Why use commercial radios on Ham bands

[W4TF]

As a paid FF/EMT I use a XTS5000 every third day and am issued a XTS2500 as a take home radio. I have been a ham for 22 years and in the past have had MT1000's as well as HT1000's and to be honest they are in my humble opinion just too much of a hassle to be a good radio for the typical ham. I wouldn't even dream of using an XTS series for Ham use as the things are just too big and heavy and a pain to have programmed, with that being said I get a laugh at guys who have the data bust enabled to sound cool on the repeater which is irritating as hell to listen to so I typically just use my VFO and move to another repeater. I guess I'm curious to a few remarks about going on emergencies and how nice and loud the audio is which I agree is a big plus but the question is are these comments being made by vollies with a local agency or are they hams and if they are hams what do you do at these "emergencies"??? Just curious??

73's......Ed KC4ZGK

I believe they are referring to volunteer communication events that amateurs typically participate in (marathons, parades, etc...).

I also carry a dept issued XTS5000 and love it enough that I also use Motorola gear for ham use. The caveat is, the radio that I use for amateur use must have the "FPP" feature enabled to allow me to program the radio from the keypad and not have to run to the pc/laptop all the time to make changes. My favorite radio right now is my APX7000 hands down! Slim, light, uhf/vhf in one unit, with P25 functionality built-in.

 

[MTS2000des]

As a paid FF/EMT I use a XTS5000 every third day and am issued a XTS2500 as a take home radio. I have been a ham for 22 years and in the past have had MT1000's as well as HT1000's and to be honest they are in my humble opinion just too much of a hassle to be a good radio for the typical ham. I wouldn't even dream of using an XTS series for Ham use as the things are just too big and heavy and a pain to have programmed, with that being said I get a laugh at guys who have the data bust enabled to sound cool on the repeater which is irritating as hell to listen to so I typically just use my VFO and move to another repeater. I guess I'm curious to a few remarks about going on emergencies and how nice and loud the audio is which I agree is a big plus but the question is are these comments being made by vollies with a local agency or are they hams and if they are hams what do you do at these "emergencies"??? Just curious??



73's......Ed KC4ZGK

Pain to have programmed? Most of us who own LMR radios also own the software and cables, in fact I'd dare say Astro 25 CPS is easier to setup and more flexible than most hammy software like RT Systems.

I can drag and drop a complete codeplug from one XTS radio to another in about 50 seconds (depending on the speed of the PC it's running on). We are talking over 400 conventional channels, multiple scan lists, MDC call lists, etc. You can even drag and drop between mobile and portables in the same family (e.g. an XTS2500 can be D&D into any Astro 25 product in the same RF band like an XTL5000).

Maybe you're referring to the old Genesis radios like your MT1000 which needs out of production software ans a DOS computer. Most of us have long upgraded to supported radios. I have a subscription for my CPS, free updates are on my MOL account. Runs on my modern computers.

Big and bulky? I'm sorry but most ham radios are too small and more complicated to operate. I've got an FT-8800R in my car, it's the most confusing radio to operate, each key has two or more functions, they aren't clearly labeled (and no backlighting for night use), and the menu system is illogical. With my LMR gear, I can customize the keys to only what I use or need in the software. Can't do that with most ham radios.

As far as the use of MDC, some people use it as a form of selective calling because they don't want to hear all the repeater kerchunkers, repeater ID's and other distractions, and you can see who is talking.

Oh, and if you were using a radio with MDC, it will mute the data bursts. Too bad most ham gear is stuck in the 1970's to make these features available- Kenwood tried in in the 1980s with their DCS (not to be confused with DPL) but long abandoned it. MDC1200 is available on non-Motorola radios. I wish some ham rig would add this capability, it's a really useful feature for selective calling.

But feel free to QSY if it bothers you that much...:lol:

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)

My TK-x80 portables I can program. I have cables and software. My HT-1000 I will need to make one change when we do a pair swap between 2repeaters, one of which I will never use with the HT-1000.

I use my commercial gear at public SERVICE events. Some of them are in high noise environments. As a result my ham gear stays home or is there as a hand out radio if someone needs a radio.

Where I live nobody uses MDC at all, and none of my commercial gear is set up to send it. It's very annoying, and I have no use for it, on amateur repeaters or on the LMR frequencies that I use. Where I live the ham repeaters that are around are 'stable' in the sense that things very rarely change and the repeaters around have been up for years and the new ones will be around for the long term.

