What is the law regarding FRS/GMRS transmit power

[nd5y]

Type is the type of station.
Service is the radio service a station is licensed for.
Licensee is mentioned because most private land mobile service licenses cover only specific stations on one or more specific frequencies in a specific geographical area and not for communications with other licensees.

 

[DaveNF2G]

§90.417 Interstation communication.

(a) Any station licensed under this part may communicate with any other station without restriction as to type, service, or licensee when the communications involved relate directly to the imminent safety-of-life or property.

IANAL but would not that mean without restriction to type acceptance, service (band/frequency), or license authorized?

The restriction is "any station licensed under this part may..."

A licensed Part 90 station may communicate with anyone by radio under the specified circumstances.

However, there is nothing in the section that contradicts §90.427. It says that a licensed station may communicate with an unlicensed station if the conditions of §90.417(a) are met. It says nothing about programming frequencies "just in case," nor does it give permission for planned unlicensed operation. The section protects a licensee during a defined emergency; it does not provide any shelter for the unlicensed other operator before or after the fact.

 

[WQWG712]

If I use a frequency that is shared by both FRS and GMRS, which rule as far as power and FCC call signs apply?

FRS/GMRS combined channel chart - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[WQWG712]

50 watts may sound like allot compared to 5 watts.
5 watts is a hand held.

Most UHF mobile radios put out 45 watts on average.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

50 watts may sound like allot compared to 5 watts.
5 watts is a hand held.

Most UHF mobile radios put out 45 watts on average.

Show me a commercial (excluding the Chinese stuff) HT that puts out more than 4W on UHF...

The difference comes down to ERP. The shared channels have an ERP limit of 5W. The GMRS only channels have an unlimited ERP (limited only by technology) with a RF power output limit of 50W.

 

[swen_out_west]

Show me a commercial (excluding the Chinese stuff) HT that puts out more than 4W on UHF...

The difference comes down to ERP. The shared channels have an ERP limit of 5W. The GMRS only channels have an unlimited ERP (limited only by technology) with a RF power output limit of 50W.

Old thread but I need to clarify this. Especially after another thread post a couple of days ago.

It apparently is assumed that licensed GMRS is 50 watts and ERP is unlimited, which I was pretty sure wasn't right for fixed stations. Based on that assumption I could run a 50 watt output (assume 1.5 db loss in cable) into a 13 db Yagi and my ERP would be 706.26 watts, holy crap I think the guy who runs the repeater 8 mies away would come throw rocks at my house.

Yes. I have clarified it, as per 95.135.d, For a fixed station output power is limited to 15 watts. That still leaves me with 211 ERP out of that Yagi, which is fine by me, the valley is big but LOS limits me to 15-20 miles anyways. in fact I plan on leaving it on low power (5w) anyways.

Yes, for mobiles it's 50 watts, but a good mobile antenna is only going to be around 5.5 db gain, which based upon the above example leaves me with 125 ERP,

That sounds more reasonable. Sorry for kicking this dead horse, but I just needed to clarify it my head. Feel free to comment if I'm wrong.

On the other side of that coin, some might know the troubles I've had with a couple of illegal FRS simplex repeaters run by 2 idiot licensed Hams. (turns out some other hams in the area actually have encouraged this illegal repeater to keep them away from Ham freqs) By the definition of part 95 for mobiles, I could mount that 13 db Yagi in the bed of my truck and I would still be legal running the full 50 watts, they don't clarify restrictions on mobile antennas, lol. I doubt that the front end of that BaoFeng Uv-5r he's using as the simplex repeater radio could handle 706 watts ERP transmitting on the overlapping GMRS channel (just to stay legal, lol) in wideband (to ensure I overlap) parked across the street 200 feet away. I am being factitious, but the thought has crossed my mind, lol.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Yes. I have clarified it, as per 95.135.d, For a fixed station output power is limited to 15 watts. That still leaves me with 211 ERP out of that Yagi, which is fine by me, the valley is big but LOS limits me to 15-20 miles anyways. in fact I plan on leaving it on low power (5w) anyways.

Except for the fact the definition of a fixed station was omitted from the rules 28 years ago. Part of the current proposal (to modernize and clarify the rules for GMRS) is to remove all mentions of a fixed station due to the fact the definitions and licensing requirments for fixed stations were dropped nearly 3 decades ago.

 

[SnowWalker]

If you want to make it really easy on yourself, move to Canada where you don't need a license for GMRS and where there is little or no radio cops hassling you. The only problem you may run into up here is that it's other radio ops who will be on your butt if you abuse your broadcast freedom.

 

[UPMan]

As of last Summer, no license is required for FRS operation on any of the 22 channels.

