Why use commercial radios on Ham bands

[rescuecomm]

1. Loud audio to hear over the TV set while eating donuts and drinking lattes?
2. Durable belt clips because most armchairs are too narrow for their fat a**.
3. Motorola brand to look important when you really are just a regular joe.
4. Selective front end to keep your notebook from desensing it.
5. Water resistant rating in case it falls into the toilet.
6. Front panel programming to keyup other public safety radio systems leaving their dispatches to wonder who in the H*** you are.

Har, Har, Har, Har!!

Bob

 

[W2IBC]

This comment is going to ruffle some feathers.

I get a big kick out of some of the morbidly obese motorola people that brag how their radios are much more durable than my "toy radios". My first question to them is when is the last time they hiked, rappelled or engaged in any form of activity that might damage the radio other than sitting on it.

lol. I admit I laughed. but it is true.

I have no issue with commercial gear on ham bands. I got a couple maxtracs myself. not using them atm but I have them.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Why would someone want to run simplex on a repeater output?

It's called "talkaround" in the non-ham radio services and is quite common on non-trunked frequencies. For them, there might not be any licensed simplex frequencies available when they need a quick conversation that does not need to be repeatered (spelling intentional).

For hams, it's a convenience and occasionally a safer way to go direct when mobile (less time spent looking and thinking away from the task of driving if you have a "talkaround" button available.)

 

[WB4CS]

It's called "talkaround" in the non-ham radio services and is quite common on non-trunked frequencies. For them, there might not be any licensed simplex frequencies available when they need a quick conversation that does not need to be repeatered (spelling intentional).

For hams, it's a convenience and occasionally a safer way to go direct when mobile (less time spent looking and thinking away from the task of driving if you have a "talkaround" button available.)

I understand the idea of a talkaround channel on non-ham bands, but this thread is about using commercial gear in the ham bands. As someone above pointed out, it is generally considered bad operating practice to use a repeater output as a simplex frequency. Sure it's not a hard rule, many of us on our local repeater use our repeater's output as a simplex frequency at hamfests, but inside a building on low power and an HT it's doubtful it will tie up the repeater frequency outside of the hamfest. And as someone else pointed out going HT to HT wouldn't have much range to bother the repeater users. But if you're talking about mobile radios running higher power with a good antenna, you could easily tie up the repeater frequency for folks within a large range of the repeater's coverage area.

Oh, and ham gear has a "talkaround" button. It's called a call channel. Most ham radios have a button marked CALL that one press goes to the programmed call frequency.

 

[mrweather]

Okay, I guess if you program the "call" button as the repeater output it could be considered "talkaround".

I have and use commercial gear but it augments my ham gear. If I'm doing an outdoor public service event, I'll bring my Kenwood 90 Series handheld. It can handle more abuse and the audio is better.

 

[mikegilbert]

I use a VHF/UHF-1 APX7000xe for local ham repeaters. We have 5 P25 UHF machines on the air here in the Seattle area- most have pretty darn good handheld coverage. When mobile, I use my UHF or VHF XTL5000s in my car. Both have the '03' control head.

I use Motorola commercial gear because of the fantastic audio quality, unrivaled build quality and the simple no nonsense functionality.

 

[fineshot1]

Good Day-

I am working on a list of reasons why hams should use commercial radios on ham bands especially VHF and UHF. My focus is on emergency comms but also daily operations.
I have started the list but want to develop it a bit more:

More rugged
Longer battery life
Better filtering
More rugged accessories
Can be used as a Part 90 radio and on the ham bands

Any more ideas?

Thanks....
Ken - N7QQU

A better question to ask is " Why not use commercial gear on ham radio bands? "

Have you forgotten that a very large part of Ham Radio is "Experimentation and Learning New
Technologies" so I ask why not? The usage of commercial gear in ham radio falls right into
line with a large part of ham radio experimentation and in fact when i started back in the mid
1970's a very large part of vhf/uhf gear was commercial gear as most of what was available
was commercial gear most of which was crystal controlled and not programmable like today.

 

[902]

A better question to ask is " Why not use commercial gear on ham radio bands? "

Have you forgotten that a very large part of Ham Radio is "Experimentation and Learning New
Technologies" so I ask why not? The usage of commercial gear in ham radio falls right into
line with a large part of ham radio experimentation and in fact when i started back in the mid
1970's a very large part of vhf/uhf gear was commercial gear as most of what was available
was commercial gear most of which was crystal controlled and not programmable like today.

I think you hit the nail on the head. In the 70s, commercial equipment was readily available. In NJ, we had Gregory Electronics that was heaps of used GE, Motorola, and RCA equipment waiting for their second lives. Many of those radios were tinkered to be fast-scan TV transmitters by hams who are now gone. Some of them were pieced together to become wide-area repeater systems. There was a whole generation of hams who grew up on experimenting with these things - RCA LD "waffle irons," GE Porta-Mobiles, and Motorola lunchbox radios. Those people went on to work on these things and didn't get rich, but earned a living. So, today, why not learn more about how radio is used outside of amateur radio? We need a next generation of competent RF technicians who are NOT "IT guys" or "cellheads" and can go down to component level.

