XTS5000 P25 RX MODULATION

[chrismol1]

Ohhhh ....David, i LOVED his instructional videos.

/s

Was that the video that the guy was bragging about doing what he was doing while admonishing anyone doing exactly what he was doing with a claim of being close to public safety or something. I think I've seen that. Reminds me of jeremy dewitte police impersonator recording all his crimes

 

[a417]

Yeah, that was him. Here is @GTR8000's post with a link to the youtubings of it.

 

[MTS2000des]

Was that the video that the guy was bragging about doing what he was doing while admonishing anyone doing exactly what he was doing with a claim of being close to public safety or something. I think I've seen that. Reminds me of jeremy dewitte police impersonator recording all his crimes

Yup. This guy publicly demonstrated he knew that what he did was not just illegal, it could have life ending consequences for a user of a system. I'll say it again for those who think it's child's play cloning trunking radios on systems they aren't supposed to be on to begin with: you can get someone hurt or killed screwing around with this stuff.

If one can do NAS properly so be it. Otherwise, grab a Uniden SDS. No one ever got arrested for programming a scanner. No one's system ever received a bogus affiliation request from a scanner. No one ever got hurt or killed from an improperly programmed scanner.

 

[K2NEC]

If one can do NAS properly so be it. Otherwise, grab a Uniden SDS. No one ever got arrested for programming a scanner. No one's system ever received a bogus affiliation request from a scanner. No one ever got hurt or killed from an improperly programmed scanner.

You hit the nail on the head with everything else but do you have a specific source or article that states that someone got hurt or killed because of an improperly programmed NAS radio?

 

[FFPM571]

You hit the nail on the head with everything else but do you have a specific source or article that states that someone got hurt or killed because of an improperly programmed NAS radio?

If you are using the ID of a legit user of say a police officer or firefighter and they need to use their radio in an emergency situation and you have your NAS improperly programmed radio scanning some other talkgroup there is a possibility of that transmission not being heard..

 

[K2NEC]

If you are using the ID of a legit user of say a police officer or firefighter and they need to use their radio in an emergency situation and you have your NAS improperly programmed radio scanning some other talkgroup there is a possibility of that transmission not being heard..

You are 100% right. IF
Are there any actually documented cases of this happening and someone getting hurt or killed because of it?

 

[DeoVindice]

You are 100% right. IF
Are there any actually documented cases of this happening and someone getting hurt or killed because of it?

Doesn't matter. It's a reasonably possible end result of improper programming. Somebody doesn't need be injured or killed to understand that unnecessary risk-taking should be avoided.

 

[K2NEC]

Doesn't matter. It's a reasonably possible end result of improper programming. Somebody doesn't need be injured or killed to understand that unnecessary risk-taking should be avoided.

I don't disagree, I'm just curious if something like it has happened before. I'm not disputing that it's risky and stupid, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[MTS2000des]

There are plenty of documented cases of cloned radios causing legitimate public safety users to have calls missed or sent to the wrong talk group. I've had about a dozen or so, in most cases, it was due to legitimate programming errors (duplicating IDs) but the net effect is the same. It only takes that happening in the wrong set of circumstances and it's all over.

The entire reason many of us have jobs is to maintain the network so it doesn't happen, and if it does, identify, mitigate and respond BEFORE those circumstances line up and someone gets hurt or worse.

It's also why many of us don't take lightly to often times well meaning but seriously misinformed and technically inept hobbyists dicking around with subscriber equipment "just to listen" without knowing or worse yet acting arrogant like we're exaggerating. As I always say, it's all good, until it isn't. When it isn't, it can be a life changing situation for all involved. Who wants that just to play with toys that really aren't toys?
Scanners are toys and no way possible (other than divulging what one hears to offenders) will ever ever ever bring harm to a radio system of any kind.

 

[N4DES]

There are also those that duplicate the console ID's and cause all kinds of havoc for those wearing the headset. Using Genesis this is easily identified and then quietly inhibited in a short period of time.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I'm starting to think that even the official information on the forum regarding NAS should maybe be redacted and/or altered to further discourage such experimentation. And I'm one of the guys who went public with it, back in the day!
The game has changed, stakes are higher, laws are different, there's simply more trouble to be had and the method has, if anything, only become more complicated to properly implement in Phase 2 systems.

