What does "3 Alarm Fire" mean?

[oSutrooper]

Since this thread already has two wheels off onto the shoulder; What is a "Fire Stick". Every morning, the Village and Nichols Hills test their apparatus radios and one of the units is Village Fire Stick One. Is it a more believable and dignified name for a "Telesquirt"?

Fire Stick 1 in the village is nothing more than a telesquirt, why they call it fire stick i guess we will never know

 

[tomokla]

Further elaboration....

I guess I'll add a nickel on this discussion since its too snowy to do anything else.

For most agencies truck and ladder companies are the same thing - no difference. The State of Oklahoma typically refers to aerial apparatus as Ladders, however and has typically used the term "truck" incorrectly (if you subscribe to contemporary definitions of apparatus).

The "truck" companies that Tulsa utilized were 1997 Pierce Quantum's which are derived from the "ladder tender" concept that Phoenix, AZ uses. The idea behind these two units (which were originally sent to 7's and 25's...25's eventually went to 30's, etc) was that they would perform all the necessary functions of a ladder without a main aerial devices. Sometimes they were referred to as salvage and overhaul units due to their unique design and purpose. They were neat units but not overly flexible.

Squad companies are a different story in Tulsa. "Squads" used to refer to a variety of things (both post and pre 1990). First of all, back in the day all districts had a Squad company (nothing more then an engine company) that responded to all first alarms in the respective district. After sometime this was changed and they just became another engine company resource. By 1991 their were only two squads left of this type - 3 & 5. When in full operation the Squads were numbered 1-5 and were just used as manpower units - meaning they were robbed for personnel and oftentime out of service with their crews being redistributed throughout the city. Squad 5 was the last remaining unit of this sort. The term "squad" also referred to grass rigs, air cylinder vehicles and even the first rescue task force. For units called "Squads" (except for the pumpers described about) they were issued a three digit number. The first two digits described the station they were assigned to and the last digit described the resource function. If the last digit was a two (2) then it was a rescue unit, if the last digit was a one (1) it was a grass rig, if it was a five (5) it was an air cylinder ("Bottle Van") unit. For instance what we call Grass Rig 2 today used to be Squad 021 and Air and Light 27 used to be Squad 275. The Rescue unit know known as Rescue 4 used to be called Squad 042.

Squad 5 was the last pumper-based squad to go out of service which happened in 1999. Its crew staffs Ladder 23 today. The other three digit squads were phased out at different times but the designators for some were used well into the late 1990s and 2000s. Their was never a Squad 10 or 20.

As for alarm levels it is not so cut and dry. Many smaller departments don't utilize alarm levels because it isn't realistic. Depending on the system you're familiar with you can have Box, 1st, 2nd and so on alarm levels. I'm not sure if anyone in the Tulsa Metro uses Alarm Levels like this anymore. Today most agencies just call for resources on an as-needed basis. Tulsa utilizes a "Greater Alarm" rating system were the IC can call for a greater alarm Level 1-3. To save space: the higher the number, the greater the fire.

Hope this makes sense. I'll be happy to elaborate if someone has a question.

A

 

[PolarBear25]

A Truck are the vehicles with the big aerial ladders on the back, and they also carry ventilation fans to get the smoke out of buildings, chainsaws, and other forcible entry tools. They are used for overhaul and clean up also. (See my avatar picture, it is a ladder truck)

A pumper and an engine are the same type of vehicle, just different names. These are the vehicles that are in charge of putting out the fire. They have large water tanks.


These are basically the same vehicle also. These are small vehicles (usually pick-up trucks) that carry small water tanks to put out small fires such as grass and field fires. They usually are rugged vehicles with 4 wheel drive to get to remote locations.

Also known as Brush Pumpers..