 

[WB4CS]

I think you hit the nail on the head. In the 70s, commercial equipment was readily available. In NJ, we had Gregory Electronics that was heaps of used GE, Motorola, and RCA equipment waiting for their second lives. Many of those radios were tinkered to be fast-scan TV transmitters by hams who are now gone. Some of them were pieced together to become wide-area repeater systems. There was a whole generation of hams who grew up on experimenting with these things - RCA LD "waffle irons," GE Porta-Mobiles, and Motorola lunchbox radios. Those people went on to work on these things and didn't get rich, but earned a living. So, today, why not learn more about how radio is used outside of amateur radio? We need a next generation of competent RF technicians who are NOT "IT guys" or "cellheads" and can go down to component level.

Totally agree with both of you on this, it certainly does fall into the category of experimentation. I fully support that idea.

I guess where folks like me get grumpy about the commercial VS ham conversation is that some people don't use commercial gear for the experimental value of it. They use it because they feel cool wearing a Motorola radio that makes them look like an undercover cop. No one get your pants in a jumble, I'm not saying every one has this mentality, but those types are out there.

 

[kc2iiz]

That's quite a set up. I'm jealous.

 

[mmckenna]

A better question to ask is " Why not use commercial gear on ham radio bands? "

Have you forgotten that a very large part of Ham Radio is "Experimentation and Learning New
Technologies" so I ask why not? The usage of commercial gear in ham radio falls right into
line with a large part of ham radio experimentation and in fact when i started back in the mid
1970's a very large part of vhf/uhf gear was commercial gear as most of what was available
was commercial gear most of which was crystal controlled and not programmable like today.

Exactly. The "appliance operator" hams that buy everything pre made in easily digestible pieces, put it all together with pre-terminated cables, just never made much sense to me. Figuring out how to get a Syntor down to the ham band, making your own cables and adapters, constructing, fabricating, trying out different set ups, that's what it's all about. Purchasing everything off the internet and doing a plug and play install is nothing more than what many CB'ers do. Some of the questions I hear amateur operators ask makes me wonder how they got the licenses. There seems to be a lack of technical understanding in the hobby these days.

 

[N4DES]

I use a VHF/UHF-1 APX7000xe for local ham repeaters. We have 5 P25 UHF machines on the air here in the Seattle area- most have pretty darn good handheld coverage. When mobile, I use my UHF or VHF XTL5000s in my car. Both have the '03' control head.

I use Motorola commercial gear because of the fantastic audio quality, unrivaled build quality and the simple no nonsense functionality.

Where is my "Like Button"?

 

[MTS2000des]

Exactly. The "appliance operator" hams that buy everything pre made in easily digestible pieces, put it all together with pre-terminated cables, just never made much sense to me. Figuring out how to get a Syntor down to the ham band, making your own cables and adapters, constructing, fabricating, trying out different set ups, that's what it's all about. Purchasing everything off the internet and doing a plug and play install is nothing more than what many CB'ers do. Some of the questions I hear amateur operators ask makes me wonder how they got the licenses. There seems to be a lack of technical understanding in the hobby these days.

Like this 10X.
Can't count the number of new hams I've heard who don't even know what a PL tone is, or when to ID, not to kerchunk repeaters...is it just me or do to many new techs think that ham radio is supposed to be as easy as buying a cellphone and they expect them to work the same way.

LMR takes a little work (though nothing compared to re-crystaling and tuning up an HT-220) but it's worth it. You learn so much about how two way really works, and have a superior PERFORMING radio in the end. A 10 year old HT1000 will run circles around any $50 Baoturd and will be here in another 10 years when the cheap plastic crap from China is in a landfill.

 

[fineshot1]

Like this 10X.
Can't count the number of new hams I've heard who don't even know what a PL tone is, or when to ID, not to kerchunk repeaters...is it just me or do to many new techs think that ham radio is supposed to be as easy as buying a cellphone and they expect them to work the same way.

LMR takes a little work (though nothing compared to re-crystaling and tuning up an HT-220) but it's worth it. You learn so much about how two way really works, and have a superior PERFORMING radio in the end. A 10 year old HT1000 will run circles around any $50 Baoturd and will be here in another 10 years when the cheap plastic crap from China is in a landfill.

I could not have said it better than you and mckenna - very well said, and yes i'd use the like button also.

 

[WB4CS]

Can't count the number of new hams I've heard who don't even know what a PL tone is, or when to ID, not to kerchunk repeaters...is it just me or do to many new techs think that ham radio is supposed to be as easy as buying a cellphone and they expect them to work the same way.

Like this comment 1000X. The local repeater I use is constantly being kerchunked all day and all night. Sometimes it's 5 or 10 times in a row and that's before the repeater hang timer (of 2 seconds) drops. I will key up and say "You're making the repeater, how about you ID your station?" No one comes back and the kerchunking stops for about 30 minutes. It's either non-licensed stations or some ham that doesn't know the rules.

Oh well, I digress. Got off topic there, sorry. Back to the commercial VS ham debate...