I agree that there are valid reasons to both use LMR gear on the ham bands, and there are valid reasons to not use LMR gear on the ham bands. It all comes down to personal preference and the enviroment one operates in.

MTS2000DES I completely agree with your assessment of the FT8800, very complex radio, and menu system. My TK760hg is nice in that ALL buttons besides the power button, can be custom assigned to what the individual needs/wants/prefers. This also goes for the miniature, do all ham portables.

 

[902]

The art in programmable equipment is to take an extremely complex piece of equipment, then program it to be intuitive and simple to its operator without taking away any of the complex features. You can make this as simple or difficult to use as you'd like.

 

[LtDoc]

I think this thread has turned into a "Mine's bigger than yours" thingy. If a particular type of radio is available to you, if it has the features you find useful, and it meets the required specs, then why not use it? Another qualifier in that is cost of use. It would be nice (sometimes) to have all of the features available on several different 'types' of radios, but are you willing to pay for those 'features'? If you are, great. If a typical 'ham radio' will satisfy your requirements without all those 'bell-n-whistles' then that's great too. After that, it starts to sound more like a justification rather than anything else. Anything wrong with using a radio that has a dual purpose? Nope. Any good reason to use such a radio if you don't also have a 'dual purpose'? Nope.
Before people complain too much, I do use a 'commercial' radio on VHF/UHF. It does serve a dual purpose cuz I'm both a ham and do public service stuff too. If I wasn't involved with the public service stuff I doubt if I would have that particular radio. Hey, it was cheap! If someone has a 'problem' with the brand of radio I happen to use that's okay, I'll just say it's something else to 'protect' their sensibilities. Whoo-pee...
- 'Doc

 

[Spankymedic7]

Pain to have programmed? Most of us who own LMR radios also own the software and cables, in fact I'd dare say Astro 25 CPS is easier to setup and more flexible than most hammy software like RT Systems.

I can drag and drop a complete codeplug from one XTS radio to another in about 50 seconds (depending on the speed of the PC it's running on). We are talking over 400 conventional channels, multiple scan lists, MDC call lists, etc. You can even drag and drop between mobile and portables in the same family (e.g. an XTS2500 can be D&D into any Astro 25 product in the same RF band like an XTL5000).

Maybe you're referring to the old Genesis radios like your MT1000 which needs out of production software ans a DOS computer. Most of us have long upgraded to supported radios. I have a subscription for my CPS, free updates are on my MOL account. Runs on my modern computers.

Big and bulky? I'm sorry but most ham radios are too small and more complicated to operate. I've got an FT-8800R in my car, it's the most confusing radio to operate, each key has two or more functions, they aren't clearly labeled (and no backlighting for night use), and the menu system is illogical. With my LMR gear, I can customize the keys to only what I use or need in the software. Can't do that with most ham radios.

As far as the use of MDC, some people use it as a form of selective calling because they don't want to hear all the repeater kerchunkers, repeater ID's and other distractions, and you can see who is talking.

Oh, and if you were using a radio with MDC, it will mute the data bursts. Too bad most ham gear is stuck in the 1970's to make these features available- Kenwood tried in in the 1980s with their DCS (not to be confused with DPL) but long abandoned it. MDC1200 is available on non-Motorola radios. I wish some ham rig would add this capability, it's a really useful feature for selective calling.

But feel free to QSY if it bothers you that much...:lol:

Well said.

 

[WA9TED]

My two cents

I would say the facts of the matter is this.

First off, no one running Motorola gear thinks they're above anyone. Check out the Motorola Amateur Radio Club in Shuamburg, IL. (Point being made, there wouldn't be a club dedicated to Ma-M operating if that was the case) So who is ever saying that they're morons can just take that moronic thought out of their head.

Second, Like hams have loyalties to manufactures (I.E. Icom-Alinco) others do as well to Motorola. For those of us whom are moto gurus, there becomes a learning curve to the brand and models themselves. Like a ham wishing to learn CW. (Some of us who use MDC think the dahs and didits are annoying!). It becomes a more specific interest to the hobby and we collect the models, because believe it or not some models are very rare an worth a pretty penny on ebay. (BTW, Still haven't seen a rare Yaseu yet!) Once again, point being made, like hams run PSK-31 or AM on HF for an example, it's just an niche in the hobby and one isn't better than the other.

I honestly think some people feel threatened by the learning curve that comes with commercial gear, so because they don't understand it, it's immediately stupid to use it, which isn't what the hobby is about at all. There is no right or wrong way to operate (inside the FCC guidelines that is!) And as a side note I'd say it's safe to say most hams that use commercial gear worked with it for a living at one point or another, which makes sense they would want to use it for amateur.

