

Please do not alter the subject line of the message when replying. This will ensure continuity of correspondence pertaining to your request. Please do not resubmit this order as this will cause duplication and delay your request.

Thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless.

Sincerely,

Darryl Stalter
Special Projects Coordinator
Wireless Business Group​

Hello Mr. Ervin,

Please be advised. The First Responder Benefits Program has two options available for priority services on your devices.

Mobile Broadband Priority
or
Wireless Priority Service



See Below for further information about Wireless Priority Services and Mobile Broadband Priority.

Mobile Broadband Priority and Wireless Priority Services both provide data and voice priority service to first responders during periods of network congestion.

Wireless devices cannot be provisioned with both WPS and MBP, as they both provide voice and data priority.

Wireless Priority Services is a Department of Homeland Security program that allows us to offer priority network access to eligible users during times of national security, emergency preparedness and wireless network congestion. It is recommended for devices primarily used for voice, since users can add end-to-end voice priority, simply by dialing *272+the 10-digit number. Cannot be added to Data Only Devices (e.g. Tablets, MiFi's, Routers, etc)

Mobile Broadband Priority provides priority access to a Verizon Wireless network connection on any mobile device and is recommended for devices primarily used for data.

Patrice Hayes
GCO Project Team Supervisor​

Hello,



**DHS is associated with the voice portion of Wireless Priority Service, however Verizon provides priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for data as part of the service.
** Below explains the differences:

WPS is a Department of Homeland Security program that allows us to offer priority network access to eligible users during times of national security, emergency preparedness and wireless network congestion. It is recommended for devices primarily used for voice, since users can add end-to-end voice priority (cross-carrier), simply by dialing *272+the 10-digit number. It also includes always on priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for data.

MBP Service provides always on for priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for voice and data (in-carrier only). As such, this service is recommended for devices that primarily use data.

In case you need it, here is your reference number: 177744015​

 

[mmckenna]

OK.

So, this one: "Wireless devices cannot be provisioned with both WPS and MBP, as they both provide voice and data priority."
-Key phrase is "voice and data priority".-

And then this: "MBP Service provides always on for priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for voice and data (in-carrier only). As such, this service is recommended for devices that primarily use data."
-OK, so priority for in-carrier only data traffic.-
Two things...
1. When you are doing your testing, are you testing to another Verizon device on the Verizon network?
2. Priority means you'll get access to the cell site, sort of like WPS. It doesn't say that you'll get full data speed access to the network.
Verizon will never put that in writing since there are way too many variables that can impact data speeds.

I think you are expecting to get full LTE speeds at all times by having the MBP service. I don't think that is a realistic expectation. As I said above, too many variables, and Verizon would have a hard time giving you full speeds through the network 24x7.

But, a call to Verizon with a specific question about network speed expectations while using their MBP services should get you a specific answer.

 

[Critt313]

OK.

So, this one: "Wireless devices cannot be provisioned with both WPS and MBP, as they both provide voice and data priority."
-Key phrase is "voice and data priority".-

And then this: "MBP Service provides always on for priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for voice and data (in-carrier only). As such, this service is recommended for devices that primarily use data."
-OK, so priority for in-carrier only data traffic.-
Two things...
1. When you are doing your testing, are you testing to another Verizon device on the Verizon network?
2. Priority means you'll get access to the cell site, sort of like WPS. It doesn't say that you'll get full data speed access to the network.
Verizon will never put that in writing since there are way too many variables that can impact data speeds.

I think you are expecting to get full LTE speeds at all times by having the MBP service. I don't think that is a realistic expectation. As I said above, too many variables, and Verizon would have a hard time giving you full speeds through the network 24x7.

But, a call to Verizon with a specific question about network speed expectations while using their MBP services should get you a specific answer.

Depending which representative I speak with at Verizon, I get different answers. A few of them have even admitted that these priority features are still relatively new which makes me question whether or not they are providing me with answers from sources they have in front of them or if they are just telling me what they believe but with some uncertainty. You're really good at analyzing notes. Yes, when performing speed tests I have used my Verizon iphone (with priority features of course) to my friend's Verizon iPhone (without priority features of course), and the speed tests have been performed at the same time in the same location, like in the same vehicle sitting still in a parking lot. I did not ever expect to get full LTE speeds at all times, I do understand that's not a rational expectation, but when the network is congested and the LTE speeds are extraordinarily slow, like under 1mbps with full signal and not over my 22gb high speed limit, I do expect to get at least slightly higher speeds than lines without any priority, at least enough to still utilize say the Maps app or Google search on Safari. Perhaps that's an unrealistic expectation, but I don't believe that it is because speeds that are too slow to do anything are pretty much the same as a fully saturated network with no available bandwidth. I am just trying to better understand the dynamics of these priority features and I do agree that a call or email to Verizon with a specific question about network speed expectation is a great idea. I'll shoot them an email and let you know what kind of response they come up with!