 

[N4JKD]

Like this comment 1000X. The local repeater I use is constantly being kerchunked all day and all night. Sometimes it's 5 or 10 times in a row and that's before the repeater hang timer (of 2 seconds) drops. I will key up and say "You're making the repeater, how about you ID your station?" No one comes back and the kerchunking stops for about 30 minutes. It's either non-licensed stations or some ham that doesn't know the rules.

Oh well, I digress. Got off topic there, sorry. Back to the commercial VS ham debate...

Kerchunking is happening alot around here, has been for a while. Occasionally, you will get an other ham...a seasoned veteran for the most part, that will get pissed off and get on there and chew someone's head off. For instance, we had one kerchunk like 10 times in a row, and at the time, the repeater was on battery power, as storms had knocked power out and our local "repeater sheriff" we call him, got on and said "PLEASE STOP DINGING THE REPEATER! YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE, YOU NEVER ID, AND YOU ARE DOING NOTHING BUT WASTING YOUR TIME AND OUR BATTERY POWER SO QUIT BEING STUPID". Surprisingly, it stopped...for a few days anyhow.


As far as commercial radios....I like it! It is a great way to take your handheld, and be able to catch some tunes while out and about. This is really handy when sitting out by a bonfire, or when the power goes out. or just relaxing in the lawn chair. They may not have the Hi Fidelity sound your Bose may have, but it does what I need it to.

 

[902]

I've dealt with the kerchunking issue a few times in a few different venues. I've come to the conclusion that, with the exception of someone who is doing it maliciously, over and over, the people who kerchunk the repeaters are: 1) all different folks, not just one; 2) don't necessarily have the time or want to get into a conversation (that's a lost art among the new generation); and 3) want to check if the repeater is still up and covers where they are.

I made the issue go away on a few repeaters. I programmed them to instantaneous dropout and made sure the controller didn't make any beeping or booping noises. Just ID every 10 minutes - very similar to a commercial repeater, except the ID fit the Part 97 rules. Not sounding like a cuckoo clock after each transmission is actually pretty sharp, all things considered. Two things happened - the people knew they could probably hit the repeater if they heard the ID regularly. If the ID was noisy, they probably could not hit the repeater reliably. And, since the repeater didn't "hang," there was nothing to listen for after keying it. It all stopped.

Unfortunately now it's stopped because the only activity the repeater gets is a daily net. Otherwise it's silent all day long.

 

[N4JKD]

I've dealt with the kerchunking issue a few times in a few different venues. I've come to the conclusion that, with the exception of someone who is doing it maliciously, over and over, the people who kerchunk the repeaters are: 1) all different folks, not just one; 2) don't necessarily have the time or want to get into a conversation (that's a lost art among the new generation); and 3) want to check if the repeater is still up and covers where they are.

I made the issue go away on a few repeaters. I programmed them to instantaneous dropout and made sure the controller didn't make any beeping or booping noises. Just ID every 10 minutes - very similar to a commercial repeater, except the ID fit the Part 97 rules. Not sounding like a cuckoo clock after each transmission is actually pretty sharp, all things considered. Two things happened - the people knew they could probably hit the repeater if they heard the ID regularly. If the ID was noisy, they probably could not hit the repeater reliably. And, since the repeater didn't "hang," there was nothing to listen for after keying it. It all stopped.

Unfortunately now it's stopped because the only activity the repeater gets is a daily net. Otherwise it's silent all day long.

Many of ours are like that except for the linked repeater system which covers the state.

Jason Dailey
N4JKD

 

[WB4CS]

I made the issue go away on a few repeaters. I programmed them to instantaneous dropout and made sure the controller didn't make any beeping or booping noises. Just ID every 10 minutes - very similar to a commercial repeater, except the ID fit the Part 97 rules. Not sounding like a cuckoo clock after each transmission is actually pretty sharp, all things considered. Two things happened - the people knew they could probably hit the repeater if they heard the ID regularly.

I wish all repeaters were like that! I have no need to know what time it is every hour, what the date is, or a 10 second hang timer after a series of beeps and boops. I quit using a good local repeater in my area for those very reasons. Several good folks to talk to on it, but got tired of the club commercials every 10 minutes. Now I've moved to a quiet repeater that just sends its call sign, drops out after 2 seconds, and has great coverage. Not as many people to talk to on it, but at least my radio is quiet when no one is talking.

 

[RFD245]

As a paid FF/EMT I use a XTS5000 every third day and am issued a XTS2500 as a take home radio. I have been a ham for 22 years and in the past have had MT1000's as well as HT1000's and to be honest they are in my humble opinion just too much of a hassle to be a good radio for the typical ham. I wouldn't even dream of using an XTS series for Ham use as the things are just too big and heavy and a pain to have programmed, with that being said I get a laugh at guys who have the data bust enabled to sound cool on the repeater which is irritating as hell to listen to so I typically just use my VFO and move to another repeater. I guess I'm curious to a few remarks about going on emergencies and how nice and loud the audio is which I agree is a big plus but the question is are these comments being made by vollies with a local agency or are they hams and if they are hams what do you do at these "emergencies"??? Just curious??

73's......Ed KC4ZGK