What does "3 Alarm Fire" mean?

[PolarBear25]

At my small (less than 20 FFs) Dept, a 2nd alarm means we're requesting a second dept respond for mutual aid, third means a third Dept, etc.

That the way it works with the Eastern Oklahoma County Fire Depts..

 

[freqscout]

Sounds like "Alarms" are like "10-codes"!!!

 

[StormCrusader]

...

Anyone know, for certain, when OKC pulled out their boxes? I know that as recently as 8-10 years ago they had out-of-service wire trucks at the yard near the State Fair, so my guess would be the 1980s.

I'll bet someone at the Oklahoma Firefighters Musuem in OKC would know...they have an old logbook for all the Oklahoma City alarm box locations and which units would respond to that location (in addition to a working box system that came from Enid).

 

[KD5WLX]

comments are inline:

Probably off topic, but couldn't let it slide....not really sure about the below comment:

"In Tulsa, there's really no reason for the downtown ladders (L-4) to be a quint - pumpers and hydrants are both abundant.
--I didn't say it was - I have no specific knowledge of particular TFD apparatus - just saying that "downtown" you're going to NEED 2 or 3 engines for manpower, so you don't need a pump on the ladder - save the weight for rescue gear.

Nor should L-7 be a quint - too big for the narrow streets.
Actually, I was arguing for the old TRUCK 7 - there are so few buildings over 2 stories in L7's first in that it hardly needs the boom at all. Most of what they see is done with ground ladders anyway. And I LIVE in L7's first in - I call their station when the idjits park illegally on my street during TU games. L7 goes "on the radio", drives (or tries to) the street, and then calls the fire marshall and the tow trucks.

That's the same reason that E-3, E-5, and E-15 are the short wheelbase smaller types. L-29 and L-30 are perfect candidates for quints, though. Big streets, big buildings (even the single family houses in some spots) and places where the hydrants "thin out", which means your pumpers aren't "next door", they're strung out down several blocks "finding" water, or shuttling. Those are the reasons for having everything you need in "one rig"."

1. Ladder 4 isn't a quint - Tulsa's resource allocation report puts the larger non-quint ladders (L4 L29 L22 L2) in specific locations that provide access to non-sprinklered high rise buildings.
Yep, my argument exactly regarding L4. For L29, maybe. L22 doesn't need a pump, since it has E22 "in house" and there are good hydrants in its part of town. L30, (or is it 32 - I forget - anyway, the one out east on 145th E. ave) should be a quint because of the "spread" of the stations and the areas where there are NOT hydrants.

2. E-3 and E-15 are extremely long wheelbase trucks - apparatus made by E-One known as B.A.R.T.'s - these are some of the longest apparatus in the fleet...3's and 15's have different chassis but are indeed the same long apparatus.
Then TFD screwed up their assignments. I've driven oversized vehicles on the residential streets N. of Admiral -and up there you want something small and maneuverable.

3. You mention that L-7 shouldn't be a quint b/c it is too big for the narrow streets. The quint telesquirts that TFD has been purchasing regularly are quite agile and easy to handle. What else would you propose in this heavily residential area?
A "truck", like T7. You rarely need (or use) the squirt, and everything else can be done with ground ladders when there are few buildings over 2 stories. Pre-plan the 3 story and up "bank buildings" and send L4 or L22 on the first in (which they do anyway, because commercials get 5 & 2 instead of 4 & 1.)

Quints are typically distributed based on the need for first-in ventilation. Although they are more then capable of handling pumping tasks, rarely are any quints specifically assigned those functions. L29 is provided a large aerial apparatus due to the high proximity of target hazards and multi-story unsprinklered buildings where the need for a heavy aerial device could come in handy. As you're probably aware a 65' telesquirt doesn't do much for multi-story rescue and certainly has limitations when it comes to aerial master streams.
You betcha' - that's where a 105' Aerialscope comes in real handy - and I used to drive one with a 1750GPM pump turned by a Cat 550 (not in Tulsa, though)

Just my two cents. Good conversation
A

Ditto. It's good to know there's someone with "local" knowledge to keep us all straight. My experience is from 20 years ago on a suburban district outside KCMO.