 

[Critt313]

OK.

So, this one: "Wireless devices cannot be provisioned with both WPS and MBP, as they both provide voice and data priority."
-Key phrase is "voice and data priority".-

And then this: "MBP Service provides always on for priority access to Verizon’s 4G LTE network for voice and data (in-carrier only). As such, this service is recommended for devices that primarily use data."
-OK, so priority for in-carrier only data traffic.-
Two things...
1. When you are doing your testing, are you testing to another Verizon device on the Verizon network?
2. Priority means you'll get access to the cell site, sort of like WPS. It doesn't say that you'll get full data speed access to the network.
Verizon will never put that in writing since there are way too many variables that can impact data speeds.

I think you are expecting to get full LTE speeds at all times by having the MBP service. I don't think that is a realistic expectation. As I said above, too many variables, and Verizon would have a hard time giving you full speeds through the network 24x7.

But, a call to Verizon with a specific question about network speed expectations while using their MBP services should get you a specific answer.

Their is also an annual event coming up this weekend that attracts thousands of people to this area. Voice and SMS Text usually work just fine during the event, but LTE comes to an absolute halt. You can't even send so much as an iMessage. I think this event will be the perfect opportunity to test whether or not my priority LTE feature actually allows me a smidge of bandwidth or not during a complete overload. I'll try and do a few things from my iPhone with he WPS, and I'll also connect to my Mifi device (with the MBP) and see what happens. I'm expecting nothing to happen honestly, ha ha.

 

[mmckenna]

If you are talking to the first tier people at the 800 number, then that's likely going to be an issue.
Find out if your agency has a dedicated account rep and work with them.

 

[Critt313]

If you are talking to the first tier people at the 800 number, then that's likely going to be an issue.
Find out if your agency has a dedicated account rep and work with them.

Mmckenna, It didn't take me long to realize that the first tier reps at the general customer service 800 number have pretty much nothing to do with first responder features. I have been using a number provided to my by the DHS, I believe it's the government assistance line (1-877-262-2950), but even they seem to be a little confused and provide different answers to the same question. DHS said the number they provided me is the correct department to call for questions and issues relating to first responders. Unfortunately, I don't have an agency rep to turn to. First responders are now allowed to utilize priority features on their personal devices, since most responders do not have company phones provided to them. Somehow, they change your profile so that you're still using your consumer device, but its provisioned to allow Verizon to add the features. I have found that by emailing them, I get more direct answers. I don't know if it's because they have more time to research any questions or what. When communicating by email, it's from the VZW WFM GCO Projects Team, whatever that is. The only person I have to turn to is myself. DHS made me the Point of Contact for my organization since my organization didn't have one, but that's only for the WPS/GETs features. Verizon is to added priority data by default to users with WPS, or so I've been told in emails.

 

[mmckenna]

So, sounds like you should be on the right track.
However, in my experience, the first tier support is usually not always the most informed. Their primary task is to get rid of as many customer questions as possible to prevent things from being escalated to the more costly higher tier support.

You have some good questions that probably are not going to get a proper answer on a hobbyist website. I think you'd be better off working on getting the ticket escalated within Verizon. Present your findings and ask for a explanation as to what you are seeing. It's entirely possible your phone was not properly set up, could be a local issue with the cell site, could be any number of things. Until you get the right set of eyes on the issue, you'll continue to get brushed off by tier 1 support.

 

[Critt313]

So, sounds like you should be on the right track.
However, in my experience, the first tier support is usually not always the most informed. Their primary task is to get rid of as many customer questions as possible to prevent things from being escalated to the more costly higher tier support.

