Why use commercial radios on Ham bands

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)



Well my TK-280 has about 6 zones in it. It covers my whole province. Local, north, south, simplex, Local ARES, and work. I still have lots of channels left if I have to add anything that is not already programmed. My TK-380 has the following zones, local, north, south, simplex, ARES, and province wide linked system, both normal and reversed. Again it still has plenty of channels left for anything else I need to add.

I am slowly replacing my hammy crap radios with all commercial. Much more versatile for my situation. And the audio is much much better than my ham-crap radios.

I get what you're saying, sure if there's enough memory channels you could program just about every repeater pair and simplex frequency. And, I'll also agree that the audio quality is better. I'll even agree that commercial rigs are better at rejecting intermod. To each their own and if it works for you that's great. I travel a lot so when I'm on the road I like to be able to scan the whole band and put in repeater splits/PL tones on the fly. The "ham-crap" has worked great for me for 20 years, I'll stick with it

I totally agree with you. Any travelling I do is usually in province, so I am covered that way, and when I do go elsewhere I pre-load for where I am going.

I do a lot of volunteering, and they tend to be high noise events, so my commercial gear is great for that. I have found that I only use ham gear mobile, mostly because my v71a gives me options that commercial gear does not. X-band is probably the one feature available in ham gear that I use frequently that my commercial radio does not give me.

Portable radio wise though I am commercial gear all the way.

 

[mmckenna]

Why I don't use commercial gear on the ham bands:

Commercial gear:
"Hey Bob, how's it going today?"
"Hey Brandon, doing great. I noticed that I can pick you up really well on reverse. How about we get off of the repeater and go to simplex? I'll meet you over on 147.550."
"Okay Bob, sounds good. I don't have a VFO on my radio and I only have the local repeaters programmed in. Give me a few minutes to pull over (I'm driving), get out my laptop, and program in that frequency."

OR

Ham Gear:
"Hey Bob, how's it going today?"
"Hey Brandon, doing great. I noticed that I can pick you up really well on reverse. How about we get off of the repeater and go to simplex? I'll meet you over on 147.550."
"Okay Bob, I'll meet you there." (Hit VFO, dial in the frequency, DONE.)

You could substitute a different repeater for the simplex frequency in this scenario. Bottom line, I want access to the whole ham radio band on the fly not only what channels I have programmed into my radio.

Hmm, good point, but most modern LMR radios have hundreds of channels. The XTL in my truck has something around 800 channels, so putting in all the simplex frequencies in the 2 meter band isn't an issue at all. That still leaves plenty of room for a few hundred repeaters. The CDM in my wife's car does 160 channels, still plenty of room.

The Kenwood TK290 I use has FPP enabled, so I can dial in frequencies on the fly.

 

[Spankymedic7]

Commercial radios for Amateur Radio Service

I've always preferred commercial gear over "amateur" gear, for the following reasons:

- Rugged design. Doesn't get hot when operating for extended period of time, even on high power. Commercial gear can really take a beating...not that I abuse my gear, I take very good care of it. However, in the event that I accidentally drop a radio, or if a radio gets banged into something, I don't have to worry about anything. I've dropped amateur gear, and ocassionally that meant the demise of that particular radio. MIL-SPEC really means MIL-SPEC. I've owned both, and am currently liquidating most of my amateur gear. Amateur gear simply doesn't hold a candle.

- Features not available in amateur gear. P25, MOTO TRBO, NEXEDGE are just some of the few operating modes available on commercial gear. D-STAR and whatever it is that Yaesu just released is all that's available with amateur gear.

- Esthetically pleasing design. This is more of a personal opinion, but I think that my commercial gear just has a nicer look than my amateur gear. It screams "reliability".

I understand that the number one gripe is the lack of a vfo. I've read the examples of not being able to switch to a different frequency. That being said, I can say that it has happened to me too. However, what has never happened is for the other operator(s) not being able to switch to a frequency that I DO have programmed in my radio.

Bottom line is that the great debate is very preferential, it's all up to the end user. That's what makes Amateur Radio so great...choice.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I am slowly replacing my hammy crap radios with all commercial. Much more versatile for my situation. And the audio is much much better than my ham-crap radios.

Which demonstrates the real reason why some hams use commercial radios - pure snobbery!

