Affordable Radio Packet Data Modem

[N2AL]

Hey everyone! Thanks for taking a moment to read this thread, and for offering any assistance you may be able to lend.

I am looking for an affordable radio packet data modem, but I do not know where to begin. I've found the PACTOR modems, but I am not willing or able to pay close to $1,500.00 for that equipment. I am sure that another company would manufacture an affordable modem.

The setup I wish to use it for is this: Yaesu FT-857 for HF data transmissions. The audio cable needing to plug into the modem has an audio-in cable and an audio-out cable. From there USB to my computer where the software for the data transmissions can do the rest. Pretty cut and dry, not too difficult.

If anyone knows where to begin looking for an affordable modem please let me in on the scoop. Thanks everyone for your assistance and I look forward to hearing your replies!


73's.

Andrew
N4AWL

 

[AK9R]

Are you really looking to communicate using AX.25 packet? Or are you interested in other modes?

 

[N2AL]

The modes I plan on working are PSK ; RTTY ; and WinLink.

 

[charlesdotcc]

I think most people are using software these days - just run the audio out from your radio to the sound card on your computer, and let the software do the decoding. I'm not familiar enough with the particulars to suggest one, but there are many out there.

But if you want a hardware solution, I know of at least one - Kantronics KAM-XL All-Mode Radio Modem/TNC . HRO is asking $410, but it's also been out a *long* time, I'm sure they're many on the used market.

 

[N2AL]

Thanks charlesdotcc.

I currently use the setup with the software and sound cards. But my problem is this; I use a MacBook Pro, and WinLink is a Windows / Linux program only. It will not work on the Mac so I have to use CrossOver software to run it in windows virtual machine. BUT my external sound cards are not recognized in the COM ports, so I actually need a USB Radio Modem so it will be detectable.

$410 is A LOT better than the nearly $1,500 PACTOR wants, and on the used market I am sure I could find it cheaper. Thanks for the heads up on that.

 

[vagrant]

You could use a Signalink USB device. (Tigertronics Home Page) You can find them for $110 or less. Just select the correct one that provides the cable for your 857D. I believe that's just the six pin which works with many Kenwood and Yaesu models. I use one with an 480SAT and an 817ND (same cable). Typically, it is connected to the Kenwood 480. It connects right up to your computer and radio once you have set the appropriate jumpers on the Signalink, or you could purchase their Plug & Play jumper for $8. It works fine with or without that jumper. I purchased one so I could easily switch between rigs. It is powered via the USB connection to the computer.

I have not used Winlink with that Signalink though. I have some Kenwood radios that have a built-in TNC which I use on VHF. I should give it a try on HF if I can. I use RMS Express with those radios. Hmm...time to see if that will work.

 

[N2AL]

Vagrant, thanks for the idea! I ordered a Signalink USB adaptor for my radio from HRO this afternoon; it's estimated to arrive on Friday. I will let you know how well it functions with the data transmissions, as well as interfacing with CrossOver. I plan on using Rum Express as well, so I shall report my findings! I found the Signalink USB for only $100.00 which was a lot cheaper than the $1,500 or $400 route I was facing.

 

[vagrant]

Yeah, it is not a bad price and it's nice to have the controls on the front, but once you set it you don't often mess with it.

Also, it should work fine with RMS Express and Winlink2k based on what I read. I just haven't had a moment to try it on HF. The Winlink site is your friend for locating stations that are listening. If you're setup for some NVIS on 40 meters you should find something right quick.

What is Rum Express? A quick search provided me with beverage options.

 

[N2AL]

Haha apologies, I was drunk. hi hi just kidding.. I meant to type RMS Express but my brain-to-fingertips process malfunctioned.

I will be sure to not mess with the settings once I have them properly configured. I am currently running two USB sound cards for packet, and it's the same situation there. Don't overdrive the audio and once it's set correctly, don't touch it!