You have some good questions that probably are not going to get a proper answer on a hobbyist website. I think you'd be better off working on getting the ticket escalated within Verizon. Present your findings and ask for a explanation as to what you are seeing. It's entirely possible your phone was not properly set up, could be a local issue with the cell site, could be any number of things. Until you get the right set of eyes on the issue, you'll continue to get brushed off by tier 1 support.

i'll post below their response from yesterday's email. You're right, they should have all the answers, but last month when i starting inquring, I was sure getting the run around! I've bugged the **** out of them for it too. Different answers to the same questions has done nothing but provide me with some entertainment during downtime at work! I'm going to do a little field test this weekend at the major event i was talking about previously. Might even take a First Net company phone with me to compare results. I'm really not expecting my phone to work this weekend at the peak of the event just like last year, but we'll see!!

"Subject: Network Speed Expectations for First Responders
Hello:

I have a question about network speed expectations for first responders with Wireless Priority Service. I have been told that Verizon automatically adds Priority Data to my device when enrolled in Wireless Priority Service. I live in a college town in which the LTE network is consistently saturated during the day and into the late evening hours. My download speeds are often as low as 2mbps during the day and late evening even though I have full signal and am not over my 22gb high speed allowance. I have conducted several speed tests simultaneously with friends that also have Verizon iPhones but without priority features. Their network speeds are the same as mine, and sometimes even faster. The tests have all been performed at the same time, in the same location, from the same speedtest source. Please help me to understand the dynamics of Always On Data Priority. Should I be expecting a minimal LTE download/upload speeds? Can you further explain in detail the true meaning of Priority Data, particularly what kind of speeds I can expect on a congested network? Is network speed even a reliable test for priority data? I don't expect full LTE speeds, however I do expect the speeds to be fast enough for me to use basic apps such as the Maps App and basic Safari webpages, but perhaps my expectations are skewed.

Thanks so much for your help,

Matthew Ervin"


"Hello Matthew,

We have received your inquiry.

The addition of the priority feature does not cause your data speeds to increase or decrease. The feature allows you to gain access to the network during heavy traffic or emergency situations when there may be little to no access to the network. Once you have access to the network, your device will operate at it's normal speed or speed that is based on your plan. Unfortunately, the feature will not increase your data speeds. It is only priority access to the network when others may not be able to access due to emergencies in the area or very heavy traffic.

In case you need it, here is your reference number: 178320367"

Still no mention of a minimal download/upload speed, so i'm still not entirely sure what "priority means". If the speeds are too low to do anything at all, it's no benefit for me.

 

[mmckenna]

The addition of the priority feature does not cause your data speeds to increase or decrease. The feature allows you to gain access to the network during heavy traffic or emergency situations when there may be little to no access to the network. Once you have access to the network, your device will operate at it's normal speed or speed that is based on your plan. Unfortunately, the feature will not increase your data speeds. It is only priority access to the network when others may not be able to access due to emergencies in the area or very heavy traffic.

In case you need it, here is your reference number: 178320367"

Still no mention of a minimal download/upload speed, so i'm still not entirely sure what "priority means". If the speeds are too low to do anything at all, it's no benefit for me.

And this is exactly what I'd expect them to say.
No cell carrier is going to promise a minimum network speed. Ever. Like I mentioned earlier, there are WAY too many variables involved for them to do that with any level of accuracy.
What they are saying is that you won't get bumped. Sort of like WPS, you'll get bumped to the front of the line, but they are not going to disconnect active calls from other paying non-WPS customers to get your call through. You still have to wait, but at least you'll be moved in front of the non-WPS users.

And while I'm not a big fan of FirstNet, at least their approach is "here's a separate slice of spectrum" that "should" give you some better speeds. But even they will not guarantee anything.

If your job relies on a network connection, then you will need to consider getting off the public networks and onto something dedicated to just public safety. And even then, no network engineer is going to promise you a minimum speed on the wireless part of the network, just way too many variables.

 

[ten13]

Atleast in NYC that I know of, T-Mobile offers a discount on personal phone service for PS servants.

So does Verizon, including retirees.

What's being left out of this FirstNet thing is politics.

With that, despite the cries of a 'national network,' the result will be two 'national networks,' one with AT&T, and one with Verizon (possibly broken down by geographical regions).

It will be no better than what we have today, that is, different agencies on different 'national networks,' and someone screaming for "interoperability" for all of it.

Technology, or the lack of it, will not even be part of the equation.

 

[ffexpCP]

I'm an agency Firstnet admin. My experiences have been horrendous. Very poor performance and even worse customer service. I've actually had agency members leave firstnet, and I've abandoned any consideration of moving agency devices to it.