 

[rescuecomm]

Which demonstrates the real reason why some hams use commercial radios - pure snobbery!

I guess its not going to help to suggest that most 2m/440 portable ham radios are priced to sell in a very competitive market. The high end is about $600.00 with the low end about $50.00. Compare with the public safety/military market that high ends at $5000.00 with the low end at about $150.00. Comparisons of a radio priced new at $2500.00 with one priced new at $150.00 should show the more expensive unit being better in a number of areas. (One would hope so!)

I find most persons are comparing ebay public safety radios selling at a fraction of the new price with new amatuer market radios. Not really apples to apples.

I use some of each.

My two most used radios are an Icom F3061 and an F4061 bought used at about 1/2 new price. I am still in the rescue squad so I need Part 90 stuff. When I travel, I use the V82 and U82 to keep from packing a laptop. My backcountry radio is an old Icom W32A which I can use to repeat through the truck radio in fringe areas. It uses the old BNC antenna connector so putting on a longer antenna is a cinch.

I just can't seem to save up the money for a Harris XG100 or a Thales Liberty. Wife needs a car down payment first. LOL..

Bob

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)

I am slowly replacing my hammy crap radios with all commercial. Much more versatile for my situation. And the audio is much much better than my ham-crap radios.

Which demonstrates the real reason why some hams use commercial radios - pure snobbery!

Actually, it has nothing to do with snobbery, and that is pretty presumptuous for you to assume that about me. After being licensed for 20 years, I have come to find out what does and does not work for ME. I have my clearly stated reasons for using commercial gear, and I stand by what I have said about amateur portable equipment. It is poorly made, lacks audio output and like most of the amateur portable equipment, it does not last for me. I have strategically bought my commercial gear o minimize the need for programming, and while it does lack a VFO does exactly what I need it to do.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Your mode of expression demonstrates contempt, or lack of respect at best, for your fellow ham operators and maybe even for the hobby. You write like someone who feels they had to stoop to being a ham because the services that use "real" radios don't allow casual chit-chat.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.600 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

You misunderstand, I have nothing but respect for the hobby, my contempt is for Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu and Alinco. They make cheap gear that does not, for the most part, work for how I use my gear, and what I expect it to be capable of. Wether it is radios that have very low audio power, or batteries that lack real capacity, or audio accessories that are poorly made. Example is my first Icom radio in the '90s that had a wimpy 180mw of audio, the typical Icom speaker mic with a .5" speaker that could not be heard in a light wind, nevermind in a parade with bands playing. Yaesu VX-170, great radio, crappy speakermic. Or my TH-79ad that in 6months the case cracked, and I had to Zip tie the bottom of it to keep the battery from falling out. It is not contempt for my fellow operater, but for the gear that is so cheap and of poor quality that I take issue with. My HT1000 and TK280/380 radio runcircles around every other actual ham portable I have ever owned, they sound better, have great audio accessories, and audio power that I do not have to crank the volume or use an earphone with, even at the loudest events. I also do not have to worry about dropping them and worry if it will be in pieces when I pick it up. The speaker mic cables also tend to stay pliable when it is -20c and I am out side all day long.

 

[W2NJS]

Why I don't use commercial gear on the ham bands:

Commercial gear:
"Hey Bob, how's it going today?"
"Hey Brandon, doing great. I noticed that I can pick you up really well on reverse. How about we get off of the repeater and go to simplex? I'll meet you over on 147.550."
"Okay Bob, sounds good. I don't have a VFO on my radio and I only have the local repeaters programmed in. Give me a few minutes to pull over (I'm driving), get out my laptop, and program in that frequency."

OR

Ham Gear:
"Hey Bob, how's it going today?"
"Hey Brandon, doing great. I noticed that I can pick you up really well on reverse. How about we get off of the repeater and go to simplex? I'll meet you over on 147.550."
"Okay Bob, I'll meet you there." (Hit VFO, dial in the frequency, DONE.)

You could substitute a different repeater for the simplex frequency in this scenario. Bottom line, I want access to the whole ham radio band on the fly not only what channels I have programmed into my radio.

Okay, so he doesn't have direct channels programmed. Or does he? Most commercial radios are capable of having one button programmed for simplex operation, and with one button press he can be simplex on the repeater's output. Let's also assume that, seeing how he's running a commercial radio, he knows more than just a little about how this stuff works in general.