It is not a bad price, much cheaper than I imagined it would be. Thanks again for the head up on that. If UPS decides to take a drive out here to the middle of nowhere, I should have it Friday. Otherwise it'll be Monday when it's not a convenient day to skip out of work early. You may think I am joking, but that is honesty there. It's not been the first Friday where my package gets overlooked on the truck. But we shall see..

73's to you and I will update ASAP.

 

[AK9R]

Just keep in mind that the SignaLink USB is not a packet TNC. It's just a sound card interface. Also, it uses an internal VOX circuit to send a PTT command to your radio. With the SignaLink, there is no way for the application program to trigger a PTT directly.

The reason some of the hardware devices are so expensive is that they make use of proprietary protocols. PACTOR II and PACTOR III belongs to SCS, a German company.

As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between AX.25 packet and the sound card data modes. If I was building an AX.25 packet system using VHF or UHF frequencies, I'd be looking at a Kantronics KPC3 or similar packet TNC. Much less "fiddly" than sound card packet or the other sound card digital modes and less dependent on having a correctly-configured computer.

 

[ka3jjz]

You can use AGWPE to make a sound card work like a packet modem, and programs like MultiPSK and MixW would also work...

The links for those 2 programs are in my sig, and here's the link for AGWPE

Introduction - Sound Card Packet

TNCs are so 80s....you'd still need a circuit to trigger the transceiver, but that's a whole lot simpler than a TNC which limits the number of modes you can use beyond packet. There's a heckuva lot of software out there for data modes other than packet.

I'm pretty sure there are a few schematics on the MixW website for this.

Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

This website has a lot of information on how to connect a sound card and a transceiver

WM2U's Soundcard Interfacing Schemes

Mike

 

[K4APR]

You could use a Signalink USB device. (Tigertronics Home Page) You can find them for $110 or less.

I second this. I have two SignaLinks that I use for PSK, RTTY and SSTV. Great interfaces and solid. Also, anyone who has messed with Windows 7 and internal sound cards know the problem with getting the software to access it. The easiest fix is an external card (usually through USB). Then you need a keying circuit interfaced to the radio. The SignaLink takes care of both in one box.

 

[N2AL]

Signalink USB for MAC

Hey everyone!!

I just received the SignaLink USB for my Yaesu 857. I am running a MAC operating system and I wish to use CrossOver to run my Windows program. But here is my problem I am facing.

When the computer detects the hardware, Audio USB CODEC , it places it under the sound system settings. When I run terminal (such as Windows command line) it will not display the USB information to create a virtual com port.

Certainly I am not the only person who has tried using SignaLink USB on MAC for Windows virtual machine. Can someone please tell me the steps to have terminal recognize the SignaLink USB so I can create a virtual com port?

Thanks everyone and I look forward to your replies!!


73's.


Andrew
N4AWL

 

[N2AL]

Thanks everyone for the comments! I received my SignaLink USB for the Yaesu 857 last night. I set the hardware up and it works perfect, EXCEPT for one issue:

When I connect the hardware to my Mac via USB, it detects as a sound card, but when I use Terminal (Windows equivalent to Command Line) it is unable to display the USB name and associated information I need to setup a virtual comport for the Windows software used in Cross Over. Can someone please help me out with this issue? I need to know how to locate the name of the USB connection from the SignaLink USB.

See the link below for an associated forum concerning this issue, and many thanks to everyone for your continues assistance.

http://forums.radioreference.com/amateur-radio-data-transmissions/300572-signalink-usb-mac.html

 

[AK9R]

I don't believe the SignaLink USB sets up a virtual COM port. It's just a USB sound card. It has no radio control functionality.

From the SignaLink USB FAQ:

The SignaLink USB is a sound card interface that provides the necessary hardware to operate all sound card digital and voice modes, but it does NOT provide the "CAT" (Computer Assisted Tuning) hardware needed to control the radio. If you want to control your radio (tuning, band/mode selection, etc.), then you will need a separate CAT interface. We suggest checking your radio manual for the radio manufacturer's CAT interface part number (CI-V, CT-x, etc.). If you do not want to purchase a CAT interface from the radio manufacturer (these are usually more expensive), then we suggest searching the internet for a compatible unit. NOTE: Please see the question below about using the SignaLink USB with programs that offer CAT control.

