R30 Any news regarding DMR support for R30/R8600?

[woodpecker]

No need to try and make mine drift. It brings in what I need it to, right on the desired frequency, even way below S9 and that's all that matters

The point here is that you are misinforming people, just becuase what you use it for doesn't show the drift does not mean your unit doesn't drift, they all drift, they all have the ridiculous oscillator jumping routine in the firmware, you are leading others to believe they might get a unit that doesn't drift, its fake news

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

No misinformation, I'm simply stating I'm happy with mine, I'm entitled to my opinion as is everyone else here, take it or leave it. I'm not denying the issue exists. Sorry if it doesn't jive with what you or others have experienced. I fully understand everyone uses their radios in different ways, what works for me might not work for others. I took the gamble, knowing what others have reported & I guess I got lucky with mine.

73!

 

[mikewazowski]

Perhaps we can get back to the OP's original question instead of arguing whether someone's radio drifts?

Thanks.

 

[woodpecker]

To answer the original question, it is unlikely Icom will ever add DMR as they want customers to buy their iDas NXDN products, this makes these Icom digital receivers a worthless product in Europe where 90%+ of business digital radio is DMR.

 

[wb4sqi]

Maybe I'm being simple minded here but if the 8600 is an SDR above 30 MHz then it seems like a dedicated hacker could add the necessary algorithms to the firmware to add DMR, unless there is a hardware requirement that I don't know about.

If Whistler and Uniden can do it in their scanners it seems like all it needs is "new" or updated firmware. Lots of hackers over on GitHub, looks like someone there would take up the challenge.

 

[prcguy]

Absolutely, but your looking at hundreds and hundreds or more man hours to add a new waveform and that's after the hacker fully understands all the DMR specs, internal code, and work flow needed. I worked at Hughes Aircraft in the 80s and 90s when they obtained the Magnavox military radio group in Fort Wayne, IN and some of the guys in my group got tasked to add the SINCGARS waveform to the AN PSC-5 manpack radio. It took several really sharp guys well versed in DSP coding a couple of months to complete the job.

Maybe I'm being simple minded here but if the 8600 is an SDR above 30 MHz then it seems like a dedicated hacker could add the necessary algorithms to the firmware to add DMR, unless there is a hardware requirement that I don't know about.

If Whistler and Uniden can do it in their scanners it seems like all it needs is "new" or updated firmware. Lots of hackers over on GitHub, looks like someone there would take up the challenge.

 

[wb4sqi]

Absolutely, but your looking at hundreds and hundreds or more man hours to add a new waveform and that's after the hacker fully understands all the DMR specs, internal code, and work flow needed.

The waveform programming technology exists, look at how simple it is to run Unitrunker, SDR# and a multitude of other packages on an el cheapo receiver to trunk and decode. Also, I didn't say it would be easy, but I'm sure none of the above mentioned programs began as an easy project, more of big challenge. I'm not a programmer and stand in awe of people that can sit for hours and write code to make things happen in a software defined receiver so that is the basis for my simple minded concept.

 

[rumcajs_tr]

Well, it's technicaly (HW side) ready, as the AMBE+2 chip is installed in the R8600 and used for other digital modes decoding. However, enabling DMR decode would be extremely hard as it requires not only enabling the decoding, but also integrating the controls to the R8600s user interface (touch controls etc) which would require to disassemble the code. I doubt anyone is even capable to do it without deep knowledge about the code and insider info from ICOM factory.
I am pretty sure, that during product development, ICOM has internally worked on DMR decoding and have the option ready , they just made a commercial decission not to integrate/sell it with the product. So I guess it is available, but hidden somewhere in Japan

 

[Citywide173]

That "News" is the best part of a decade old, it really is time Icom woke up to the fact that digital receivers without DMR are useless in a lot of places.

You are looking at it from a consumer point of view. How many R30's do they sell vs. how many LMR products? Icom has hitched their horse to the NXDN wagon as an overall business model, not just in their receivers. Would the licensing fees to include DMR in the R30 and R8600 be a profitable venture? I'm sure some actuarial looked at it and decided that it was not a good financial decision in the overall best interests of the company.

 

[prcguy]

Just looking at the R30 and R8600 products, if Icom would include DMR in these I suspect sales would double.

