Air Force: Budget Cuts Could Affect Flight Hours, Training, Air Shows

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KE5TLF

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It occurs to me that you see nothing about what it would actually COST to stand down either one these large teams. They talk about saving so much, but dismantling a team the size of the Blues or Tbirds is going to be a coslty and time consuming undertaking initially too. Then if they stand them back up in a few years there is another several million down the tubes. Where's a reporter actually worth a flip to investigate and report on this situation from that angle?

Then there's the immediate loss of millions from the economies of the various show locations.

Not that I know much of anything about economic matters, but it seems to me that a move like this would take quite a while to have any real impact on the federal budget, while in turn having a VERY REAL, almost immediate, negative impact on the various local economies affected.
 

KB7MIB

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Yea, I believe Luke AFB, in Glendale, AZ has canceled their open house.
 

AB4BF

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I noticed yesterday, Feb 24, at the start of the Daytona 500, there was no flyover of any branch and nothing was even said about it (just a close up of Erin Andrews red pants).

However, during the Nationwide series race, before the race, Austin Dillon was shown riding with the Thunderbirds, and the T-birds were shown to be at the airport at the Daytona 500. I don't know if that was where they really were, but it was implied. I was expecting a flyover of the Thunderbirds before the 500 from earlier implications. Disappointing.

I'm wondering if the traditional flyover before the start of a NASCAR race is now a thing of the past.
 

BMT

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T-BIRDS were at Daytona IAPand were last monitored over the Gulf headed West.

BMT
 

TedRHayes

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I noticed yesterday, Feb 24, at the start of the Daytona 500, there was no flyover of any branch and nothing was even said about it (just a close up of Erin Andrews red pants).

However, during the Nationwide series race, before the race, Austin Dillon was shown riding with the Thunderbirds, and the T-birds were shown to be at the airport at the Daytona 500. I don't know if that was where they really were, but it was implied. I was expecting a flyover of the Thunderbirds before the 500 from earlier implications. Disappointing.

I'm wondering if the traditional flyover before the start of a NASCAR race is now a thing of the past.

I did hear today on NASCAR Radio that the low ceiling prevented them from performing the fly-over. I was disappointed.


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KE5TLF

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Sequestration 2013 To Possibly End Future Military Flyovers At NASCAR Events, Government Spending Cuts In Effect On March 1 : US : Sports World Report

This is beyond stupid. The majority of these involve craft/pilots that are going to be flying anyway. It incurs absolutely no additional expense in any way shape or form.

I forget the exact race last year, but it was one out west that there was a flyover by Meridian, MS T-45's. Those T-45's didn't fly all the way from MS to AZ/NV/wherever it was, just to perform a flyover. They just so happened to be in the area due to their normal CCX training, most likely.
 

AZScanner

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As others have said, the military grounding their demonstration teams and cancelling air shows is just their way of trying to get the public riled up about the "cuts" to their budgets.

Why did I put "cuts" in quotes? Because they're not really cuts! They are simply spending less borrowed money than they were originally going to spend. Imagine your wife, headed out to buy shoes. Instead of using the credit card to buy ten pairs, you tell her she's only allowed to buy 9 pairs so you can brag to your buddies at work that you "saved" money by doing that. That's not really a spending CUT is it? It's just less of a spending SPREE. That's what this sequestration is, and even that is too much of a "cut" for most tax and spend politicians in Washington, who are now beating their chests and blaming each other for the terrible, tragic "cuts".

The whole thing is a big fat joke and a lie to the American people. These BS politicians aren't saving us anything. All they're doing is pouring less gas on the mountain of money that they are continually burning so that the fire lasts longer. If they were really serious about saving money they'd pass a balanced budget amendment and stop borrowing more money. That will never happen until the rest of the world cuts up our "credit card" and we are FORCED to stop borrowing. And will we pay off our debt when that happens? Probably not. We probably won't have the money by then. So the only alternative will be to go to war with whoever holds the tab - I'm guessing China.