And yes, I have a Yaseu FT-60 that I use as a backup to my MTS 2000 and if the battery dies on the MTS I need to put an oven mitt on and keep a fire extinguisher handy after about 5 minutes of using the FT-60! (But still a great radio, I love it)

As for MDC, depending on where you live, more than likely there is a repeater (probably on UHF) that is ran by a moto nut that allows it. (so have your fun with MDC, MODAT, FLEETSYNC, STAR or whatever there!!!!) Some of us hams find noises from radios to be a quirk. Most people won't ever understand it!

 

[WA9TED]

Oh and one more post before I get too windy, like everyone has been saying, to solve the lack of a VFO issue, consider a JT 1000 with government front panel programming. If you can buy it right, they may be a little over 100 dollars on eBay in great condition and that will give you a VFO on the fly and is probably cheaper than an FT-60 new. Or if you want to splurge, find a XTS 2500 or 5000 flashed with FPP. Probably more around $700 to $1200 depending on condition. And for those of us who have a portfolio, there is a FPP flash for the APX 7000 which will also give you dual band. As of now they are pretty rare used, but your looking around 3 to 4 bands.

 

[alexsystems]

Addition

I know this is an old thread but I figured I'd add to it because I feel as though owning a commercial radio for ham use I could contribute my experience and possibly help someone make a decision. I am the proud owner of an APX7000XE VHF 136-174MHz /UHF 380-470MHz R1 with the 3 year cover any damage warranty, bought it brand new to my specs. And I love it. In terms of using it on the ham bands it works beautifully. I purchased mine because I use a radio at work and part of my job is maintaining a commercial repeater system and I wanted a radio type accepted for commercial use and I wouldn't have to carry a ham radio as well for ham use. Overall it's definitely different than a standard ham focused handheld. I have a TH-F6A, it's a great nice sized radio and has the ability to scroll through frequencies and be more easily programmed on the fly away from a computer. Where as with the Motorola FPP you have to have dummy stations and change the frequencies. Since I can't use the kenwood TH-F6A on commercial frequencies legally, I shelved it, and have really enjoyed using my Motorola. I actually find myself using it more often than I did my kenwood although the kenwood is a great radio, I don't know why, maybe I just have a radio with me more often now so I get the urge to participate in nets and listen where as before at work I only had a UHF commercial radio 450-512MHZ which didn't cover the 70cm band. Anyways, if you can afford it go for it, and if you don't like the MDC-1200 sounds you can always shut them off on a per channel basis. At work we have to have our radios ID with MDC but for all of the ham channels I have programmed it, the MDC is shut off. Bottom line, it's all about what you want and what works for you, some people have no need for a commercial type accepted radio so a $40 baofeng would be great, some people like the 100MHz/200MHz/400MHz/All Band Rx and a TH-F6A would be great. I guess bottom line look at your needs or wants are and aim for that, because the APX is a bit overkill but it was a wet dream and I'm happy with it. I genuinely hope this was helpful.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I've found that I can't stand a VFO knob in a mobile environment. I've slowly pushed all my amateur radio gear out and swapped for commercial gear. Most of it has been surplus gear (much of which narrowbands). Some would say, there goes your VFO or there goes being able to travel. The kicker, I regularly drive most of the northern half of Texas, parts of New Mexico and Colorado. I only program a repeater into my FT2900 when I find traffic (that wants to talk back)...3 years,120k miles and my FT2900 has 11 channels programmed. Why bother with a VFO when I could program my PM400 with a handful of the common splits and a handful of the common PL's plugged in for MPL?

Since this thread was really last updated, I've noticed that more and more digital repeaters (that aren't D*Star) have popped up...most of them are commercial protocols which require commercial radios to use.

Many people complain of programming commercial radios...yea it can be a pain but it's often more straightforward of a process than programming amateur equipment with a computer.

Personally, I haven't found another radio who's squelch circuitry matches that of Motorola's (even the older DOS programmed stuff). My amateur gear goes crazy when there isn't a RX PL set in towns...my Icom and Kenwood LMR gear is okay but it still doesn't come close to that of my M1225s. While, I own mostly older radio gear (nearly all of it cost me nothing to acquire), I've found they often perform better than amateur gear. Have better audio circuitry which works better in a noisy environment before an external speaker is actually needed. There is something about holding a Motorola microphone in your hand that just isn't there in a Yaesu microphone.

