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What is the law regarding FRS/GMRS transmit power

SteveSimpkin

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In English (per ITU website):

A1D AM, single channel, data
F1D FM, single channel, data
G1D PM, single channel, data (same result as FM)
H1D SSB full carrier, single channel, data
J1D SSB suppressed carrier (SSSC), single channel, data
R1D SSB reduced carrier (SSRC), single channel, data
*** A3E AM, single analog channel, voice ***
F3E FM, single analog channel, voice
G3E PM, single analog channel, voice
H3E SSB full carrier, single analog channel, voice
*** J3E SSSC, single analog channel, voice ***
R3E SSRC, single analog channel, voice
F2D FM, single channel digital, data
G2D PM, single channel digital, data
I was very surprised to see that AM and SSB voice modes were allowed on GMRS. I don't believe I have ever seen a GMRS radio capable of those modes though.
 

N4GIX

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I should think I'd annoy a lot of people were I to begin transmitting in USB on any GMRS frequency... :D
 

therealjlh

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I should think I'd annoy a lot of people were I to begin transmitting in USB on any GMRS frequency... :D
I would imagine it would have more impact on FRS users since they are more than likley using 1-7 frs primary channels also FRS can transmit on the main channels but only using 12.5khz so i would imagine an AM signal would drown them out even more.
 

nd5y

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Has there ever been a Part 95 radio that transmits on any of those other emission types?
Except for Garmin's digital data I have never heard of anything but FM being used since the 1970s. Back when Class A and Class B CB (now GMRS) was first created there might have been some AM radios made. I don't know when the current rule containing the emission designators was written or what the original ones were.
 

KB7MIB

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Peoria, AZ.
FRS is NFM

GMRS is ONLY FM Mode.
GMRS licensees can, and do, use NFM. (You can't exceed the authorized bandwidth, but you can most certainly go as narrow as analog FM will allow.) Using NFM can help alleviate interference on GMRS repeater input frequencies from adjacent channel FRS users. Three of the four GMRS repeaters owned by the local users group in the Phoenix, AZ metro area are NFM. Some may argue that coverage area is compromised by going NFM compared to FM, but at least one of those repeaters still covers hundreds of square miles of the metro area due to an advantageous mountaintop location.

As for the other modes, there are no Part 95 certified radios that can do AM or SSB, so, technically, you could not legally use those modes.

John
WPXJ598
Peoria, AZ
 

therealjlh

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As for the other modes, there are no Part 95 certified radios that can do AM or SSB, so, technically, you could not legally use those modes.

John
WPXJ598
Peoria, AZ
Technically speaking you are correct / However, I would think that getting a radio that could utilize these modes, tested and certified wouldn't be a big deal, if such devices even existed.

In any case I just thought that it was note worthy to mention these emission types have been part of the GMRS specific rules for a very long time, at least as long as i can remember anyway.
 

1863650

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I've been looking around here and can't seem to find a definitive answer; I realize the consumer/"bubble-pack" radios would have automatic power limitations on restricted frequencies, but what about a commercial radio, specifically the HT1250?

Here's the situation. I went out and purchased the HT/CD/EX CPS from Moto a few years back, specifically to program readily-available older portables & mobiles, primarily for fellow volunteer firefighters, SAR, and other low-budget public safety folks.

I keep getting folks wanting assorted GMRS & FRS frequencies programmed, including the FRS 467 MHz channels. I mostly just refuse those requests, just about everything with the HT1250 LS+ seems to be wrong for the FRS rules, since, from the specs, 1W is the minimum TX power in low-power mode. Can anyone confirm, with certainty, that Motorola does (or does not) detect & comply with TX limits automatically?

When in doubt, I comply with my most restrictive understanding of FCC regs. At face value, I'm inclined to say "absolutely not" to putting FRS 8-14 on an HT1250. This time, however the requestor *should* know his stuff, he provided me with both his ham & GMRS license numbers, and they're legit. I don't want to say "no" if it's legal to put these on a 1-4W radio if this radio does comply. Thoughts?

Also, just have to say, as a long-time "guest", I've found this forum invaluable for figuring-out what I need, so much so, I've had all my previous questions answered without needing to ask them. This is the first time I haven't found a definitive answer through my searches.
 

mmckenna

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Can anyone confirm, with certainty, that Motorola does (or does not) detect & comply with TX limits automatically?
It will not automatically conform to the FRS rules.
The FRS rules are pretty clear about non-removable antennas, and 1/2 watt maximum.
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations
and
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

The HT1250 and it's variants do not have the FCC Part 95 authorizations to be legal on FRS or GMRS.
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

When in doubt, I comply with my most restrictive understanding of FCC regs. At face value, I'm inclined to say "absolutely not" to putting FRS 8-14 on an HT1250.
You would be correct. If you really want to stick to the FCC rules, even putting the GMRS primary channels as well as the interstitials would not be allowed. Like I mentioned able, the lack of Part 95 certification on that radio would preclude it from use on GMRS.
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/reports/Tcb731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COPY&RequestTimeout=500&tcb_code=&application_id=ByTgpOk62mEOTjfiu82wSw==&fcc_id=AZ489FT4826


This time, however the requestor *should* know his stuff, he provided me with both his ham & GMRS license numbers, and they're legit. I don't want to say "no" if it's legal to put these on a 1-4W radio if this radio does comply. Thoughts?
Ideally someone holding a GMRS license should understand the FCC rules that apply to that license. Apparently he/she either doesn't understand the rules, or is choosing to ignore them.
That goes double for an amateur radio operator. While putting amateur radio frequencies in the radio isn't an issue, and amateur radio operator should be aware of the rules and should be following them.

However, programming GMRS channels (NOT FRS channels) into a Part 90 radio is commonly done. There are those that will say that it meets the "letter of the law". Maybe it does, but the FCC recently put a lot of work into rewriting the GMRS rules, and chose not to change the wording. In my mind that means the FCC thinks the rules are clear enough. But that's just my opinion. The best way to get the answers would be to contact the FCC directly and ask them.


Also, just have to say, as a long-time "guest", I've found this forum invaluable for figuring-out what I need, so much so, I've had all my previous questions answered without needing to ask them. This is the first time I haven't found a definitive answer through my searches.
Well, welcome, thanks for joining us.
 

1863650

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Apr 8, 2019
Messages
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Thank you so much for weighing-in on this, your advice makes sense. I think I've managed to scare-off many of the folks who either aren't authorized or ask about breaking the rules, this is the first customer who's made it this far and still asked for things I said I wouldn't do up-front. I'll let him have his GMRS at his own risk, but no way on the FRS.
 
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