I honestly don't have much faith in our country making it into the next century at the rate we are going. I think we're headed the way of the former Soviet Union who have long ago broken up into small individual countries. Here's a toast to the late great USA, from the Future Sovereign Nation of Arizona! ;)

-AZ
 

Squad10

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I honestly don't have much faith in our country making it into the next century at the rate we are going. I think we're headed the way of the former Soviet Union who have long ago broken up into small individual countries. Here's a toast to the late great USA, from the Future Sovereign Nation of Arizona! ;)

-AZ



Here's my toast back at ya for the late great USA, with appreciation that I've lived to experience a past part of it. And, I'd wager part of my post tax earnings that the Sovereign Nation of Arizona would ALWAYS put on one heck of a SNA air force Air Show.
 

Nasby

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Dayton, Ohio newspaper reported today that the Thunderbirds appearance at the Dayton Airshow this year is in serious jeopardy.
 

mmckenna

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Sort of an interesting thread. The air force complaining about not being able to do training and air shows starts to sound a little ridiculous from my point of view.
Back in the 90's I was in the Coast Guard. We were always underfunded. I remember having to fish for dinner on an operational ship. I remember having to make do with old Navy discarded equipment, I remember having to recycle, repurpose, scrounge, everything and anything, just to keep running. This wasn't for training though, we rarely had time to train because we were so busy actually doing our job. We didn't put on shows or demonstrations because we were all to busy and we didn't have the assets to spare for this sort of nonsense.

As for the air shows being a way to give back to the tax payers, I'd rather they not do the air shows and not spend taxpayer dollars on them. But to be fair, I know you guys are big fans of this stuff, and this is just my own opinion.

From my point of view it seems like a silly thing to be complaining about.
 

hamstang

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"As for the air shows being a way to give back to the tax payers, I'd rather they not do the air shows and not spend taxpayer dollars on them. But to be fair, I know you guys are big fans of this stuff, and this is just my own opinion.

From my point of view it seems like a silly thing to be complaining about."[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your opinion. I think it is worth noting the fact that airshows in the US draw MILLIONS of attendees each year. No small thing.
 
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KC2zZe

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Those "millions" of attendees can continue to turn out to the shows - to enjoy the private / commerical flight demo teams that appear. I have two hats I can wear in this discussion: one as an attendee of shows enjoyed in years past (at Stewart International and Albany) or another as a taxpayer. The taxpayer hat must win out. As AZScanner points out above, this sequestration "cuts" nonsense is a lie. It's simply a reduction in the rate of the budget increase. We need true cuts to stem the flow of red ink from Washington, D.C. (i.e.: shutting down the US Education Department, shrinking the Social Security Administration, desolving the EPA, closing down most elements of the Energy Department, cutting back, if not closing the VOA, Radio Liberty, et al [to keep this post radio related], eliminating foreign aid - you get the picture). And, yes, mothballing military flight demo teams.

Every penny adds up. Your future, my future, and every other poster's on this thread future is in grave risk because our national debt.
 
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Squad10

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Those "millions" of attendees can continue to turn out to the shows - to enjoy the private / commerical flight demo teams that appear. I have two hats I can wear in this discussion: one as an attendee of shows enjoyed in years past (at Stewart International and Albany) or another as a taxpayer. The taxpayer hat must win out. As AZScanner points out above, this sequestration "cuts" nonsense is a lie. It's simply a reduction in the rate of the budget increase. We need true cuts to stem the flow of red ink from Washington, D.C. (i.e.: shutting down the US Education Department, shrinking the Social Security Administration, desolving the EPA, closing down most elements of the Energy Department, cutting back, if not closing the VOA, Radio Liberty, et al [to keep this post radio related], eliminating foreign aid - you get the picture). And, yes, mothballing military flight demo teams.

Every penny adds up. Your future, my future, and every other poster's on this thread future is in grave risk because our national debt.

It's the Government Air Show entitlement hat or taxpayer hat decision.

You said it well.
 

Token

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I did hear today on NASCAR Radio that the low ceiling prevented them from performing the fly-over. I was disappointed.