 

[PolarBear25]

M.C.F.D. has 2 Ladders L1 & L2 (75 Foot Ladders with the Water cannon at the end) 4 Engines E3, E4, E5, and E6 or the R.E. 5 Brush Pumpers, 3 Rescue Squads S1, S2, and S3 (Air Van or Reserve Squad) Hazmat 1, and 203 (Shift Supervisor)

M.C.F.D. has 5 Stations

 

[oSutrooper]

M.C.F.D. has 2 Ladders L1 & L2 4 Engines E3, E4, E5, and E6 or the R.E. 5 Brush Pumpers, 3 Rescue Squads S1, S2, and S3 (Air Van or Reserve Squad) Hazmat 1, and 203 (Shift Supervisor)

M.C.F.D. has 5 Stations

Midwest City is getting a new engine very soon

 

[PolarBear25]

Midwest City is getting a new engine very soon

Yep to replace E3

 

[PolarBear25]

What is a hose tender and what dose it do?? And what is a Fire Stick and what dose it do??

 

[oSutrooper]

What is a hose tender and what dose it do?? And what is a Fire Stick and what dose it do??

A hose tender carries hoses to be used at major fires....

A fire stick as in the one in the village is nothing more than a ladder truck with a pump can do both jobs, be a fast attack engine and provide aireal operations

 

[PolarBear25]

OK so it's Just Like L1 or L2 (M.C.F.D.)

 

[PolarBear25]

Oh I saw E27 Last night it was with B.P. 102, E27 has horns (The White Sticks) I saw it and had a good laugh..

 

[KD5WLX]

How about a little "real history" -

Back in the early days, when horses pulled the equipment, everything was much smaller.

A "pumper" was a wagon with a pump on it. Since the pump was steam powered, it also had a boiler and was big and heavy, so nothing else came with the "pumper".

A second wagon was the hose wagon, to bring the hard suctions to draft or hook to hydrants (rarely) and the soft hose for attack lines.

A "hook" was another wagon with the large poles for pulling ceilings - and less well known, the big chains w/hooks for pulling down the walls of building to create fire breaks.

A ladder was another wagon that had ground ladders, and maybe a gear driven (but "man" powered") turnstile ladder.

Finally, you might also get a "tank" wagon - also known back east as a "water tender" - it's basically what it sounds like - a wagon with a big water tank on it.

Once fire apparatus went motorized, the vehicles get larger and can carry more "stuff". Also, the days of pulling down buildings for fire breaks goes away, and in the bigger cities, hydrants become common, so tanks are less necessary.

Big city departments combine pumpers and hose wagons into "engines" - that's the normal truck you see - typically nowadays has a 1000-2000 gallon per minute pump, and a 500 gallon or less tank, plus several hundred feet of "large" hose (might be all 3", or might be some small stuff and a bunch of 4" or 5". The big stuff is supply line (hydrant to pumper) and the smaller (3" and down) are attack lines. 3" can go either way. So now a pumper is really a "triple combination" - powerplant - the diesel engine - pump, the 1000gpm or greater pump and hose tender - the fact that it carries both attack and supply hose in some form. If it carries enough of each, then it qualifies (according to the NFPA) as a triple combo. Most big city pumpers will.

In "interface areas" (suburbs with significant borders of wildland or farmland) or rural areas, large amounts of supply hose becomes less of an issue - 1000' of 5" does you no good if the nearest hydrant is 3000' away, so some of their trucks have larger water tanks but then have to carry less hose (due to the weight). If the truck is big enough to still do both, then it might be classified as a quad. I forget the exact number, but I think either 1000 gallons or 1250 gallons is the lower limit to classify as a "tanker", too. Interestingly, big city units carry LESS water, and become dependent on the hydrants. At one point Philly was trying going to pumpers with NO tanks at all.