Maybe this needs to become a topic where formally there's no support for it at all within the forum. Not even a basic discussion. "You can't do it safely or legally, we do not discuss it, that's the end. Buy any scanner on this list. (Attach list of current models of P25 capable scanners)."

It's become like those ads on TV for certain medications, where the benefits take five seconds to list, but the list of possible side effects up to and including death take up the rest of the ad time.

 

[GTR8000]

and the method has, if anything, only become more complicated to properly implement in Phase 2 systems.

Nonsense. Setting up TDMA passive scanning is no more complicated than setting it up for FDMA. In fact, the process is identical. Of course that's moot in this thread since the OP is using an XTS, but for the sake of clarity, as I believe you've tried to make that erroneous claim once or twice in the past.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Don't skip over the point I'm trying to make, which is simply that I no longer believe that sharing the NAS method of scanning is in any way beneficial to our community and I do not recommend that it be shared anymore. In my opinion that information should now be considered to be a topic not permitted to be discussed. You know perfectly well that it's essentially impossible to use the method without bending or breaking a few laws. I could be very specific about that but think it's not required at the moment. So, there's plenty of reason to NOT discuss it.

Yes I'm quite aware that simply enabling TDMA doesn't make the method more complicated, other than to simply enable TDMA if it's an available feature. That's not the point I'm making here.

 

[K2NEC]

Ah yes, instead of telling people the right way of doing it, we shall encourage them to guess and check instead. Makes sense

People aren't going to stop trying NAS because you remove or restrict the instructions.

 

[GTR8000]

Don't skip over the point I'm trying to make....

You're preaching to the preacher, guy. I'm intimately aware of the issues with passive scanning when it involves the dubious creation of a system key for MSI CPS, and a lack of knowledge on the part of a person attempting to get it setup without understanding what they're doing or taking the time to learn.

In fact, just the other day someone was giving me a hard time about my "lousy attitude" here in the forums because of my vocal opposition to spoon feeding lazy members, in particular when it comes to setting up passive scanning in an MSI subscriber. It was suggested that I should just be more helpful and spend my valuable time giving detailed step by step instructions to anyone who asks, because "it would be better for them to do it the right way, so why withhold the knowledge?" So yeah, nothing you're saying is new to me.

As for the criticism that we're jerks for withholding the info and should be telling people how to do it, well first of all there are numerous resources available explaining passive scanning in depth. People have taken the time to do writeups and making videos on the method, so why should we have to continuously repeat ourselves? It comes down to laziness and a sense of entitlement from far too many members who buy a cheap radio on eBay and want instant gratification without putting any work into it.

This here post by @mikewazowski sums it up perfectly:

Xts2500 800mhz question

Hi everyone. Does the xts2500 receive simulcast? Just wanna know before i buy a trunking 700/800mhz radio.

forums.radioreference.com

"Do your research first. Watch the videos, read the write ups and once your familiar with the process, then come back and ask reasonable questions. Too many people are buying these radios and expect someone will be there to walk them through the process step by step."

 

[ElroyJetson]

I'm totally OK with the notion of being a "jerk" for withholding information that can quite easily have some seriously negative repercussions not only for the person who exploits the information, but quite possibly also for the person who shares it.

I think we intimately understand the potential legal ramifications that improper application of the NAS methodology could lead to. Or, even worse, malicious usage of said information with intent to cause interference.

All I'm offering/suggesting is that this, in my opinion, should become forum policy as well. I think the subject of NAS should be memory holed and any articles and existing topics on it scrubbed off the generally accessible portions of the forum.

As you mentioned, there are quite enough off-site resources to guide people who still wish to engage in that activity. Really there's no reason to provide any related knowledge or support from this forum at all. And plenty of reasons NOT to.

 

[mikewazowski]

OP got his answer a long time ago. Closing.