BTW, since you are discussing basically the same problem in two threads, I've merged the threads.

 

[N2AL]

Thanks for the merge!

I know it can be done, only because this reason. I found online (see below link) where you can use Terminal on Mac to assign a USB device a virtual com port, providing it appears in Terminal. But when I perform:

cd /dev/
ls

It does not show the connected device. BUT it shows under sound card and sound system preferences.

E-Mail at sea with SSB, Pactor and your Mac - Kismet Adventures

 

[AK9R]

I don't see any references on that web page about using a SignaLink USB. The author of that page is using an SCS PTC-IIpro which is a real PACTOR modem, not a sound card interface like the SignaLink.

The piece in this puzzle that I think you are missing is that in a real packet or PACTOR modem, aka TNC, there is hardware and firmware in the interface device that converts the audio from the radio into a stream of data that a computer can read over a serial port. On the transmit side, the interface device converts a stream of data that the computer sends over a serial port into audio that is used to modulate the radio and the device also keys the radio. The SignaLink USB does not do the audio to data conversion. It is merely a means of interfacing the audio from the the radio to digitized audio. You still need a piece of software running on your computer that converts the digitized audio to a stream of text data.

Let's say you and I wanted to communicate via PSK31, which is a fairly simple and popular sound card digital mode on the HF bands. If you had a SignaLink USB connected to your radio and if you were running the fldigi sound card digital mode software, you would configure fldigi to use the SignaLink's USB sound card as its audio device. fldigi would then decode the audio coming from your radio through the SignaLink into a stream of text that you would see on your computer screen. But, fldigi is doing the decoding in software, not the SignaLink.


In a previous message, you mentioned that the modes you wanted to work are PSK, RTTY, and WinLink. The SignaLink USB will do PSK and RTTY as long as you are using a program that can decode the digitized audio from the SignaLink USB's sound card into text data. WinLink is not a mode, it is a radio email system that uses various over-the-air modes, or communications protocols, such as AX.25 packet or PACTOR, to pass traffic.

I think you may want to step back a bit. Figure out what you want to do and then investigate what hardware and software you need to do it. I have some experience with HF digital modes such as RTTY, PSK, Olivia, MT63, and even Hellschreiber. You have mentioned using PACTOR which is a mode I'm not familiar with. I do see that on the SignaLink software page, which lists software that the SignaLink is known to be compatible with, there are only two programs listed that will do PACTOR.

 

[khooke]

I think you've already had some good advice in this thread already, but just wanted to add my 2c as someone who also uses a Mac for digital modes.

I haven't used CrossOver, but for some windows apps, I have found that Wine (using WineBottler) worked ok for me. I believe CrossOver is a packaged version of Wine. I successfully used it to run the Windows version of JT65-HF on my Mac, before I switched to the Mac version of WSJT-X. It worked fine with a USB Rigblaster, which is a USB soundcard interface similar to your Signalink.

However, I did struggle to get it working initially, trying to work out which soundcard input/output was which, and getting it configured so I was using the right one. Once I'd worked it out by trial and error it worked fine.

I wanted to reply to the thread though and mention that Wine is a Windows API conversion/compatibility layer and is not the same as running a complete Windows installation on your Mac using virtualization software like VMware, Parallels, or Virtual Box (which is free btw). For the few Windows apps that I do use with my radios (only Packet software at this point, everything else I have found Mac native software that works great), you will have much better luck installing a real copy of Windows (7 or 8) in a virtual machine on your Mac and running it that way. With that approach the WIndows software that you install in your Windows virtual machine will run just as it would as if running on a Windows installation installed directly on your hardware, and from my experience this is the easiest way to use an Windows software that you need to run on your Mac with minimal issues.

My main Mac software that I use for all other digital modes on the Mac (other than Packet, which is the only thing I use Windows for), is FLDigi, the Mac version runs great with a USB soundcard interface like the Signalink or Rigblaster on the Mac.