Back to the point about VFO's on ham gear, yes they have them, but if you buy an expensive, say, Motorola HT or mobile these days you shouldn't be buying it unless it has FPP. FPP, once a virtually unknown feature, has now become a common flashcode item.

 

[WB4CS]

Retracted comment. (I wrote a long reply, then realized I misread the comment I was replying to. Carry on

 

[WB4CS]

Most commercial radios are capable of having one button programmed for simplex operation, and with one button press he can be simplex on the repeater's output.

Why would someone want to run simplex on a repeater output? It ties up the frequency for repeater users that are in range of the simplex users, and if someone is out of range and starts using the repeater then your simplex QSO is over. I get the point you're trying to make, and as I said earlier if you had enough memory channels you could program every simplex frequency and repeater pair (if you don't have FPP).

I just don't get the point of either A) buying OLD USED commercial gear that has no guarantee of how long it will last, or B) paying TOP DOLLAR for new commercial gear. I can spend a fraction of the cost on new ham gear and if it breaks out of warranty, toss it and get a new radio and still come out cheaper.

My last two handheld radios were ham gear, used and abused daily, and are both still working like the day I got them even after several years of use. But I don't constantly drop my radio, throw it up against a wall, drop it in mud puddles, etc., so I guess I have no need for commercial gear, hence my point of view on the topic.

 

[990adv]

This comment is going to ruffle some feathers.

I get a big kick out of some of the morbidly obese motorola people that brag how their radios are much more durable than my "toy radios". My first question to them is when is the last time they hiked, rappelled or engaged in any form of activity that might damage the radio other than sitting on it.

 

[W4TF]

This comment is going to ruffle some feathers.

I get a big kick out of some of the morbidly obese motorola people that brag how their radios are much more durable than my "toy radios". My first question to them is when is the last time they hiked, rappelled or engaged in any form of activity that might damage the radio other than sitting on it.

:lol::lol::lol: I LOVE IT!! :lol::lol::lol:

...but I have a sick kinda humor like that...

I got a few people mad at a club meeting when the announcement was made that the ARES reflective vests were on back order. I commented that it was because they had NO IDEA how much reflective tape a typical Ham's vest requires :lol::twisted:

 

[AK9R]

Guys, let's stay focused on the discussion of using commercial radios in the amateur radio bands. Body type or ARES affiliation is a bit off topic.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Arizona DPS can go car-to-car on the repeater output. It allows them to exchange quick info from one end of a scene to another, and still allows them to hear the dispatcher. They can also go car-to-car on another district's channel.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

On an HT, their simplex range isn't that far, and the exchange of info is usually fairly quick, so the chance of interferring with other units within range is small.

 

[jhooten]

Why would someone want to run simplex on a repeater output?

The repeater is out of service and people are still monitoring the output.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

On the Ham bands, I believe it'd be considered bad practice to go simplex on an output, but checking the input to see if you're close enough to QSY to a simplex channel is good practice, so as to free up a repeater for those who need it.

 

[Spankymedic7]

^^^

Commercial radios could have "FPP" which would allow you to program on the fly from the keypad without problems/hassles

The way it was for ME (Brandon) -

"Hey Bob, how's it going today?"
"Hey Brandon, doing great. I noticed that I can pick you up really well on reverse. How about we get off of the repeater and go to simplex? I'll meet you over on 147.550."
"Okay Bob, I'll meet you there." (enter frequency via FPP dial in the frequency, DONE.)
{...after 10 min qso on the HTs...}
"Hey Brandon, I gotta go, my HT is TOOO hot to hold now, sorry to cut the qso short"
"Awe, that's too bad Bob, should have went with a Motorola.. "

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Too funny!

 

[Spankymedic7]

This comment is going to ruffle some feathers.

I get a big kick out of some of the morbidly obese motorola people that brag how their radios are much more durable than my "toy radios". My first question to them is when is the last time they hiked, rappelled or engaged in any form of activity that might damage the radio other than sitting on it.

Can I ask you what in the hell anyone's weight has to do with the make/model of the HT they use? Furthermore, what does anyone's physical activity level (I.e. hiking and rappelling) have to do with this thread?

Your comment was a bit out of line.