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This past weekends Cup race was also a mil flyover no-show, instead they had a Commemorative Air Force B-17 do a fly over, it got all of 3 seconds of broadcast air time. While I really like warbirds they simply do not have the punch and feel of a military fly over.

As for discussions of if taxpayer money should be used for this, I understand that every penny can count. However, military air crews must maintain proficiency, and part of this is simple flight time, to and from locations and into and out of certain kinds of airspace. Combining such required training with flyovers is often no more than scheduling the times to coincide. The positive public response and confidence in the US defensive forces these types of things inspire is well worth the meager effort, and essentially no extra cost, required, in my opinion. Airshows, of course, are a slightly different matter, being almost pure cost and propaganda, regardless of how much I like them and would like to see them continue. While I believe they deliver much needed positive publicity I also understand their function is completely secondary to the real mission of US forces, and should, in my opinion, be one of the early reductions.

T!
 

Token

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Most of that is USN scare tactics honestly. They're trying to keep their big budget and the Blue Angels are an iconic image that the public relates to.

Or possibly not.

SECNAV put out a directive 3 days ago ( Department of the Navy Response to Sequestration ) saying that they will announce the intent to cancel Blue Angel air shows in April, all of them. Talking with folks who have traditionally been in the loop these shows will be canceled one month at a time, if no budget by the beginning of April then May will be canceled, etc. Naturally, if the budget or a continuing resolution comes through they can be reinitiated. The Blues will continue to train, but at a somewhat reduced level.

Other things addressed in the same directive are the shutting down of Carrier Air Wing Two (CVW-2) and to initiate stand down flying (read this as slowly shut down) 3 additional air wings and reducing readiness levels in 2 more wings by the end of the FY. That makes 6 wings that will either be shut down or reduced to a less ready status, the only one named in the directive was CVW-2. If I had to guess I would say CVW-9 and CVW-11 are on the block, reducing Lemoore to nothing at all and paving the way to shutdown of that facility.

They will also be returning early from deployment several ships, and not deploying many more, including several involved in humanitarian efforts in “Continuing Promise 2013”. The deployment of the USS Harry Truman (CVN-75) is on hold, and may not happen this year at all.

Planned maintenance of several important warships will not be done. This includes refueling the Lincoln (CVN-72) and major yard work for several other ships.

Scheduled introductory flight screening for pilots and Naval Flight Officers has been terminated and will not happen this month. This means they are already, today, slowing down the pipeline for pilot and NFO training.

As of right now Navy recruiting media support is terminated for the month of March, any funds not already obligated are not authorized to be spent.

At the local command level, vs the Navy wide level, reductions in spending have been going on for over a month. For example procurement of a $2000 critical need, single point of failure, part to support a multi 10’s of millions of dollar radar system used to be able to be authorized at the O-2 level and below, now it is requiring authorization at the O-6 level and above. This is only one example, suffice to say local commands have been spinning down spending in preparation of this for at least 2 months now.

Yes, the Navy has a big budget. As the primary power projection arm of US policy it has some of the most expensive items to maintain. But make no mistake, the cuts that have been ramping up have already reduced capability. I know some units that have not purchased spares in 2 or more years, they are running on their existing spares and when those run out there is not currently a budget to procure more. At this point the impact is very, very small, but as time goes on the impact will become larger and larger. In the end the reduced maintenance that aircraft and similar hardware will receive will reduce their overall lifespan, meaning that not only will the readiness be somewhat impacted in the short term (although proper management will make this small at first), but the required replacement of some major items of hardware will be accelerated. It is quite likely that loss to hardware failures will rise.

T!
 
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caz345

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USAF THUNDERBIRDS Grounded for 2013 season , due to budget cuts, they did say if they have funds available they may do a couple shows in 2013. Luke AFB says that the show cost the base a little over $200,000 to put on, they get on the plus side of 150,000 visitors for the show so I dont know why the bases cant charge $5 admission to the air show they would actually make money on it and a lot of people wouldnt have a problem paying for admission.
 
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