Becoming an FCC frequency coordinator

[mmckenna]

YouTube/Forum learning won't get you far. Not trying to pop your dream bubble, just making sure you have a dose of reality before you get too far into this.

I've had to hire quite a few people in my time. The YouTube/Forum trained techs really stand out on resumes and don't make it past the initial review. You need real world hands on experience, starting with the basics. Best place to get that is at an established shop. Focus your efforts on getting a job there. They'll have the resources to train you, and you'll get exposed to the good stuff that builds experience. You are 19, you've got time. This is the point in your life where you want to build up your hands on experience, even if that means doing the menial stuff around the shop. That'll give you the real knowledge/understanding that will be important as you grow into any career.

 

[knockoffham]

A lot of engineering students blow off English and communications skills my self included. The nuances (inconsistencies) of English grammar rules, taught by instructors who feel 2+2 = 4.9 because it's poetic and being required to write a 5 page essay on a one page subject runs contrary to the mind of an engineer. We're short, sweet and to the point people. BUT

After nearly 60 years in the field, I found myself writing reports, proposals and public speaking defending my work, opinions and recommendations. On graduation, I found in interviewing major electronics firms were really interested in engineers with good communications skills. One said they had a cubicles of great engineers in the back room they wouldn't dare place in front of a customer because they couldn't communicate.

In my 50s I went back to college to retake English grammar and composition that I originally blew off. So my recommendation is; work hard and ace those English classes the first time even though it my be painful! Good Luck.

My mom engraved communication and English grammar skills in me from a young age, she worked in the medical research field. I ended up placing out of some of my college English classes. But I have taken some writing classes and have a few more to do. Thanks!

 

[knockoffham]

YouTube/Forum learning won't get you far. Not trying to pop your dream bubble, just making sure you have a dose of reality before you get too far into this.

I've had to hire quite a few people in my time. The YouTube/Forum trained techs really stand out on resumes and don't make it past the initial review. You need real world hands on experience, starting with the basics. Best place to get that is at an established shop. Focus your efforts on getting a job there. They'll have the resources to train you, and you'll get exposed to the good stuff that builds experience. You are 19, you've got time. This is the point in your life where you want to build up your hands on experience, even if that means doing the menial stuff around the shop. That'll give you the real knowledge/understanding that will be important as you grow into any career.

Thank you. I guess I haven’t been clear but I intend on trying to find relevant hands on experience and keeping this business very small until I can build up good experience and a resume. There’s just not many opportunities around me and radio is one of the few things that holds my attention span for many hours. Basically, I would like to find a few customers, provide them with small simple setups, have that to put on a resume, go to find a relevant job and gain more experience, and then transition back to this business if it’s plausible. But yes it is all still theoretical at this point and I am still planning. Thank you for all the great advice

 

[knockoffham]

As someone who started in the LMR business when he was 17 back in the early 1990s, the way to learn is from those who do and getting one's hands directly in the pot. This isn't an industry where one can watch a 15 minute YouTube video and learn how to tune duplexers, perform receiver isolation/sensitivity tests via the ISO-T method, track down RFI, or anything else that comes from decades of boots on the ground experience. Many veterans have spoken up so there is no need to rehash, but it also goes without saying this industry is in a state of change right now. In addition to being an RF expert, one should also learn IP, Linux, a CCNA wouldn't hurt, and LTE/broadband as convergence of the two is here and not a fad that is going away.

Vehicle upfitting is a high profit part of the business but one that needs to be done right or a shop will seal their reputation as being schmucks and doing it wrong can get someone hurt or killed.

In short, this is not a business that one jumps into. Most successful shops have been in business for decades, have established high paying customers (county/city/state govs) and others have been gobbled up by Bearcomm.