Now for the truck companies - you can have a rescue "truck", a ladder truck, or a salvage truck. Rescues used to be like Squad 51 from the old "Emergency" tv show - a 1 ton 6-by with a cargo box and storage comparments. Take the same chassis and put a 250 gallon water tank and a small, lawnmower engine powered pump and it's a brush buggy, wildland unit or (in Sapulpa) a QR (quick response). Some places call them mini-pumpers, too, and they can be a lot bigger than a 1 ton. But rescue got more sophisticated (with rope rescues, trench rescue (requires lots of shoring and plywood) and all the hydraulic tools, and all of a sudden rescue trucks start looking like the beer delivery trucks (and some are!).

Then there's salvage - this is the guys with plywood, tarps, buckets and shop vacs. Also likely to have fans for ejecting smoke and saws for cutting vents. That's the traditional "truck" job. Truckies do search and rescue first, then vent, then clean up, and leave the "wet on red" to the engine company crews. BTW, that's the old job of the "hook" companies. Ladders were an afterthought - what happened was things went both ways. The explosion of suburbia meant less 2 and 3 story buildings ("taxpayers" with a store on the 1st floor and apartments above) was exchanged for miles and miles of 1 story (suburban ranch) and thus ladder trucks became irrelevant. So you see things like truck 7 in Tulsa, with lots of compartments (it carried all the fans, tarps, ropes and rescue gear) but no hydraulic ladder or platform. At the other end you have downtown highrises that are too tall for ANY ladder truck. But where ladders work, they are big - and that means lots of room for comparments.

Eventually, ladder trucks got so big that someone tried to put everything on one set of wheels. Most ladders don't carry any water (the ladder is too heavy and makes the truck top-heavy, so the last thing you want is a tank of water sloshing around) and few carry pumps, either. They are dependent on an engine (pumper) sitting next to them to feed them water at high pressure and in high quantity. But by the time you get to 45' long truck chassis with tandem rear axles and 550 hp CAT engines, you realize they CAN carry a pump, and a decent amount of water, too (if not 1000 gallons). Now you get the Quint.

A quint is just a "5 way" combination - engine (propulsion), pump, hose, ladder (usually hydraulic) and rescue. A quint technically has to carry jaws of life and other rescue tools and be able to pump its own water. It doesn't necessarily have to carry its own water, though, especially if it has enough hose to reach a hydrant (remember, that's relative to how far apart the hydrants are). The downside of quints are they're bigger. In old neighborhoods with narrow streets, quints aren't so hot. Then again, in big, spread out suburbia, you can usually put one truck in front of the house, and one pumper at the hydrant (and the pumper brings most of the hose) and now all you need is manpower.

In Tulsa, there's really no reason for the downtown ladders (L-4) to be a quint - pumpers and hydrants are both abundant. Nor should L-7 be a quint - too big for the narrow streets. That's the same reason that E-3, E-5, and E-15 are the short wheelbase smaller types. L-29 and L-30 are perfect candidates for quints, though. Big streets, big buildings (even the single family houses in some spots) and places where the hydrants "thin out", which means your pumpers aren't "next door", they're strung out down several blocks "finding" water, or shuttling. Those are the reasons for having everything you need in "one rig".

 

[woodyrr]

M.C.F.D. has 2 Ladders L1 & L2 4 Engines E3, E4, E5, and E6 or the R.E. 5 Brush Pumpers, 3 Rescue Squads S1, S2, and S3 (Air Van or Reserve Squad) Hazmat 1, and 203 (Shift Supervisor)

And it seems like the whole kit and kaboodle is dispatched on every “shortness of breath” call.

All of this talk about what constitutes a “fire alarm” reminds me:

When I was growing up, Midwest City had two fire stations. They had fire trucks that were red – sort of: They had four wheels, a pump a tank, a cab, and this platform across the back where the firemen stood and held on for dear life as they raced about the city streets. The red – sort of – fire trucks could actually be used to put out fires.

