Wayne Police Encrypted

[JethrowJohnson]

Full E does not encourage corruption. Dispatch channels are still recorded. The public still has access through certain public laws to those recordings. Just because a channel is now encrypted does not mean the mindset goes to "I can say and do whatever I want."

Can you read emails between Officers of a PD on a daily basis ? No, certain communications are locked down for public view. However, I can tell you certain States have very broad public records access laws, including email communications, that certain Detectives that I email have that specifically spelled out in their signature line.

The corrupt will be corrupt regardless.

Amen

 

[wtp]

the military goes by "if you use a radio, someone could hear it".
i would guess that as many are ex-military, they would think that way too.
you don't need a radio to be corrupt.

 

[richee2000]

NO COMMENT!!!
(says "the guy who always complains every time another PD goes full encryption")

 

[Larry-G]

These fully E towns show no transparency to the public that pays their salaries, dispatch should be in the clear, Detectives and sensitive channels should be E, full E just encourages corruption, and makes it easier to hide things from the public and Press.

Don’t be silly, just because the outward comms are encrypted doesn’t mean there isn’t accountability.
Those comms are still recorded for this very reason and available where requested for legal reasons.

The entire of the UKs blue light services went fully encrypted over 20 years ago with the exception of the coast guard. Doesn’t mean there are any nefarious goings on. The whole encryption encourages corruption argument is a falicy made by people who don’t want to loose their imaginary “rights” to listen to police communications.

 

[Tac-1]

Full E does not encourage corruption. Dispatch channels are still recorded. The public still has access through certain public laws to those recordings. Just because a channel is now encrypted does not mean the mindset goes to "I can say and do whatever I want."

Can you read emails between Officers of a PD on a daily basis ? No, certain communications are locked down for public view. However, I can tell you certain States have very broad public records access laws, including email communications, that certain Detectives that I email have that specifically spelled out in their signature line.

The corrupt will be corrupt regardless.

Yes, Everything in and out of public safety is recorded, but who's checking the tape every day?

So, I guess you have to go to every department and check their recorded comms every day.

The Public has a right to know what going on in their communities, we pay for everything including the unnecessary cost to encrypt every radio.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Yes, Everything in and out of public safety is recorded, but who's checking the tape every day?

So, I guess you have to go to every department and check their recorded comms every day.

The Public has a right to know what going on in their communities, we pay for everything including the unnecessary cost to encrypt every radio.

Maybe where you are, there's too many people that just want to be nosy and go to car accidents and such and get in the way and take pictures they shouldn't be showing of the scene. We have a few people like that where I am.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Why would an agency go through the trouble and expense of enabling encryption, only for it to be temporary?

Montgomery County, PA did it temporarily on two of their P25 LE talkgroups on their old Smartzone system then the talkgroups became clear a year or two before they went full time "E" on the present-day Phase-II TRS. No idea why, testing?

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Montgomery County, PA did it temporarily on two of their P25 LE talkgroups on their old Smartzone system then the talkgroups became clear a year or two before they went full time "E" on the present-day Phase-II TRS. No idea why

Wood County Sheriff's Office in West Virginia did something similar just over the past few months. For years they used analog NFM on 154.92 MHz, but they also had a digital P25 channel on the same frequency which was mostly encrypted, and they used this for secure comms, but they switched to that for a few months while they were in process of setting up the new simulcast P25 channel, and it was ready to go except that it wasn't programmed into the cars yet. Thet got that finished and switched to the new channel on Tuesday at about 1100 HRS. The new frequency is 151.0175 MHz and they're keeping the old frequency for secure comms.

 

[Larry-G]

Yes, Everything in and out of public safety is recorded, but who's checking the tape every day?

So, I guess you have to go to every department and check their recorded comms every day.

The Public has a right to know what going on in their communities, we pay for everything including the unnecessary cost to encrypt every radio.

The public has zero rites to know what’s said on police comms regardless of the rights you believe you have.

That’s what FOI requests are for etc.

 

[K2NEC]

Not to mention there are times where names/DOB/SSN are mentioned over the air which most people shouldn't have access to and sometimes violates HIPAA. There are people out there that don't even listen to the department or live close enough to but will cry just because there's an "E" listed. And to those people, I'd throw on encryption just to spite you.
EDIT: Just wanted to add, 99.9% of people that are carrying those radios don't know what their radio is. All they know is they flip a switch or change a zone as they were instructed. They don't know that it means they are encrypted and if they were gonna say something stupid before, they are still gonna say it.

I'm just gonna leave this here...