You are looking at it from a consumer point of view. How many R30's do they sell vs. how many LMR products? Icom has hitched their horse to the NXDN wagon as an overall business model, not just in their receivers. Would the licensing fees to include DMR in the R30 and R8600 be a profitable venture? I'm sure some actuarial looked at it and decided that it was not a good financial decision in the overall best interests of the company.

 

[Citywide173]

Just looking at the R30 and R8600 products, if Icom would include DMR in these I suspect sales would double.

You're probably right, but I somehow think that even doubling sales would not make it a profitable venture for them. In my opinion, their statement on DMR makes it appear that the issue they have is with ETSI, not DMR as a standardand there's probably much more of a backstory than just the licensing fees.

 

[woodpecker]

You're probably right, but I somehow think that even doubling sales would not make it a profitable venture for them. In my opinion, their statement on DMR makes it appear that the issue they have is with ETSI, not DMR as a standardand there's probably much more of a backstory than just the licensing fees.

I don't think ETSI is the issue as they support dPMR which is an ETSI standard as decribed in TS 102 490 and TS 102 658, I think its more that they don't want to implement DMR as they see it as losing face to Motorola, its a sad situation, other companies like Kenwood are moving forward producing Nexedge and DMR kit but Icom have their heels dug it seems.

 

[vince48]

Guys,


its too bad Icom has chosen not too include DMR. I'm not sure if it is a cultural thing or just stubbornness of their decision makers. It's obvious that our little niche market (hobbyist) does not count much if at all to Icom. But, we keep buying their high cost products, thus no motivation to include or expand the the IC-R8600.


Like their remote software, grossly over priced and half baked at that. The arrogance of Icom to not let 3rd party developers write usable software to take advantage of the 8600's scanning and other nice features is just plain dumb. But we keep buying their products.

 

[Hit_Factor]

Just looking at the R30 and R8600 products, if Icom would include DMR in these I suspect sales would double.

But perhaps it would erode sales of other products. As we all know, the R30 and R8600 is a small, possibly smallest, part of their product offerings.

Calling them dumb, arrogant, or stubborn is (as in post #33) and then paying for "high priced" and "half baked" is really just a reflection on the author of the post.

 

[vince48]

Yes, it is my personal opinion

 

[rumcajs_tr]

But, we keep buying their high cost products, thus no motivation to include or expand the the IC-R8600.

Well, at least for me, I am not buying the IC-R8600 or IC-R30 unless DMR is supported. So one customer less. And I am pretty sure that there are plenty customers like me.
Regarding the "small market" - please, understand thar for Icom comm receivers, WE ARE THE ONLY MARKET, so from the sales to receiver enthusiasts and HAMs, they get paid their development costs.
I am pretty sure that the sales would increase rapidly with DMR support, however, it may never happen.

 

[Citywide173]

I don't think ETSI is the issue as they support dPMR which is an ETSI standard as decribed in TS 102 490 and TS 102 658, I think its more that they don't want to implement DMR as they see it as losing face to Motorola, its a sad situation, other companies like Kenwood are moving forward producing Nexedge and DMR kit but Icom have their heels dug it seems.

You may be right on ETSI, but the statement:

Do not be misled by anyone, including the DMR Association website

Leads me to believe that there is a distinct battle going on somewhere.

 

[IC-R20]

You may be right on ETSI, but the statement:



Leads me to believe that there is a distinct battle going on somewhere.

Yes they are acting like butthurt pedantic little manchildren. There was even a blog article by some Icom rep or something a while back raging about how DMR was taking over ham radio and how we need to use Dstar mode instead. Very regressive. Someone over there really needs to get over themselves and grow up.

Other than the outdated lack of DMR from childish refusal it is a pretty decent portable receiver with good front end for crowded RF environments and has p25. Which is really the only reason I ordered one since the AOR handheld was really subpar.

 

[tumegpc]

I'm holding off on purchasing the Icom 8600 until there is some sort of DMR. As soon as there is a beta version, I'll be buying.

 

[Citywide173]

I'm holding off on purchasing the Icom 8600 until there is some sort of DMR. As soon as there is a beta version, I'll be buying.

So, in other words, you won't be buying it. They've been stubborn for the better part of a decade and, despite numerous pleas from consumers, it doesn't look like that will change. Get the 8600, use it (as an SDR) with your computer for DMR and if they do cave, it will just be an update/upgrade.