Somewhere along the line, and it hasn’t been too many years ago, Midwest City discovered “modern fire apparatus”. I really shudder to see what this “new engine” is going to be. The current incarnation of “Ladder 2” which started out as a quaint happy little pumper truck, is two lanes wide, a block long, and two stories tall and that’s with the ladder stowed. This thing runs on EMS calls in tandem with a “Squad” that is almost as big. Now, I’m not dissing Ladder 2. It’s in the area where the Sheraton and other multi – story hotels are located. It will prove invaluable if one of the hotels manages to catch fire some day. My deal is, someone stubs their toe and both sides of the street are clogged with every conceivable type of emergency vehicle for as far as the eye can see. You'd think that there had been a mass murder. Back in the days of the red – sort of – fire trucks, the private ambulance company which was often the local funeral home (how many ways can you spell conflict of interest) showed up all by itself and they stuffed you into a big Cadillac ambulance and hauled you off to the Hospital. Somewhere between these two extremes, there must be a happy medium.

Note: Some of the terms, “firemen” and “fire truck”, for example, that I have chosen reflect the vernacular of that time.

 

[ernesTbud]

means real hot fire bring marshmallows

 

[PolarBear25]

How about a little "real history" -

Back in the early days, when horses pulled the equipment, everything was much smaller.

A "pumper" was a wagon with a pump on it. Since the pump was steam powered, it also had a boiler and was big and heavy, so nothing else came with the "pumper".

A second wagon was the hose wagon, to bring the hard suctions to draft or hook to hydrants (rarely) and the soft hose for attack lines.

A "hook" was another wagon with the large poles for pulling ceilings - and less well known, the big chains w/hooks for pulling down the walls of building to create fire breaks.

A ladder was another wagon that had ground ladders, and maybe a gear driven (but "man" powered") turnstile ladder.

Finally, you might also get a "tank" wagon - also known back east as a "water tender" - it's basically what it sounds like - a wagon with a big water tank on it.

Once fire apparatus went motorized, the vehicles get larger and can carry more "stuff". Also, the days of pulling down buildings for fire breaks goes away, and in the bigger cities, hydrants become common, so tanks are less necessary.

Big city departments combine pumpers and hose wagons into "engines" - that's the normal truck you see - typically nowadays has a 1000-2000 gallon per minute pump, and a 500 gallon or less tank, plus several hundred feet of "large" hose (might be all 3", or might be some small stuff and a bunch of 4" or 5". The big stuff is supply line (hydrant to pumper) and the smaller (3" and down) are attack lines. 3" can go either way. So now a pumper is really a "triple combination" - powerplant - the diesel engine - pump, the 1000gpm or greater pump and hose tender - the fact that it carries both attack and supply hose in some form. If it carries enough of each, then it qualifies (according to the NFPA) as a triple combo. Most big city pumpers will.

In "interface areas" (suburbs with significant borders of wildland or farmland) or rural areas, large amounts of supply hose becomes less of an issue - 1000' of 5" does you no good if the nearest hydrant is 3000' away, so some of their trucks have larger water tanks but then have to carry less hose (due to the weight). If the truck is big enough to still do both, then it might be classified as a quad. I forget the exact number, but I think either 1000 gallons or 1250 gallons is the lower limit to classify as a "tanker", too. Interestingly, big city units carry LESS water, and become dependent on the hydrants. At one point Philly was trying going to pumpers with NO tanks at all.

Now for the truck companies - you can have a rescue "truck", a ladder truck, or a salvage truck. Rescues used to be like Squad 51 from the old "Emergency" tv show - a 1 ton 6-by with a cargo box and storage comparments. Take the same chassis and put a 250 gallon water tank and a small, lawnmower engine powered pump and it's a brush buggy, wildland unit or (in Sapulpa) a QR (quick response). Some places call them mini-pumpers, too, and they can be a lot bigger than a 1 ton. But rescue got more sophisticated (with rope rescues, trench rescue (requires lots of shoring and plywood) and all the hydraulic tools, and all of a sudden rescue trucks start looking like the beer delivery trucks (and some are!).

