Why I am not going DSTAR

[AgentCOPP1]

I agree with a lot of what you said. Icom is a very greedy company and their radios are WAY too overpriced. I also have experience with Icom from the aviation world. I fly ultralight airplanes and Icom is one of the predominating radios. I think it's ridiculous that they charge $500 for a simple aviation-band radio when I can go and buy a multiband Baofeng radio for $50 that does TONS more than their aviation radios. I've built up a lot of resent for Icom, and the fact that they have a pseudo-monopoly on DStar doesn't make it any better. However, if I have the money, I will still probably buy a DStar Icom radio simply because I think that it's such a cool mode.

The voice quality that you mentioned doesn't bother me that much. As long as I can clearly understand what they're saying (as long as their "R" is a 5), I don't care. It's pretty neat that APRS (I don't know if it's actually called APRS on DStar) is also integrated into DStar with a GPS capable radio. As many gripes as I have against Icom, I'll still buy a DStar radio eventually just because it's such a cool mode.

 

[WB4CS]

I think it's ridiculous that they charge $500 for a simple aviation-band radio when I can go and buy a multiband Baofeng radio for $50 that does TONS more than their aviation radios.

I'd agree with everything you just said except quoted above. Keep in mind that the even though the $50 Chinese radio is Type 90 accepted (public service) it really is just designed to be a throw-away ham radio. An aviation radio Type 87/80 has a whole other set of specifications it must meet, which drives up the cost of the radio. Apples and Oranges, kind of. See the bottom of this link for aviation radio requirements.

 

[AgentCOPP1]

I'd agree with everything you just said except quoted above. Keep in mind that the even though the $50 Chinese radio is Type 90 accepted (public service) it really is just designed to be a throw-away ham radio. An aviation radio Type 87/80 has a whole other set of specifications it must meet, which drives up the cost of the radio. Apples and Oranges, kind of. See the bottom of this link for aviation radio requirements.

Throw-away because it's inexpensive? My experience with them have been a bit different. I've beat my Baofeng to hell and back and it still works like a charm. Sure, it certainly doesn't have all of the bells and whistles as the more expensive radios but when it comes down to it, it does the job I need it to do perfectly.

As for the aviation radios, I would assume that the technical requirements for Type 90 would be very fairly similar to 80/87. Of course I'm no expert in radio building, but the fact that a lot of aviation scanners are AT LEAST $100 (remember that no transmitter is involved) tells me that something must be up. But whatever. Perhaps I'm just being grumpy

 

[VK5ZEA]

Here is my Motorola "D-Star" radio in operation... talking through my Motorola "D-Star" repeater.

DV-RPTR + AMBE Board working with a Motorola MCS2000 radio - YouTube
VK5REX B Home Brew D-Star repeater in operation! - YouTube

AFAIK... Icom has a copyright/trademark on the word "D-Star"... but the D-Star protocol is open for all and anyone to use. The AMBE vocoder is proprietary, but so is the vocoder used in P25 and DMR.

I like D-Star... but I also like DMR... and I like FreeDV and Codec2.

 

[N8OHU]

Here is my Motorola "D-Star" radio in operation... talking through my Motorola "D-Star" repeater.

DV-RPTR + AMBE Board working with a Motorola MCS2000 radio - YouTube
VK5REX B Home Brew D-Star repeater in operation! - YouTube

AFAIK... Icom has a copyright/trademark on the word "D-Star"... but the D-Star protocol is open for all and anyone to use. The AMBE vocoder is proprietary, but so is the vocoder used in P25 and DMR.

I like D-Star... but I also like DMR... and I like FreeDV and Codec2.

G'day mate; nice to see you on here and look forward to hearing your melodious voice on the OWDN tomorrow.

 

[AE7Q]

What's the purpose of this thread?

This isn't a blog, this is a forum.

A forum full of d-star users and what you did was kind of trollish.

I operate on all of them, D-star, P25, DMR, and NXDN. Each has their pros and cons. But since you're not interested in hearing any of them and this was just a hit & run post, I won't waste my time.

I agree. This thread reminds me of the BMW owners that go to the Audi forums to rag. For the first five or so years, it's been "D-Star will be dead in a year". Now I notice (in another thread) that the new cry is "D-Star will plateau". I'm so glad some people can predict the future; I can't. I hope other digital formats survive as well.

What's the purpose of the OP's message? To convince others, or himself?

I would love to have a perfect digital solution. Perhaps the digital voice radio of the future will have both D-Star, DMR, and P25 all built in. Unfortunately, it will not happen in my lifetime. Meanwhile, D-Star is fun for me. When something else actually comes along (and is not just promised) that's fun for me, I will switch to it. But not until then.