Basically I want to start very small- portable, simplex, modify existing setups (like changing an analog system to DMR while retaining existing towers, antennas, frequencies so only emission designator has to change). I’ll continue providing customer service, and seek employment experience in a relevant field with “started small radio communications business” on resume. I’ll get as much experience as I can under another employer, and return to this business part-time with an adjacent engineering career. I am someone who loves learning, and don’t plan on just jumping into the thick of it because yeah that is liability I don’t have the expertise to hold. I know it definitely isn’t coming across in my messages but I am ready for lots of hard work, disappointment, and further learning and experience before I am actually capable of a proper LMR business.

 

[knockoffham]

There used to be a magazine called Mobile Radio Technology. It has morphed into a magazine called Urgent Communications. MRT used to have a regular column that discussed the life of a mythical character known as "Radio Man". Radio Man had been in the field side of the land mobile industry for many years and had gained much experience. Radio Man could find his way around an IFR 1200 or Motorola R2200 with his eyes closed while wedged behind an equipment rack. Radio Man was counted on to solve problems in the field using his knowledge and experience. Radio Man was pretty much ignored by his superiors except when problems arose. Radio Man eventually retired and hung up his tools. It was then that his superiors realized how much they had relied on Radio Man and how little of his knowledge had been passed onto a younger generation.

I believe that becoming a Radio Man is much like an apprenticeship. Nobody learns the stuff that Radio Man knows overnight. And, you don't get it from "book learnin'". You have to put in the time, hands on, under the tutelage of a more experienced Radio Man. Getting that first job may be the toughest part of becoming Radio Man.

Radio Man retired to a community far away from me, and yes much of the knowledge with him. This venture may be a trial by fire. I’ve been having so much trouble finding that first job, I figured, hey why not make it for myself? Best case, it becomes a profitable business and I can provide customers with great service, honesty, and the least convoluted process for getting 2 way radio. Worst case, I am a doofus with too high of aspirations and it fails and I am deservedly seen as an ass in a sea of “I told you so”. I fall back on my engineering degree and forget LMR for the time being.

 

[AK9R]

Are there any large city, county, or state police/fire/rescue agencies near you? They might have their own radio shop to maintain their gear. That might be a place to look for a job.

 

[nd5y]

Governments are not going to hire a 19 year old with no experience to be a radio technician.
Maybe if you are a relative of an elected official or political appointee and depending on how corrupt your local governments are.

 

[ecps92]

Governments are not going to hire a 19 year old with no experience to be a radio technician.
Maybe if you are a relative of an elected official or political appointee and depending on how corrupt your local governments are.

He should apply as an UNPAID or PAID Intern, see if any Radio Shops would do that to get him learning

 

[knockoffham]

Are there any large city, county, or state police/fire/rescue agencies near you? They might have their own radio shop to maintain their gear. That might be a place to look for a job.

All public safety around me is on Michigan’s trunked system. I don’t know if MPSCS has an office nearby, and as nd5y said my chances are probably zero but I might as well try. I’m trying to get a radio technician job with my university, but the layers of bureaucracy are making it very hard.
Edit: I found a nearby MPSCS radio service center, I might try my luck

 

[freddaniel]

Don't forget about getting a Contractors License from your state. Here in California, any labor performed on real property over $600 requires a Contractor's License, if you want to get paid and enforce a judgement in court. A typical VHF base station install with a small tower would cost more than $600.
In California, there are licenses available for class-2 wiring so your state will likely have something less complex than a Electrical Contractor's license.

 

[knockoffham]

Don't forget about getting a Contractors License from your state. Here in California, any labor performed on real property over $600 requires a Contractor's License, if you want to get paid and enforce a judgement in court. A typical VHF base station install with a small tower would cost more than $600.
In California, there are licenses available for class-2 wiring so your state will likely have something less complex than a Electrical Contractor's license.