 

[KD5WLX]

Hey, I heard that a hotel fire nearby was a "3 alarm fire". What does the "3 alarm" part mean? I always thought it had to do with how many companies were called to respond.

As you've probably figured out, it depends on where you are - small deparments may go from "1 alarm" to "all hands, plus all the neighbors, too" in one step, but here's what I've found to be "typical" around the country.

On a medical or traffic accident, one engine for first responder 1st aid - sometimes 2, especially if it's on a highway or a confirmed entrapment, rollover, or multi-patient. Sometimes called a "still" (although that term has a lot of variants!). Typically the same for a residential "smells and bells" (auto-alarm - when the smoke detector goes off and the homeowner can't figure out why, or when it is tied to the ADT panel and no ones home to answer the phone when ADT calls back).

On a "house" fire (single family residence), 4 engines and a truck, plus a chief of some sort. The reason for 4 engines is manpower - but each one has a specific assignment. 1st to arrive is fire attack. 2nd is water supply (catch the hydrant, and feed 1st in water if they can't get it under control on their tank). 3rd is RIT - that team stays outside, but ready to go in if anyone has a problem. 4th is salvage (or additional manpower until they get it under control). And if it's a "room and contents" (that can be put out on tank water in just a few minutes, usually) then the 3rd and 4th engines get canceled - usually while still enroute. The truck does primary search and rescue, then ventilation, then helps with salvage - typically in that order and not all at the same time.

This is called a "box" alarm from the days when you ran to the corner and pulled a fire alarm box - since dispatch didn't know why it was pulled, they had to assume the worst (and send the commercial assignment).

On commercial, industrial or "large" buildings (either multi-family residential or mansions) you get a 5th pumper and a second truck. The extra pumper allows for a second set of attack lines, since big buildings can translate to big fires and/or long pulls, or if they're delayed alarms (common in "closed businesses" where no one is around at night) then you get a defensive attack (surround and drown) and the extra pumpers feed the ladders elevated streams. The second truck is because larger buildings need more manpower to search, take more fans to vent, and have more junk to salvage.

Second alarms are when the chief gets there and realizes 5&2 isn't going to be enough. The second alarm usually isn't the "full box". For example, FDNY sends 5 and 2 plus a battalion chief on the box, but 3 and 1 on the 2nd (but 2 more chiefs - one to "help" and one for "safety") and depending on the structure type either 2&1 or 2&2 on 3rd alarms and up.

As you can see - few rural departments can even "fill a box" without help, and even (relatively) big suburban departments can barely fill a second without using reserve apparatus and calling in off-duty personnel. But that's what mutual aid agreements are for!

 

[woodyrr]

3rd is RIT - that team stays outside, but ready to go in if anyone has a problem.

"Surround and drown": What a bunch of colorful descriptive terms!

Midwest City has started assigning someone to R-I-T, but what do the letters stand for?

 

[oSutrooper]

"Surround and drown": What a bunch of colorful descriptive terms!

Midwest City has started assigning someone to R-I-T, but what do the letters stand for?

Stand for Rapid Intervetion Team.... 2 In 2 Out rule....Send two in have two out ready to go if sumthing happends

 

[PolarBear25]

Stand for Rapid Intervetion Team.... 2 In 2 Out rule....Send two in have two out ready to go if sumthing happends

The R.I.T. Is almost also the third F.A. in..

 

[oSutrooper]

The R.I.T. Is all most also the third F.A. in..

Sumtimes i could be but in okc as they are rolling ot a fire sum1 clls out that they will be the rit team

 

[plaws]

I'll bet someone at the Oklahoma Firefighters Musuem in OKC would know...they have an old logbook for all the Oklahoma City alarm box locations and which units would respond to that location (in addition to a working box system that came from Enid).

Good point. I haven't been there in many years and at that time, they had a Gamewell box or two, but nothing setup to work that I recall. Guess I need to get up there again!