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Not to mention there are times where names/DOB/SSN are mentioned over the air which most people shouldn't have access to and sometimes violates HIPAA. There are people out there that don't even listen to the department or live close enough to but will cry just because there's an "E" listed. And to those people, I'd throw on encryption just to spite you.
EDIT: Just wanted to add, 99.9% of people that are carrying those radios don't know what their radio is. All they know is they flip a switch or change a zone as they were instructed. They don't know that it means they are encrypted and if they were gonna say something stupid before, they are still gonna say it.

I'm just gonna leave this here...
View attachment 130103

Exactly.

 

[NParkNJ]

What I will miss is listening to is how systematic, and how they sounded on the air. Everything sounded nice and put together, compared to other departments, using whatever jargon they want, on both the officer and dispatch end.

 

[Tac-1]

Yes, Personal info is transmitted over the air sometimes, this is solved by having a secondary channel that is E to keep sensitive info from scanners and radios. or just using the laptop they all have in their cars.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

That poor horse

 

[K2NEC]

Yes, Personal info is transmitted over the air sometimes, this is solved by having a secondary channel that is E to keep sensitive info from scanners and radios. or just using the laptop they all have in their cars.

You really have the answer to everything don't you?

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Yes, Personal info is transmitted over the air sometimes, this is solved by having a secondary channel that is E to keep sensitive info from scanners and radios. or just using the laptop they all have in their cars.

I actually agree with you to a point on this whole topic somewhat, but one size does not fit all. On the other hand, I think the Motorola APX radios have a clear/secure switch on them so they could just secure it while running that information. I think that's what I would do if I were an officer, but my department still uses analog so that's not an option right now.

 

[Tac-1]

They have E for analog radios, The town of Lyndhurst had Encryption on their radios back in the 1970s, and so did Lacey Twp. and the FBI also had the same, it was used only when really needed.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

They have E for analog radios, The town of Lyndhurst had Encryption on their radios back in the 1970s, and so did Lacey Twp. and the FBI also had the same, it was used only when really needed.

I know it's possible to encrypt analog, but it's more expensive because they have to put a physical encryption key algorithm in the radio and it makes the signal weaker. So some departments don't even bother. I know my department doesn't because they only handle tactical comms on the phone, not the radio.

 

[APX8000]

Tac-1 I'm with you with that Dispatch channels should be in the clear. I get it, you want to know what's going on in your backyard and there is a public perception of the decrease in transparency. But I can tell you as someone who uses ENC daily, its not like we are having super secret comms unrelated to my job...I use Signal for that lol.

What I am against is streaming police channels all over the internet, and hence we have all these PDs flipping the switch. People here are there own worst enemy. If anyone wants to argue that is not the reason, I've spoken to countless officials that point directly to that as the primary reason, period. BUT cool down with the my taxpayer pays for blah blah blah. I always tell your kind to give me a raise or buy me better equipment. And if you think a Chief of Police or Sheriff cares about your concerns, they are more concerned with stopping the bleed of law enforcement personnel retiring, quitting etc in mass numbers to the point of lower standards just to hire people.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Tac-1 I'm with you with that Dispatch channels should be in the clear. I get it, you want to know what's going on in your backyard and there is a public perception of the decrease in transparency. But I can tell you as someone who uses ENC daily, its not like we are having super secret comms unrelated to my job...I use Signal for that lol.

What I am against is streaming police channels all over the internet, and hence we have all these PDs flipping the switch. People here are there own worst enemy. If anyone wants to argue that is not the reason, I've spoken to countless officials that point directly to that as the primary reason, period. BUT cool down with the my taxpayer pays for blah blah blah. I always tell your kind to give me a raise or buy me better equipment. And if you think a Chief of Police or Sheriff cares about your concerns, they are more concerned with stopping the bleed of law enforcement personnel retiring, quitting etc in mass numbers to the point of lower standards just to hire people.

The only reasons I have for wanting Dispatch channels in the clear is (1) it's nice to know when someone tries to get into your car while it's parked in your driveway and (2) I record all of the BOLO alerts for missing persons, stolen vehicles, wanted subjects, etc. and if they're actively looking for someone in my area I keep an eye out and there was one time I saw a kid they had just been searching for and were UTL and I stayed out on the porch just for a few minutes and saw him and called my PD's non-emergency number and they caught him over by the school. They were looking for him because he had just threatened his own father with a knife. If they were encrypted like my Sheriff's Office is, I would be oblivious to a lot of the stuff that almost literally happened in my back yard. But, on the other hand, there are some crazy people who just don't have any business listening to them because they want to be nosy and get in the way and cause trouble, so I really don't blame these agencies for putting an E on everything. I just don't. I trust them, but I just wish they didn't have to encrypt because then I can't exercise the saying, "If you see something, say something" bc if you don't know what you're looking for then you're not gonna know if it's been right under your nose the whole time. And that's all I've got to say about that.