 

[TLF82]

ICOM radios are the only one that can demodulate the DSTAR signal means that the users maybe getting some ciphering advantages that may violate FCC rules. I am not aware of any scanners that can decode DSTAR signals. So I am wondering what ICOM I going to do about that

Just because you can't go buy a scanner that receives something does not mean it's a "cypher" or "code"....
It's not encryption... It's a mode like SSB.

This is what's wrong with digital in the ham bands. People think it's illegal because they can't just listen it....

 

[K2KOH]

I was not a D Star fan, but I realized you can't say something negative without trying it. So I bought a nice used ID31. Know what? D Star is a blast. I still like my analog rigs, but the Icom has a place in the N2MWE shack. I might go for the ID51 for VHF. I travel a lot, so I will experiment with radios.

 

[Darth_vader]

"I agree. This thread reminds me of the BMW owners that go to the Audi forums to rag. For the first five or so years, it's been 'D-Star will be dead in a year'. Now I notice (in another thread) that the new cry is 'D-Star will plateau'. I'm so glad some people can predict the future; I can't. I hope other digital formats survive as well."

Or the "analogue-FM-and-mediunwave-forever" types who seem to take over just about any of the Ibiquity-related fora just to rag. I've had to deal with more than a few of those types, myself. For nearly the last decade it's been nothing but "H.D. Radio will be dead within a year" from the same couple dozen or so posters. (For the most part, the "H.D. Radio" board on RD is nothing BUT that!)

 

[BamaScan]

I also don't like the fact that only Icom is endorsing D-Star. Even though it is not one, it looks like a monopoly. Why is it that no other manufacturer is jumping on the band wagon?

Looking at the user cost, the D-Star-equipped gear is way too expensive.

See here. D-STAR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Several of your points are right about cost and not being able to modify the codec.

Keenwood makes DStar Radios.

Kenwood D-STAR equipment[22] Transceivers: Kenwood TMW-706S: 2 m / 70 cm dual band digital voice mobile transceiver. Power up to 50 W.
Kenwood TMW-706: 2 m / 70 cm dual band digital voice mobile transceiver. Power up to 20 W.

I have been told that Alinco also makes DStar Radios but they are for Japan only.

I know for a fact that there is a Non Icom DStar Repeater in Madison , Alabama that has been working for years.

DStar was started in Japan and Icom has a big footprint in Japan is why Icom has more DStar Radios. The Intercon Group in Texas has done a ton of work on DStar. My home state of Alabama has more DStar Repeaters than any other state.

The DV Dongle made by Inet Labs is what I would recommed anyone to buy before they get a handheld or mobile radio. The DV Dongle allows you to "Surf" all of the repeaters and users and Reflectors. By "Surfing" you can see what is active and jump arround and see who is on quicker than being dependent on a repeater close to you.

DStar has it's advantages and disadvantges like everything else. One huge advantage is being able to send large paper files over the air. It's like someone once told me, " It's another tool you have in the tool box".

 

[AK9R]

The Kenwood TMW-706 was an Icom ID-800 that was badged as a Kenwood. Kenwood did not import that radio to the U.S.

Alinco has their own flavor of digital communications, but I don't think it is D-STAR compatible..

 

[rchapman4697]

Has anyone seen how expensive the DVDONGLE is: It cost more than a radio!

 

[AE7Q]

Has anyone seen how expensive the DVDONGLE is: It cost more than a radio!

I've had D-Star radios since 2006, but I've never seen the point of the DvDongle. Probably that is because I think amateur radio is about radio communications.

In my opinion, the DvDongle is great if one thinks amateur radio is about talking over the Internet.

 

[N8OHU]

Has anyone seen how expensive the DVDONGLE is: It cost more than a radio!

Sure have, and I own two of them despite the cost; I use one as part of a digital to analog bridge and the other is carried in my truck with my laptop for use when there are no D-Star repeaters available. I also own an IC-91A, ID-880H and two DV-RPTR V1 boards, one of which has the add on AMBE module.

 

[BamaScan]

I've had D-Star radios since 2006, but I've never seen the point of the DvDongle. Probably that is because I think amateur radio is about radio communications.

In my opinion, the DvDongle is great if one thinks amateur radio is about talking over the Internet.

The DV Dongle gives you more control vs having a radio in front of you. The DV Dongle allows you to see all of the repeaters and what is going on. I can jump in and listen without anyone knowing I am there. It would be hard and impossible to program all of the repeaters in the radio. I have even used DV Rats and had some good chats without interfering with a net that was going on. If I had to do it over again The DvDongle would be my first purchase over a radio.