Yeah, I'm in the middle of all that licensing right now. I'm pretty sure the rules are the same in Michigan when it comes to contracting, I'm still waiting on approval for my LLC from the same body in my state that handles contractor's licenses. So when that is returned I will reach out and make sure I need one, since it seems that since I will have an LLC I might not need to be a contractor. It is somewhat confusing to me but thankfully I know people who can give me help and advice on the business aspect.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Hello, people of RadioReference. I am a college student pursuing a degree in electrical engineering, and currently am in the process of trying to start my own 2-way radio business. I am currently in the middle of getting business licenses, setting up finances, etc.. Part of the philosophy of my business I am trying to create is to be a one-stop-shop for 2 way radio: I want to handle evaluation of the customer's needs, what equipment would suit them best while being the most cost effective, and also handle radio/repeater programming, filing a license, and physically setting up/installing equipment... as well as frequency coordination. After about 30 minutes of scouring the internet, I cannot figure out how to become a frequency coordinator. Could anybody point me in the right direction for how I could do that? If this 2 way radio business ends up being feasible, I would hate to be having to farm out my clients to an external frequency coordinator that would have to be waited on. I am guessing that being a frequency coordinator involves lots of scouring the ULS, as well as knowledge of radio propagation, and occasionally math. Thank you to anyone who could point me in the right direction. Apologies if I am in the wrong forum.

Note that coordination is done by private entities with recognition from the FCC.

Frequency coordinator - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mmckenna]

So when that is returned I will reach out and make sure I need one, since it seems that since I will have an LLC I might not need to be a contractor.

In California, even if you are an LLC, you need a C7 low voltage license as well as a bond/insurance. Almost all the contractors I deal with at work also have a C10 electrical contractor license.

If you are just doing mobile installs and radio programming, that won't apply.

 

[bill4long]

...new GMRS licenses can’t be used for business anymore.

Not true. While GMRS licenses are not granted to business entities, GMRS can be used for business activity as long as all of the users are covered under a GMRS license.

 

[N4DES]

Not true. While GMRS licenses are not granted to business entities, GMRS can be used for business activity as long as all of the users are covered under a GMRS license.

Only if the business holds a grandfathered GMRS license. The FCC hasn't issued non-individual licenses since 1987 as stated below.

Any non-individual person that holds a grandfathered GMRS license may allow individuals to operate its grandfathered GMRS station(s) only in accordance with the following paragraphs:

(i) A partnership may allow its partners and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(ii) A corporation may allow its officers, directors, members and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(iii) An association may allow its members and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(iv) A governmental unit may allow its employees to operate its GMRS station(s).

g) Limitations on grandfathered GMRS licenses. GMRS licenses that were issued prior to July 31, 1987 authorized GMRS station operation at specified locations, on specified channels, and with specified antenna height and transmitter power. Grandfathered GMRS licenses authorize only continued operation of those specific stations by these licensees, at the specified locations, channels, antenna heights and transmitting power. The FCC does not accept applications to modify, assign, or transfer grandfathered GMRS licenses (other than administrative updates to change contact information).

 

[bill4long]

Only if the business holds a grandfathered GMRS license. The FCC hasn't issued non-individual licenses since 1987 as stated below.

Any non-individual person that holds a grandfathered GMRS license may allow individuals to operate its grandfathered GMRS station(s) only in accordance with the following paragraphs:

(i) A partnership may allow its partners and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(ii) A corporation may allow its officers, directors, members and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(iii) An association may allow its members and employees to operate its GMRS station(s).
(iv) A governmental unit may allow its employees to operate its GMRS station(s).

g) Limitations on grandfathered GMRS licenses. GMRS licenses that were issued prior to July 31, 1987 authorized GMRS station operation at specified locations, on specified channels, and with specified antenna height and transmitter power. Grandfathered GMRS licenses authorize only continued operation of those specific stations by these licensees, at the specified locations, channels, antenna heights and transmitting power. The FCC does not accept applications to modify, assign, or transfer grandfathered GMRS licenses (other than administrative updates to change contact information).

Completely irrelevant to what I posted.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Let me try again...

GMRS licenses are not granted to business entities, such as a LLCs, corporations, sole proprieterships, etc. XYZ corporation cannot be granted a GMRS license.

However, GMRS can be used for business activity as long as all of the users are covered under a GMRS license.

Why?

1. A GMRS license covers the licensee (and close family members.)
2. It allows inter-licensee (station) communication.
3. Nothing in Part 95 forbids business related activity among the licensees or those covered by a licensee's license (family members.)

