White County changing radio system

[SCPD]

White County

Why don't you guys just sit back and wait to see what White County does with MotoTRBO instead of complaining and hollering "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" because they have decided to use a radio system that doesn't meet APCO-16 or APCO-25 standards. There are many radio systems used by public safety agencies throughout our nation that do not meet and may never meet APCO-16 or APCO-25 standards. We must realize that agencies must do what is best for them operationally within their budgetary constraints and even though there has been a huge push to force agencies to P25 most can't afford this outrageously expensive and overrated technology, so agencies are looking for alternatives such as MotoTRBO and NEXEDGE. Yes, agencies switching to these additional forms of digital technology instead of P25 might make interoperability a little more challenging, but my guess is they will rely on the tried and true during situations where interoperability is really needed and that will be analog conventional radio channels. At least if agencies operating in VHF switch to MotoTRBO or NEXEDGE they will still have the capability to operate on the State Fire Mutual Aid Channel (154.2800 MHz), Statewide Sheriff's Band Channel (154.9050 MHz), VTAC Channels and other VHF analog conventional channels when they need to interoperate with other agenices. The situations that concern me are cases like we see in Jackson County, GA where they have decided to switch to UHF MotoTRBO when all users around them are operating in the VHF or 800 MHz bands. Yes, we have equipment like ACU-1000s and MotoBridge to link voice systems together, but these are only good where the coverage of two or more systems overlap, plus use of these types of gateways just interject another point of failure in our fragile public safety radio communications networks. Don't get me wrong, I use the ACU-1000 on a weekly basis and love the technology and capabilities it provides, but like other technologies it has it's draw backs. I have personally found that a vehicle mounted cross band repeater is the best solution for interoperability between agencies using radios in two different frequency bands who need to talk to each other at the same incident scene.

 

[MTS2000des]

Why don't you guys just sit back and wait to see what White County does with MotoTRBO instead of complaining and hollering "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" because they have decided to use a radio system that doesn't meet APCO-16 or APCO-25 standards. There are many radio systems used by public safety agencies throughout our nation that do not meet and may never meet APCO-16 or APCO-25 standards. We must realize that agencies must do what is best for them operationally within their budgetary constraints and even though there has been a huge push to force agencies to P25 most can't afford this outrageously expensive and overrated technology, so agencies are looking for alternatives such as MotoTRBO and NEXEDGE. Yes, agencies switching to these additional forms of digital technology instead of P25 might make interoperability a little more challenging, but my guess is they will rely on the tried and true during situations where interoperability is really needed and that will be analog conventional radio channels. At least if agencies operating in VHF switch to MotoTRBO or NEXEDGE they will still have the capability to operate on the State Fire Mutual Aid Channel (154.2800 MHz), Statewide Sheriff's Band Channel (154.9050 MHz), VTAC Channels and other VHF analog conventional channels when they need to interoperate with other agenices. The situations that concern me are cases like we see in Jackson County, GA where they have decided to switch to UHF MotoTRBO when all users around them are operating in the VHF or 800 MHz bands. Yes, we have equipment like ACU-1000s and MotoBridge to link voice systems together, but these are only good where the coverage of two or more systems overlap, plus use of these types of gateways just interject another point of failure in our fragile public safety radio communications networks. Don't get me wrong, I use the ACU-1000 on a weekly basis and love the technology and capabilities it provides, but like other technologies it has it's draw backs. I have personally found that a vehicle mounted cross band repeater is the best solution for interoperability between agencies using radios in two different frequency bands who need to talk to each other at the same incident scene.

What I have a problem with are some unscrupulous dealers who give out misinformation and disinformation to their customers, many of which are already cash strapped, using tactics such as the 2013 narrowband mandate, to push sales of often overly complicated radio systems to public safety. I've heard nonsense recited to me personally from some unnamed officials citing some "digital mandate just like the DTV switch" which we all know is NOT TRUE, and they were forced into buying systems that don't do what they are advertised. And truth be told, if a real honest RFP is put out and a neutral (read not being bought and paid for by a vendor of choice) consultation were to occur on many of these systems, it would reveal that all that is often needed in counties like White or Jackson are minor improvements such as additional remote receivers, pre-amplifiers and other infrastructure hardware, and reprogramming and retuning of subscriber radios to support narrowbanding requirements.

Agencies in remote areas often don't need or want trunking, digital or any expensive solution when many are now trying to figure out how to make payroll and keep the lights on. Yet, when some particular vendors come a calling, they are pushing expensive proprietary solutions such as MotoTRBO (often because said customer WANTS but cannot AFFORD the Astro 25 SZOL trunking systems being procured by more affluent agencies in our state) and are telling these customers "yeah, it's digital just like Atlanta and Cobb county bought." and more outright lies such as "you'll be able to get grant money to pay for these"

Oh really? what SAFECOM or Federal and state grants will pay for proprietary SMR radio systems? Let me know, I've got a line on a complete iDEN/Harmony system for sale and I'd love some grant money to buy it so I can take all the Nextel customers soon to be out of service when Sprint turns off iDEN. I'd love to build out a public safety only statewide iDEN system---oh wait none of my fellow scanner enthusiasts would be able to listen in!

 

[RobertsRadio]

White County going MotoTRBO

Yes, I concur with MTS2000des. Agencies really need to be careful because there are radio vendors who are out there misleading customers just to make a big sale. They are convincing agencies to buy digital radio for $600 and up when in most cases all they need to do is reprogram their existing radios for narrowband operation and if they do not have existing narrowband compliant radios they could purchase compliant radios for around $490 each off state contract.