 

[swen_out_west]

As of last Summer, no license is required for FRS operation on any of the 22 channels.

But no license does not mean that they are allowed the same limits as a licensed GMRS user. FRS (read: no GMRS license) is limited to 2 watts ERP on any of the 462.xxx frequencies (1-7 and the GMRS channels 15-22). Channels 8-14 are still limited to 500 mWatts. The other big limiting factor is NarrowBand only for non licensed FRS radios.

 

[nd5y]

For complete information on the 2017 FRS/GMRS rule changes see the links at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart.

 

[KK4JUG]

If you want to make it really easy on yourself, move to Canada where you don't need a license for GMRS and where there is little or no radio cops hassling you. The only problem you may run into up here is that it's other radio ops who will be on your butt if you abuse your broadcast freedom.

Let's see.... Spend several hundred dollars and move to Canada to save $70 or spend the $70 and stay put. Which is easiest?

 

[PMHEART6]

Rehash

Sorry for the refresher.

Channel 6? Why

If you are using a blend of radios, why not go with lowest denominator. Hence perhaps why channels 6 or lower.

FRS must be handheld with built in antenna less than max specs.

So any base/mounted unit would t
Won't have 7-14

Frs can't go above .5 watts, so why mix.... Except for the leaders to make one way communications saying to come closer.

I'm a little confused.... Granted,. Not looking extremely hard, joint frs/gmrs radios (I. E. The mobile fixed antenna types) seem to max out at 2watts. Is that a requirement? I sure would like the option of 5watts and all frs channels on the same device.

Another thing i'll need to double check. Most handheld full frs&Gmrs don't support repeaters. Is that along with the 2 Watt max just being cheap, or a replacement?

P. S. If you can use upper frequencies with a repeater, you could use the repeaters license as slaves. Again I'm thinking lower denominator given some are just frs.

Now, if the people using the higher gmrs watts are related, you would only need one license per family.

 

[UPMan]

Revised FRS rules allow 2W on 1-7, 15-22 (and 15-22 adopted into FRS). 7-14 still 0.5W.

FRS cannot (by rule) operate in repeater mode.

 

[n1das]

Revised FRS rules allow 2W on 1-7, 15-22 (and 15-22 adopted into FRS). 7-14 still 0.5W.

FRS cannot (by rule) operate in repeater mode.

I was one of probably many people who recommended this in comments to the FCC regarding the proposed rules back in 2010. My comments were aimed at saying that GMRS must remain a licensed service but the 22-channel bubble packs need to be accommodated somehow. One of the (strong) recommendations I made was that the 22-channel bubble packs if made license by rule should not have any repeater capability.

I suspect another reason this was done was so that FRS under the new rules more or less mirrors Canada's GMRS rules.

 

[UPMan]

I advocated the same position on behalf of Uniden two times in in-person meetings with the FCC Technical guys. AFAIK, Garmin and Motorola were the only two making bubble-packs that were repeater capable (and Garmin actually probably is out of the definition of bubble-pack,as it is a very expensive GPS combo piece).

 

[scan-pa]

FRS and GMRS share frequencies but use different mode and power levels.

FRS is NFM

GMRS is ONLY FM Mode.

GMRS License FM Mode also allows Repeater Access, Mobiles and 50w of power ect.

 

[therealjlh]

That is only half way correct.

FRS is limited 12.5KHz NFM with the following emission types:
F3E, G3E, F2D, and G2D.

GMRS, However is allowed alot more. - Please read the latest rules for Title 47 Part 95

§95.1771 GMRS emission types.

Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed to satisfy the emission capability rules in this section. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these rules.

(a) Each GMRS transmitter type must have the capability to transmit F3E or G3E emissions.

(b) Only emission types A1D, F1D, G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E, R3E, F2D, and G2D are authorized for use in the GMRS.

While F3E (FM wideband 25KHz Analog Voice) is the most common it is not the only mode allowed.


In short FRS and GMRS are very different radio services.

 

[DaveNF2G]

In English (per ITU website):

A1D AM, single channel, data
F1D FM, single channel, data
G1D PM, single channel, data (same result as FM)
H1D SSB full carrier, single channel, data
J1D SSB suppressed carrier (SSSC), single channel, data
R1D SSB reduced carrier (SSRC), single channel, data
A3E AM, single analog channel, voice
F3E FM, single analog channel, voice
G3E PM, single analog channel, voice
H3E SSB full carrier, single analog channel, voice
J3E SSSC, single analog channel, voice
R3E SSRC, single analog channel, voice
F2D FM, single channel digital, data
G2D PM, single channel digital, data

 

[DaveNF2G]

BTW, "data" refers to telecommand and telemetry, not digital voice.

Digital voice modes are not authorized in FRS or GMRS services.