Seems the commission the sales people earn is a problem. Everyone has been pushing it, but no one knows how to set it up properly. I've been through a few reps, and can't get issues resolved. Tons of excuses and little follow-through.

System looks good in theory, but I've been very disappointed with actual deployment.

 

[Critt313]

I just returned from a huge event and I had zero LTE at the peak of the event. That's with Priority Data for first responders, so apparently their first responders priority data is crap. i've noticed no changes since they added the features. Calling and texting worked fine. iMessaging would not work.

 

[Markb]

I'm an agency Firstnet admin. My experiences have been horrendous. Very poor performance and even worse customer service. I've actually had agency members leave firstnet, and I've abandoned any consideration of moving agency devices to it.

Seems the commission the sales people earn is a problem. Everyone has been pushing it, but no one knows how to set it up properly. I've been through a few reps, and can't get issues resolved. Tons of excuses and little follow-through.

System looks good in theory, but I've been very disappointed with actual deployment.

Do you have an agency admin at the state level? Here in California our Office of Emergency Services oversees Firstnet at the state level (at least that's what I have been told). We moved a few of our MDC's and Cief Officers' tablets to FN as a trial and we were asked/told to report any issues to OES. AT$T still has to answer to the FN board and I am sure that someone up the chain would like to know if they're screwing it up.

The trial has gone pretty well for us so far, FWIW.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Critt313]

And this is exactly what I'd expect them to say.
No cell carrier is going to promise a minimum network speed. Ever. Like I mentioned earlier, there are WAY too many variables involved for them to do that with any level of accuracy.
What they are saying is that you won't get bumped. Sort of like WPS, you'll get bumped to the front of the line, but they are not going to disconnect active calls from other paying non-WPS customers to get your call through. You still have to wait, but at least you'll be moved in front of the non-WPS users.

And while I'm not a big fan of FirstNet, at least their approach is "here's a separate slice of spectrum" that "should" give you some better speeds. But even they will not guarantee anything.

If your job relies on a network connection, then you will need to consider getting off the public networks and onto something dedicated to just public safety. And even then, no network engineer is going to promise you a minimum speed on the wireless part of the network, just way too many variables.

And, I'm back to getting the run around from Verizon, again. The event over the past weekend I had absolutely Zero LTE speeds. Calling and Texting worked fine. I emailed Verizon government department, and they wrote back. See below.


"Matthew Ervin <mervin.0587@gmail.com>
Sun, Apr 14, 6:59 AM (1 day ago)



to VZW

I was at an event this weekend. Cell networks were congested to the point that data was not usable. I’m suppose to have priority data on my account but could not use my phone. Shouldn’t I have been put before other users since I have Priority data on my line?

Matthew

Sent from my iPhone"



"Hello Matthew,

Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless Government Customer Operations Team.

Be advised that we only manage the addition of the Priority Services features to your account. Please contact customer service at the number below for any technical issues you may experience.


If you have any questions regarding your account, please contact customer support at 1-800-922-0204.

Thank you for choosing Verizon."

 

[mmckenna]

This is where having an agency rep is helpful. One call and things get resolved.

 

[Critt313]

This is where having an agency rep is helpful. One call and things get resolved.

I sure wish we had one.

 

[Critt313]

I finally got an answer as to why Verizon priority features haven't made any difference in my data speeds when on a congested network. It's not "always on" priority as it's advertised on their website. The priority services have to be activated on the other end so it's only good for big disasters in which recovery operations are ongoing. Or if they are notified of huge, huge events ahead of time and make arrangements prior to large events. So priority services for responders on Verizon are useless most of the time. I hate to say it, but FirstNet is the only services that offers reliable "always on" priority, now if they can just expand their coverage to match or exceed Verizon's.

 

[Markb]

Good to know. Hopefully when band 14 is built out, it will mean service on par with Verizon. Hard to imagine that this will be the case nationwide, but I guess we will see......

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Critt313]

Good to know. Hopefully when band 14 is built out, it will mean service on par with Verizon. Hard to imagine that this will be the case nationwide, but I guess we will see......

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

My thoughts, too. Hard to imagine service will be on par, but we'll see! I guess for now I'll stick with my Verizon phone. I just don't appreciate being told I've got "always on" priority voice and data when in fact I don't.