The DV Dongle allows me to control what I would like to listen to. I am not stuck on a repeater listening to a borring conversation. There are only 3 Dstar Repeaters that I can hit with 160 watts and a beam so the Dongle is my first choice. The DStar crowd is a cleaner and nicer group of people you don't get a bunch of key up on the repeaters vs analog repeaters always ketting keyed up.

 

[VK5ZEA]

The DV Dongle can be used for more than just talking via the internet... it can be used to decode D-Star RF transmissions and also used with client software to generate D-Star audio that you can transmit. Build you own D-Star radio. Some people are into homebrew... some just like to talk. I've always considered a ham radio licence as a licence to experiment with radio.

D-Star Client Software Demonstration - YouTube

no, It's not cheap... but if you want to experiment with D-Star.. it's a great tool.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)



Not sure where you come up with the $3k figure, my club had one of the first D-Star systems in Alberta. It cost somewhere between $10k-15k for the complete stack, this included 145MHz, 440MHz, 1.2GHz voice and 1.2GHz Data. This price includes a duplexer/multicoupler for the 1.2GHz voice/data, although we had spare duplexes for the V/UHF repeaters. After all that, we see very little use here on V/UHF and zero use of the 1.2GHz side., voice OR data.

Myself, I will not be on D-Star, I have not liked Icom gear for a long time, and have no intention to buy D-Star radios. Someone else stated that the codec is propriatry, well guess what? So is the codec used in DMR, and P25.

The OTA protocol for all three is published, and all are being used on the ham bands. I like what I see with DMR, linking the TRBO repeaters is simple, and there are atleast half a dozen companies making tier 2 subscriber equipment now, all of which, for amateur radio are usable on networks like DMR-MARC ect.

As the VP for my club, I am slowly pushing to put up a DMR repeater and to have it linked to DMR-MARC, or some other IP linked network. Sadly we have to upgrade our Internet connection as we only upload at approx 750 KB/s. being in Canada, and not directly in the city, we are having to look at a P2P microwave link. At our main repeater site we have a complete D-Star stack, and a separate analog repeater system that has echo link and IRLP, plus our club station has 4 PCs that are online.

Once Internet is solved, I hope to put up the first DMR repeater in Alberta at our main repeater site, and then at an out of town site put up a second DMR repeater and have UHF DMR coverage from +/- 50km north of Edmonton, to around Reddeer.

My hope and vision is that other groups will put up a couple of UHF DMR repeaters to finish covering HWY 2 from south of Reddeer to hopefully somewhere south of Calgary! Oh plans plans plans...

Well things have changed...

Almost a week ago I bought a second hand IC-92AD, although it is not here yet, I am some what looking forward to the learning curve.

During the flooding in southern Alberta this spring, we used DStar for some of our comms into 2 of the effected area, and we are looking at how to utilize DStar during disasters. It is not perfect, but has potential. ASSuming there is Internet available to link repeaters.

I still do not care for Icom radios but they are the only game in town so it is what it is.

Ultimately I still want to bring DMR to Alberta, and get a DMR repeater up and running in Edmonton, but have succumbed to getting on DStar.


Sent from an unknown place...

 

[WB4CS]

During the flooding in southern Alberta this spring, we used DStar for some of our comms into 2 of the effected area, and we are looking at how to utilize DStar during disasters.

Out of curiosity, why would a digital mode that not everyone has access to be used during a disaster? Were there also analog FM nets that were active during the same disaster?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Out of curiosity, why would a digital mode that not everyone has access to be used during a disaster? Were there also analog FM nets that were active during the same disaster?

Oddly enough DStar was the only reliable mode coming out of Canmore. And although there was HF and analogue FM nets, DStar was a better quality link to Medicine Hat.


Sent from an unknown place...

 

[VE7WV]

Oddly enough DStar was the only reliable mode coming out of Canmore. And although there was HF and analogue FM nets, DStar was a better quality link to Medicine Hat.

Interesting. Not wholly surprising but interesting!

Its early days for my evaluation of DMR but I've been impressed so far. We are fortunate to have two UHF repeaters co-located, one analogue one DMR so we can get a good sense of whether digital is buying us anything. We see an increased zone of high quality / high clarity communications reach over analogue. In time we'll do some distance testing with directional antennas.

VHF analogue FM is ubiquitous and that's a strength to be sure... but that doesn't mean we need to be limited to that band and mode.