Then there's salvage - this is the guys with plywood, tarps, buckets and shop vacs. Also likely to have fans for ejecting smoke and saws for cutting vents. That's the traditional "truck" job. Truckies do search and rescue first, then vent, then clean up, and leave the "wet on red" to the engine company crews. BTW, that's the old job of the "hook" companies. Ladders were an afterthought - what happened was things went both ways. The explosion of suburbia meant less 2 and 3 story buildings ("taxpayers" with a store on the 1st floor and apartments above) was exchanged for miles and miles of 1 story (suburban ranch) and thus ladder trucks became irrelevant. So you see things like truck 7 in Tulsa, with lots of compartments (it carried all the fans, tarps, ropes and rescue gear) but no hydraulic ladder or platform. At the other end you have downtown highrises that are too tall for ANY ladder truck. But where ladders work, they are big - and that means lots of room for comparments.

Eventually, ladder trucks got so big that someone tried to put everything on one set of wheels. Most ladders don't carry any water (the ladder is too heavy and makes the truck top-heavy, so the last thing you want is a tank of water sloshing around) and few carry pumps, either. They are dependent on an engine (pumper) sitting next to them to feed them water at high pressure and in high quantity. But by the time you get to 45' long truck chassis with tandem rear axles and 550 hp CAT engines, you realize they CAN carry a pump, and a decent amount of water, too (if not 1000 gallons). Now you get the Quint.

A quint is just a "5 way" combination - engine (propulsion), pump, hose, ladder (usually hydraulic) and rescue. A quint technically has to carry jaws of life and other rescue tools and be able to pump its own water. It doesn't necessarily have to carry its own water, though, especially if it has enough hose to reach a hydrant (remember, that's relative to how far apart the hydrants are). The downside of quints are they're bigger. In old neighborhoods with narrow streets, quints aren't so hot. Then again, in big, spread out suburbia, you can usually put one truck in front of the house, and one pumper at the hydrant (and the pumper brings most of the hose) and now all you need is manpower.

In Tulsa, there's really no reason for the downtown ladders (L-4) to be a quint - pumpers and hydrants are both abundant. Nor should L-7 be a quint - too big for the narrow streets. That's the same reason that E-3, E-5, and E-15 are the short wheelbase smaller types. L-29 and L-30 are perfect candidates for quints, though. Big streets, big buildings (even the single family houses in some spots) and places where the hydrants "thin out", which means your pumpers aren't "next door", they're strung out down several blocks "finding" water, or shuttling. Those are the reasons for having everything you need in "one rig".

quint= M.C.F.D. Ladder (L1 or L2) http://www.americanlafrance.com/interior.asp?n=2010&p=1005 &s=0

 

[PolarBear25]

And it seems like the whole kit and kaboodle is dispatched on every “shortness of breath” call.

All of this talk about what constitutes a “fire alarm” reminds me:

When I was growing up, Midwest City had two fire stations. They had fire trucks that were red – sort of: They had four wheels, a pump a tank, a cab, and this platform across the back where the firemen stood and held on for dear life as they raced about the city streets. The red – sort of – fire trucks could actually be used to put out fires.

Somewhere along the line, and it hasn’t been too many years ago, Midwest City discovered “modern fire apparatus”. I really shudder to see what this “new engine” is going to be. The current incarnation of “Ladder 2” which started out as a quaint happy little pumper truck, is two lanes wide, a block long, and two stories tall and that’s with the ladder stowed. This thing runs on EMS calls in tandem with a “Squad” that is almost as big. Now, I’m not dissing Ladder 2. It’s in the area where the Sheraton and other multi – story hotels are located. It will prove invaluable if one of the hotels manages to catch fire some day. My deal is, someone stubs their toe and both sides of the street are clogged with every conceivable type of emergency vehicle for as far as the eye can see. You'd think that there had been a mass murder. Back in the days of the red – sort of – fire trucks, the private ambulance company which was often the local funeral home (how many ways can you spell conflict of interest) showed up all by itself and they stuffed you into a big Cadillac ambulance and hauled you off to the Hospital. Somewhere between these two extremes, there must be a happy medium.

