911 Dispatch Console Problems

[WB5UOM]

Are you doing local control or tone remote from console?
Local control is far more likely to pick up stray hum over tone remote.
That may have been discussed and I missed it.
or
Levels leaving console are too high and overloading input to radio at the DB-25

in my 400 mile away - not there to see - I might be wrong opinion

 

[TampaTyron]

I really like the types and quantities of skills here on this site..... I am truly amazed what we can do to help folks remotely. Also, I am so saddened by the state of the industry that it has come to this. TT

 

[mmckenna]

That was tried and it was confirmed that the audio was clear and sounded great with just the hand mic.

There is most of your answer. Console interface issue.

Get a professional. It'll cost you a lot less money in the long run.
Still amazed that there are companies out there that act like this.

 

[mmckenna]

Also, I am so saddened by the state of the industry that it has come to this. TT

Good shops and techs are out there, they're just not cheap. There's just too many techs out there that don't know what they are doing.

 

[pepper33]

Are you doing local control or tone remote from console?
Local control is far more likely to pick up stray hum over tone remote.
That may have been discussed and I missed it.
or
Levels leaving console are too high and overloading input to radio at the DB-25

in my 400 mile away - not there to see - I might be wrong opinion

I believe it is tone remote

 

[TampaTyron]

I believe it is tone remote

To confirm the wiring is tone, you could put a buttset on any of the punch blocks or terminal strips (wire nuts? buttsplices?) that the audio wiring is hooked to. You should hear tones changing when the radio operation is commanded to change. TT

 

[AM909]

Our dispatch center has 2 Gaitronics ICP 9000 consoles with 3 Kenwood NX-5700's and 1 Kenwood NX-5900 operating remotely with the consoles via ethrenet cable. ...

 

[TampaTyron]

AM909, Ethernet cable can hold IP traffic or analog audio but the ICP9000 seems to only be capable of analog audio. So my guesses are that the analog audio is being carried over the Ethernet cable. Hopefully there are punch down blocks with bridge clips that you can clip onto to listen to the audio AND break the system into pieces to help narrow down the issue. As noted above, it could be poor audio level settings, noise getting into the wiring from poor grounding/shielding, or RF being induced into the cable. TT

 

[speedway_navigator]

Have you replaced light ballasts recently? The new green energy units are know to be RFI sources. Commercial ones can be noisier than residential, we saw this in a fire station. I had dinner with a guy from Gap wireless during IWCE who said a cell system was taking hits at night, many blocks were affected.

It turned out a building had replaced all their parking lot lights with new units but the mfg had a supply chain problem with its ballast vendor, so they went to a different one. Those failed the EMC standards but supposedly that mfg just slapped on a label indicating they were OK.

Turning out the lights might be a quick first step to eliminate that. Wall warts can spew EMI as well. I'd try shielded cat 5 cable to see if that helps.

 

[AM909]

AM909, Ethernet cable can hold IP traffic or analog audio but the ICP9000 seems to only be capable of analog audio. ...

The term "Ethernet" confused me, which is why I was focused on the term-panel end of things, since interference along the path of an IP/Ethernet/UTP connection would just manifest as a bitrate problem.

As you said, and a quick glance at the ICP9000 manual confirms, this is instead a traditional tone/DC/E&M device that uses whatever you would normally use for such a circuit (including UTP cabling if spec), unfortunately bringing all the other usual analog sources of interference along the path into play.

Has anyone looked carefully at the punchblock to make sure someone didn't accidentally bridge a data pair onto it? A lot of people don't seem to bother with the red warning covers any more when there's a lot of data on a block. Seems like analog circuits are more in need of protection now.

 

[speedway_navigator]

The problem appears to be at the tower demark where the radios are getting audio.

Radio TX/mic audio line level adjustment from the console needs a tech at each end per page 15 of the manual. Since the radios transmit, the 2175 Hz tone must have enough level to drive the radio and keep it keyed with low level guard tone.

Have you tried running the radios from a battery to eliminate any AC power supply hum?
Any other radio users on site with you to see if they have problems?

Since this is an uplink TX audio only problem I'm assuming you are a 4 wire circuit, otherwise I'd expect dispatch to hear the same thing.

 

[pepper33]

In Reference to my original post on this forum... The post was meant to seek advice in solving the issue. It was not meant to slander the radio shop in question. I would like to apologize for that. Thanks

 

[TampaTyron]

Sounds like the shopost...... or a chain of command found someone's post......TT

 

[wa8pyr]

Another thing to add is we have a panic button installed in our courthouse that transmits an automated message when the button is pressed. It is hooked to a Kenwood NX-3220 with battery eliminator and an external antenna and it also has the terrible hammering / helicopter noise. Was installed by the same dealer. Would this mean rf is somewhere in the building or another radio shop mistake?

Is it a battery eliminator, or an actual power supply?

If this radio and your console radios are all doing this, I'd bet on power supplies that can't supply the necessary current for it to work properly, as others have mentioned.

 

[pepper33]

Is it a battery eliminator, or an actual power supply?

If this radio and your console radios are all doing this, I'd bet on power supplies that can't supply the necessary current for it to work properly, as others have mentioned.

On this it is on a battery eliminator. Also wanted to add this was done by a seperate company and not the same radio shop that installed the consoles

 

[wa8pyr]

On this it is on a battery eliminator. Also wanted to add this was done by a seperate company and not the same radio shop that installed the consoles

Lose the battery eliminator and get a proper, well-regulated power supply which can supply sufficient current for the job. The Astron SS-25 works pretty well for us.

While some battery eliminators can provide sufficient current, they usually have rather poor regulation.

 

[mmckenna]

In Reference to my original post on this forum... The post was meant to seek advice in solving the issue. It was not meant to slander the radio shop in question. I would like to apologize for that. Thanks

You shouldn't be apologizing. You pointed out a legitimate issue with your system. It wasn't slander, as you never once named the shop.

Those of us that do this exact sort of stuff for a living can see that whoever did the install not only did a sloppy job, but also has a very poor level of customer service. None of that should be acceptable or deserve an apology from the customer. If the radio shop in question is upset about this, then they need to clean up their act and not get upset when other experienced radio techs point out sloppy work and poor customer service. There is no excuse for what they did, especially since they took taxpayer funds to do such poor work, and didn't follow through on resolving issues they created.

No self respecting radio tech would walk away from either one of these systems without properly testing everything and fixing any deficiencies.

 

[MUTNAV]

Honestly, I kept wondering if you were the shop and seeking advice to fix a problem that was a little beyond you...

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

^^^^ no comment ^^^^

No self respecting radio tech would walk away from either one of these systems without properly testing everything and fixing any deficiencies.

In my career, I've fired exactly ONE technician. I've happily let a few walk away and never come back.

Any tech that did work like that would get some serious talking to, a LOT more training, and if they still did work like this, would be shown the door, or would spend the rest of their employment emptying the trash cans.

Doing work like that in any sort of mission critical application shows they are WAY in over their head and are not responsible enough to handle the trust they have been given. There's pride in workmanship, and it sounds like it's missing in both these installations. Makes me wonder if it was the same technician that was fired from the first company and ended up at the other.

 

[AM909]

In Reference to my original post on this forum... The post was meant to seek advice in solving the issue. It was not meant to slander the radio shop in question. I would like to apologize for that. Thanks

IANAL, but a finding of slander (actually libel here) requires that the statement be false and injurious. Unless you made all this up and the un-named shop was somehow injured as a direct result, you're probably good.