Acquiring commercial gear is often easy and not too expensive. Much of the gear offers accesory outputs that just aren't as commonly found in the amateur world. The mini-DIN is a "standardized" connector for packet use however, anyone ever notice that it is non-existent on single band radios...the stuff you'd sacrifice for a digipeater or packet only rig?

I also seem to remember a few articles and some equipment left behind by my grandfather (W5PKY, SK) that if you wanted to play on FM repeaters in the early days of the FM revolution, you really only had two options...buy something that said Motorola or buy something that said GE. Not to mention currently, there isn't much of a selection of 33 cm gear that isn't Motorola or Kenwood (and nearly all of it has to be hacked in some form or another).

In the end, it really comes down to personal preference. I prefer the KISS operation, programmable function buttons, better squelch circuitry, and equipment that is overall just built better than much of the amateur gear.

 

[gewecke]

W5PKY, Well said.

73,
n9zas

 

[cmdrwill]

W5PKY, Well said.

73,
n9zas

Exactly....

Three Spectras in my work truck on Ham,

 

[robertmac]

I got into ham radio for ham radio. I really don't care about how they look as long as they have the functions I need. And I don't need them for out of band work. Most of my radios can be programmed from the mic.. They have taken abuse, heat and cold for over 15 years and still work as well as they did when new. And they are all amateur radios. Some are tri band without costing an arm and a leg. They are a lot more adaptable to different operating needs and uses. Tried a kenwood HT but this did not work as well as my other ham HT. But that is my use as an amateur radio operator.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I got into amateur radio because I thought it would be fun, my grandfather was a ham and I even managed to obtain his call. However, growing up there was always at least 2 /\/\ branded microphones in my father's company trucks (granted one was a carphone) and my grandfather left behind a bunch of GE and /\/\ branded stuff when he passed. I might add this however.

For my 4 amateur radios (two HTs and two mobiles) I've paid $570 total. For my 112 commercial radios (mix of UHF HT's [all 25 narrowband], low band mobiles, 900 MHz mobiles, VHF mobiles [only 3 out of the 14 narrowband], and UHF mobiles [13 out of the 26 narrowband]) I've paid a total of $730. It's just an added plus that I get to configure at least one function button one each one. Modifying other gear (or building your own) is just another part of the hobby. When I spend on average $6.51 on a commercial radio versus $142.50 on an amateur radio…why would I pursue acquiring amateur gear?

 

[scannermanner1]

I got into amateur radio because I thought it would be fun, my grandfather was a ham and I even managed to obtain his call. However, growing up there was always at least 2 /\/\ branded microphones in my father's company trucks (granted one was a carphone) and my grandfather left behind a bunch of GE and /\/\ branded stuff when he passed. I might add this however.

For my 4 amateur radios (two HTs and two mobiles) I've paid $570 total. For my 112 commercial radios (mix of UHF HT's [all 25 narrowband], low band mobiles, 900 MHz mobiles, VHF mobiles [only 3 out of the 14 narrowband], and UHF mobiles [13 out of the 26 narrowband]) I've paid a total of $730. It's just an added plus that I get to configure at least one function button one each one. Modifying other gear (or building your own) is just another part of the hobby. When I spend on average $6.51 on a commercial radio versus $142.50 on an amateur radio…why would I pursue acquiring amateur gear?

What do you do with 112 commercial radios??

 

[profiledescent]

What do you do with 112 commercial radios??

Radios are good. More radios are better. To many radios is just about right.

Same with horsepower and guns.

I don't recommend this philosophy with women.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

What do you do with 112 commercial radios??

Well it's a mix of VHF/UHF and 900 gear. The VHF mobiles generally get used or given to other hams for digis. The look some hams give you when you hand them a 110W spectra set up to run without a control head with 144.39 plugged in, all they need to do is power it and add a tnc, is priceless. The UHF mobiles generally get distributed amongst family members for GMRS as well as the HTs occasionally. Some of the radios get used for repeaters or even link radios.

For many it's just a case of I haven't figured out what I'm doing with them...yet.

 

[gewecke]

Originally Posted by scannermanner1
What do you do with 112 commercial radios??

Much more fun than collecting 112 different postage stamps, or rocks, or bugs!

73,
n9zas

 

[KG4INW]

I haven't counted exactly how many pieces of LMR equipment I have starting to pile up but it's probably not far from that number either! Most of it I received for next to nothing (or exactly nothing) and either sell them or use them for parts.

I like having a mix of LMR and purpose-built amateur gear, which gives me the best of both worlds but I tend to use the LMR radios the most.