Note: Some of the terms, “firemen” and “fire truck”, for example, that I have chosen reflect the vernacular of that time.

Yes well Midwest City Fire. Dept. is the only class 1 (I.S.O. 1) F.D. in the State of Oklahoma

If you get A Grass Fire in your back yard you will thank L2 when she shows up to put it out

E3 will be this http://www.americanlafrance.com/interior.asp?n=2026&p=1012 &s=0

 

[tomokla]

Probably off topic, but couldn't let it slide....not really sure about the below comment:

"In Tulsa, there's really no reason for the downtown ladders (L-4) to be a quint - pumpers and hydrants are both abundant. Nor should L-7 be a quint - too big for the narrow streets. That's the same reason that E-3, E-5, and E-15 are the short wheelbase smaller types. L-29 and L-30 are perfect candidates for quints, though. Big streets, big buildings (even the single family houses in some spots) and places where the hydrants "thin out", which means your pumpers aren't "next door", they're strung out down several blocks "finding" water, or shuttling. Those are the reasons for having everything you need in "one rig"."

1. Ladder 4 isn't a quint - Tulsa's resource allocation report puts the larger non-quint ladders (L4 L29 L22 L2) in specific locations that provide access to non-sprinklered high rise buildings.

2. E-3 and E-15 are extremely long wheelbase trucks - apparatus made by E-One known as B.A.R.T.'s - these are some of the longest apparatus in the fleet...3's and 15's have different chassis but are indeed the same long apparatus.

3. You mention that L-7 shouldn't be a quint b/c it is too big for the narrow streets. The quint telesquirts that TFD has been purchasing regularly are quite agile and easy to handle. What else would you propose in this heavily residential area?

Quints are typically distributed based on the need for first-in ventilation. Although they are more then capable of handling pumping tasks, rarely are any quints specifically assigned those functions. L29 is provided a large aerial apparatus due to the high proximity of target hazards and multi-story unsprinklered buildings where the need for a heavy aerial device could come in handy. As you're probably aware a 65' telesquirt doesn't do much for multi-story rescue and certainly has limitations when it comes to aerial master streams.

Just my two cents. Good conversation

A

 

[plaws]

Back in the day ...

Hey, I heard that a hotel fire nearby was a "3 alarm fire". What does the "3 alarm" part mean? I always thought it had to do with how many companies were called to respond.

It was, literally, the third time the chief's aide ran to the box and hooked it. There was usually a telegraph key in the box as well, so the aide would tap out a prefix and then hook the box again. The Fire Alarm Office would then retransmit the box (and whatever code was used for 3rd alarm, often 3-3 or 3-11) on the house circuits. Every box had a number 1 to 5 digits long and every box number had a corresponding card that listed the assignments for that location. The watch officers at the firehouses would then pull the card for that box and look to see if his companies were on the card (see, for example, http://plaws.net/fire/cards.html).


Or did you mean today?

Many big-city departments still have artifacts of the box system in their CADs and as a result, a lot of places only have pre-programmed responses for a given location that go to the 5th alarm because that's all that would fit comfortably on a box card.

How many companies respond at a certain alarm level varies mostly by the size of the department. Smaller departments don't really have pre-determined response patterns based on potential risk ... big departments do. For someone to claim that "a 2nd alarm is always such and such" is crazy since that assignment almost always applies only to one department.


Anyone know, for certain, when OKC pulled out their boxes? I know that as recently as 8-10 years ago they had out-of-service wire trucks at the yard near the State Fair, so my guess would be the 1980s.

 

[car2back]

At my small (less than 20 FFs) Dept, a 2nd alarm means we're requesting a second dept respond for mutual aid, third means a third Dept, etc.

 

[freqscout]

Oops.........

 

[oSutrooper]

I belive that our cad system will give the fire dispatcher a list of untis that are closest to the fire and recommands who and what to send