Some of the federal grant requirements that mandated P25 were recently changed to allow the purchase of new narrowband non-P25 compliant equipment because so many agencies have been complaining they do not have the funding to meet the January 1, 2013 deadline. This may help agencies with funding issues when it comes to switching to narrowband, but they must remember they are not mandated to switch to digital unless they are going to make the jump to 6.25 kHz.

 

[W4JLR]

MotoTRBO is not P25, so we will be able to talk to no one in the area except analog VHF. But I have a feeling that our county has been told that analog is not able to be used in the future, only digital. Which is not true.

But as long as we get a subpar system that can't talk to anyone, it's a great deal?

Boy If I had a dime for the people I have talked to that think you MUST go digital on 1/1/2013.................................

 

[W4JLR]

Boy If I had a dime for the people I have talked to that think you MUST go digital on 1/1/2013.................................

Also funny that yesterday we had Hall co respond Mutual Aid and they talked to us on VHF analog system. Must have their analog side of P25 Radio in use, Or they carry a VHF portable with them?

 

[SCPD]

Also funny that yesterday we had Hall co respond Mutual Aid and they talked to us on VHF analog system. Must have their analog side of P25 Radio in use, Or they carry a VHF portable with them?

Could be one of several options:

1. They still have VHF mobile radios in their vehicles for mutual aid and or backup communications like some cities and counties have done who primarily use 800 MHz for day-to-day communications;
2. They still maintain one or more VHF portable radios in their vehicles:
3. Used a gateway, such as MotoBridge which is known as the Georgia Interoperability Network (GIN) in Georgia, ACU-1000 or one of the other interoperability solutions owned by the different agencies and available throughout our State.

All are viable solutions that work very well, but I have been disappointed that more agencies haven't implemented vehicle mounted VHF to 800 MHz cross band repeaters in public safety vehicles throughout our State. This puts interoperability in control of the field user so they have interoperability virtually anywhere they go, is not reliant on the coverage of two or more radio systems and is the most cost effective.

Just my thoughts....

 

[nunyax]

Hearing Mototrbo digital today on the White County SO frequency 159.090. Fire/EMS is still analog.

 

[micco]

Nunyax, I just caught some analog traffic on WCSO band that they where completely switched over to digital but would continue to monitor analog for the rest of the day... I already have a computer setup to stream the mototrbo traffic, just have to find a radio....

 

[W4JLR]

Does anyone know how the Fire dept stuff will work? I know 1st hand their replacing all Minitor IV pagers with MINITOR V's cause of narrowband but all MINITOR pagers that motorola makes are Analog. So hopefully for years to come we will be able to hear at least dispatches.

 

[N8IAA]

I can confirm by the digital noise on the SO dispatch frequency of 159.09 that they've gone trbo
Boo on White County!
Larry

 

[W4JLR]

is their a feed anywhere on the net for CPD, HPD, and WCSO digital traffic yet? I think atleast part of fireband will be analog for quite a while.

 

[jlj31986]

So is White County encrypted or just digital?

 

[N8IAA]

So is White County encrypted or just digital?

Unless you have a pc setup with some sort of digital decoding program, and a spare radio, digital may as well be encrypted on a MotoTRBO system.
Larry

 

[W4JLR]

i have been monitoring the last few days and its seems as if they still have the analog repeater going right up beside the digital repeater (159.090). It is getting bleed over from someone on the TX freq I guess on 127.3 pl since that is what it used to be. I cannot see how it don't inter-fear with the Digital stuff. I am sure its long mt cause its very strong signal I am also running TS so its will only pickup 127.3pl

 

[W4JLR]

Unless you have a pc setup with some sort of digital decoding program, and a spare radio, digital may as well be encrypted on a MotoTRBO system.
Larry

Have you tried to do anything like this?

 

[N8IAA]

Have you tried to do anything like this?

One of the reasons I got a PSR-800 was to monitor those kind of systems. Just have to put together all the other stuff.
Larry

 

[W4JLR]

One of the reasons I got a PSR-800 was to monitor those kind of systems. Just have to put together all the other stuff.
Larry

PM sent

 

[micco]

They are maintaining an analog side for fire pagers indefinitely. The audio quality on the digital side is AWFUL... The rumor right now is that fire/ems will switch to digital in November. I have heard a few SO deputies switch to the analog fire channels to communicate because the digital isn't working in the northern end of the county due to terrain.

 

[W4JLR]

i have been monitoring the last few days and its seems as if they still have the analog repeater going right up beside the digital repeater (159.090). It is getting bleed over from someone on the TX freq I guess on 127.3 pl since that is what it used to be. I cannot see how it don't inter-fear with the Digital stuff. I am sure its long mt cause its very strong signal I am also running TS so its will only pickup 127.3pl

I talked to someone to night who is defiantly in the loop with the 911/EMA office (the people who is doing all the communications decisions) and say in fact the analog is still up on long mtn as well as the digital, He said because that way GSP and DNR can still talk to them. I am sure someday they will have to unplug it (analog repeater) and I asked him if the digital and analog don't inter fear with each other he said apparently not. He said Ft Valley Georgia is bring it up in the AM cause of a band opening. Surely when FD/EMS switch the digital and analog stuff Will be on different Frequencies? But have not heard about the November switch date forgot to ask him. All we hear is roomers also.

 

[W4JLR]

So far CPD, HPD and WCSO made the switch to digital, Just waiting to hear about FD/EMS