Avon Fire System On The Air

[wd8chl]

Mixed 700 / 800 systems frequently run in Phase 1 (or Phase 1 to accommodate older equipment, and Phase 2 for newer equipment - or Phase 1 for Fire and Phase 2 for police and services,) but pure 700 systems are supposed to be 6.25 equivalent by 2024 as the rule was relaxed a few years ago. Building out a new 700 system and not having it 6.25 compliant would be irresponsible. Note that our statewide 700 system runs primarily in Phase 2, but a few channels per site have DDM to accommodate older equipment for mutual aid purposes. New users who join the system must use Phase 2 subscribers.

Well, Ohio has no plans to go to PII at all, especially since the costs of doing so would be astronomical, between replacing/upgrading all of the infrastructure, and replacing nearly all of the user equipment as well. We're talking many billions of dollars. Not happening.
But yes, MARCS is mixed 700/800, and they were one of the first in the country to use 700 MHz. Maybe some sort of grandfathering?

 

[maus92]

Well, Ohio has no plans to go to PII at all, especially since the costs of doing so would be astronomical, between replacing/upgrading all of the infrastructure, and replacing nearly all of the user equipment as well. We're talking many billions of dollars. Not happening.
But yes, MARCS is mixed 700/800, and they were one of the first in the country to use 700 MHz. Maybe some sort of grandfathering?

I expect that there will be many non-compliant systems, and nobody is going to take current operators off-the-air. But new 700 only systems (like Avon / Lorain) are going to be TDMA / 6.25 equivalent moving forward, particularly since 3 channels probably isn't enough to support modern firefighting ops in a county of 300K / city area of 50K or so. There are ways to manage the equivalency on mixed systems, btw. Interesting that this system (Avon / Lorain) is using freqs licensed to Avon and not the county.

 

[medic5399]

North Ridgeville just approved their joining. Correct name should be "5 City Radio System"

 

[mtindor]

North Ridgeville just approved their joining. Correct name should be "5 City Radio System"

I did change the name. I found a document referencing "a five city radio system", whihc would not be a reason to call it that. But I found another that specifically called it "5-City Radio System". So I changed it. I also limited the scope/range (based upon the simulcast itself and the boundaries of the five cities it is supposedly going to cover. If they add more cities later, then lat/long/range will be adjusted at that point.

 

[kf8yk]

I did change the name. I found a document referencing "a five city radio system", which would not be a reason to call it that. But I found another that specifically called it "5-City Radio System".

This system is doomed, everybody knows the first thing you do when setting up a new system is to create an acronym to name it like MARCS, STARnet, SAFE-T.

Here's some suggestions:

Trunking Uniting Regional Departments

City Radio Aggregation Project

Trunking Ridgeville Avon SHeffield

 

[wa8pyr]

I expect that there will be many non-compliant systems, and nobody is going to take current operators off-the-air. But new 700 only systems (like Avon / Lorain) are going to be TDMA / 6.25 equivalent moving forward, particularly since 3 channels probably isn't enough to support modern firefighting ops in a county of 300K / city area of 50K or so.

Correct, if you're putting up a new system it makes sense to go Phase II, but there are plenty out there which aren't and never will be. However, there is no requirement to do so; the narrowbanding mandate for 700 MHz was waived by the FCC in R&O 14-172. That's not to say it couldn't get revisited, though the last I heard it was going to be eliminated altogether.

There are ways to manage the equivalency on mixed systems, btw. Interesting that this system (Avon / Lorain) is using freqs licensed to Avon and not the county.

Not uncommon; there are several systems in Ohio alone (and certainly many others across the country) where a system started out licensed to a single entity and expanded countywide.

 

[RT48]

North Ridgeville just approved their joining. Correct name should be "5 City Radio System"

Here's an article about last night's approval.

North Ridgeville to get on board with 5-city radio system plan

Council considered joining nearby communities Avon, Avon Lake, Sheffield and Sheffield Lake in the 5-city radio proposal earlier this year, but in September did not have enough votes to approve the legislation.

chroniclet.com

 

[maus92]

Never say never lol. Around here, there are no more 800 channels available (at least without interference issues) and 700 channels have been allocated. The only way our county can get more talkpaths is to move to TDMA on its existing 800 channels. Happens in 2022. But it is a different model around here as the county provides the radios to the VFDs at no charge (one for each riding position on first line apparatus,) and owns and operates the infrastructure.

 

[mtindor]

Man, we really need at least one person to submit at least one bonafide / verified talkgroup. Otherwise, the system in the DB is not going to show up Sentinel for people to download into their Unidens.

Nobody has been able to pin down a talkgroup yet?

 

[radios4bill]

I heard someone talking to a chief on 1198 yesterday.

 

[tweiss3]

Next time I'm up there I will run a discovery for as long as I'm in the area. Not sure when that will be.

 

[wa8pyr]

I heard someone talking to a chief on 1198 yesterday.

That should be sufficient for submission to get the ball rolling. Just submit it as Fire, you can flesh out the details later.

 

[bcahill0423]

Can this be combined under the Parma, Medina systems in the database instead of calling it the 5 city radio system?

 

[maus92]

Can this be combined under the Parma, Medina systems in the database instead of calling it the 5 city radio system?

I believe 5 Cities is the official name, although maybe not all the participants have signed on as of yet.

 

[wd8chl]

Can this be combined under the Parma, Medina systems in the database instead of calling it the 5 city radio system?

From all I see, this will not be part of that system. It's a standalone.

 

[wd8chl]

I believe 5 Cities is the official name, although maybe not all the participants have signed on as of yet.

Also, the VHF system they are and have been using (154.400) has been called the "5-city" channel for a couple decades now, so it makes sense. However, there was a change to "NE Fire" several years ago, but many still call it 5-city, even though there is only 4 cities using it...
NE Fire follows the other regions in the county-NW Fire is 154.37, includes Vermilion (even though they are UHF, there is a repeater in town that gets used when they call for mutual aid), Wakeman, and some of the surrounding Twp's. Then there is SW Fire (151.025), mostly Wellington and Oberlin, and SE Fire (154.92), mostly Grafton, Columbia, and such.
Ya know, it used to be that all of Lorain Co fire was on 154.37 simplex, except for Lorain and Elyria. So you could have 4-channel radio, and be able to talk to anyone in the county. That is what interoperability is supposed to be. Not 27 zones of 16 channels each!

 

[rcid1971]

From all I see, this will not be part of that system. It's a standalone.

Though it’s interesting their Site ID seems to follow the Cleveland Communications L3 system logic.

 

[mtindor]

Though it’s interesting their Site ID seems to follow the Cleveland Communications L3 system logic.

That's because they are using the Cleveland Communications core, just like ottawa, parma, medina, etc. The reason why Huron Co and 5 City are split out from the Parma / Medina / Ottawa / Brooklyn Hgts system is because they are using a different System ID and there is no known roaming between the systems. I guess that could change down the road. But for now that's why Huron Co and 5-City are separate systems in the DB.

System ID: 018 WACN: 00001 - Parma / Medina / Ottawa / Brooklyn Hgts
System ID: 039 WACN: 00001 - Huron Co
System ID: 047 WACN: 00001 - 5 City

Mike

 

[medic5399]

North Ridgeville FD is now live on the new system!

 

[mtindor]

North Ridgeville FD is now live on the new system!

Is everyone using the one fire talkgroup in the DB ( 4501 ), or are they using their own talkgroup? If they are using their own talkgroup, what is it? I haven't seen anybody submit a single talkgroup since 4501 was submitted.

Mike