Consider this scenario: XYZ business wants to use GMRS for business activity. Worst case (none of those involved in the business are family members.) Each person would have to get their own license and identify with their own call sign. They are completely free to discuss business matters as inter-station licensees. Nothing in the rules prohibits this.

I suggest reading the rules closely or contacting the FCC.

 

[knockoffham]

Not true. While GMRS licenses are not granted to business entities, GMRS can be used for business activity as long as all of the users are covered under a GMRS license.

Yeah I know but I feel that’s a ridiculous use case no business would want. One expensive license with private frequencies or a lot of cheap licenses for individual users with fully legal interference from whoever wants to

 

[knockoffham]

In California, even if you are an LLC, you need a C7 low voltage license as well as a bond/insurance. Almost all the contractors I deal with at work also have a C10 electrical contractor license.

If you are just doing mobile installs and radio programming, that won't apply.

I’m going for the low voltage license because even if I don’t need it (I think I do though) I’d at least like to be properly certified. It seems like the electrical contractor license won’t be necessary, and the kinds of things I’m thinking of doing won’t need their own breakers or circuits or anything an electrician needs to do, and if so I’d work it out with the client and outsource the work. I looked into that, that license requires me or an employee to be a master electrician.

 

[N4DES]

Completely irrelevant to what I posted.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Let me try again...

GMRS licenses are not granted to business entities, such as a LLCs, corporations, sole proprieterships, etc. XYZ corporation cannot be granted a GMRS license.

However, GMRS can be used for business activity as long as all of the users are covered under a GMRS license.

Why?

1. A GMRS license covers the licensee (and close family members.)
2. It allows inter-licensee (station) communication.
3. Nothing in Part 95 forbids business related activity among the licensees or those covered by a licensee's license (family members.)

Consider this scenario: XYZ business wants to use GMRS for business activity. Worst case (none of those involved in the business are family members.) Each person would have to get their own license and identify with their own call sign. They are completely free to discuss business matters as inter-station licensees. Nothing in the rules prohibits this.

I suggest reading the rules closely or contacting the FCC.

OK I see where you are coming from, but it would be less expensive (no coordinator required) to obtain a license using itinerant frequencies for the corporation. You can license nationwide in VHF, UHF, analog, digital (with encryption), mobiles, and repeaters. Here are examples:

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQXP535 - MOBILE-ONE COMMUNICATIONS AND ELECTRONICS INC

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQOT543 - THE EAGLES WINGS FOUNDATION, INC. - Frequencies Summary

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQFX919 - Boy Scouts of America

 

[bill4long]

Yeah I know but I feel that’s a ridiculous use case no business would want. One expensive license with private frequencies or a lot of cheap licenses for individual users with fully legal interference from whoever wants to

MURS is a good option in a lot for low power hand helds. Here in Indianapolis area, I've never heard anything on MURS channels 1 thru 3 around here. Of course, Walmart down the road can be found on channel 5 (without CTCSS or DCS.) A local uncontrolled airport uses MURS 4 for pilot services. Two dentists, a doctor, a used car lot, the YMCA and a couple of private schools use FRS around my neighbood to good effect. Surprisingly little personal FRS activity around here. Then there is the 900mhz by-rule spread spectrum, rarely used from that I can tell. For short range there are plently of "license free" (license by rule) options.

OK I see where you are coming from, but it would be less expensive (no coordinator required) to obtain a license using itinerant frequencies for the corporation. You can license nationwide in VHF, UHF, analog, digital (with encryption), mobiles, and repeaters. Here are examples:

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQXP535 - MOBILE-ONE COMMUNICATIONS AND ELECTRONICS INC

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQOT543 - THE EAGLES WINGS FOUNDATION, INC. - Frequencies Summary

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQFX919 - Boy Scouts of America

No doubt about it. I myself have a Land Mobile license for itinerant frequencies. $200 for ten years. That's just $20 a year. And I can use DMR, P25 digital, etc. For me it's the only way to fly for business.