Big Truck Radio 12V Source Upgrade

[W8HDU]

If it's at idle, I think I might be looking for the source with a scope or a meter which may measure AC down to millivolts. I'm surprised it's getting past the KLF-2. I use them on all our trucks, most of which are Gm 1500, 2500, and 3500 series. I'll have to quiz the operator of the Volvo VN 780, and see if he's noticed a whine on his radio. I don't hear it on his transmissions. Can you always hear it?

 

[slowmover]

If it's at idle, I think I might be looking for the source with a scope or a meter which may measure AC down to millivolts. I'm surprised it's getting past the KLF-2. I use them on all our trucks, most of which are Gm 1500, 2500, and 3500 series. I'll have to quiz the operator of the Volvo VN 780, and see if he's noticed a whine on his radio. I don't hear it on his transmissions. Can you always hear it?

I’m taking power off the POS/NEG feeds to the single fuse/relay center on a Class 8 Freightliner (MY20 Cascadia). My earlier experiments showed this to be as quiet as going straight to BATT, but with a harness more than 15’ shorter.

Those factory leads exit the cab running to BATT box and NEG frame stud.

I can detect whine with radio volume 3/4 the way to maximum. It’s not “loud”, but the test shows it ain’t dead quiet, either. (No KLF-2 present, a toroid over leads only).

— This is more an addition to the twinned Tactical Radio Carrier TRC-2 housing the passenger seat radio station than to the truck, per se.

— Power is divided twice. The first division takes 12V to a RigRunner 4005 to run lower amp draw devices such as the radio. (KLF-2 to be between POWERWERX PD75 and the 4005; Neg then goes back to PD75).

My installs feature Anderson PowerPole terminations. (Modularity). If I removed the lower TRC-2, DC could go straight to KLF-2 given a different feed than in use at present.

The “station” installed elsewhere (my pickup or in travel trailer) would have — ideally — general purpose DC Noise Filtration.

That the FTL has some noise makes (ha!) the grand excuse for a KLF-2 acquisition.

The quarter-mile dragster competition is:

SKIP Problems in Noise Abatement.

The discourtesy of screwing up AM-19. The understood Truckers Channel. Got 39 to 119 other channels before we consider freeband. The thread is not to whine and moan, but to introduce others new to CB how to deal with Skip overwhelming local comms. The exigencies of the road. Your experience...

forums.radioreference.com

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[slowmover]

Post #5

An upgrade to what’s shown.

Your fault (ha!).

I’ve reconfigured that passenger seat station so many times it’s my adult version of an Erector Set.

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[slowmover]

Easiest Jobs First

1). Power

FTL Cascadia is easy. Fuse Pos & Neg (12-AWG marine-grade under flame-resistant split loom) and use a second nut to attach at fuse panel feeds.

Run “into” of panel down by floor near grab handle (before adding fuses), then up A-pillar or across dash to that mount location.

(I’d cut a hole to run coax and power for dashtop. Find a plug beforehand to fit when gear removed).


2). External Speaker



Run a couple of sheetmetal screws with industrial Velcro super-glued to bracket and trim panel. Will need 15’ audio cable to either radio location.

— There’s real science to back this speaker location as being the best possible. It’ll up your game considerably.


These two jobs will constitute a significant upgrade in allowing the radio to work better.

CB will have taken a jump forward prior to any major expense.

—Next job is RF Bonded antenna mount plus (minimum) 6’ Skipshooter antenna.

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[slowmover]

(See post above)

Post in thread 'I guess channel 19 is dead??? what are the truck drivers doing now?'
I guess channel 19 is dead??? what are the truck drivers doing now?

Here is an example of best way to run clean power and higher quality coax. Thru-dash is shorter. Huge amount of space to route and secure against problems. (Example has high power cable which won’t be needed).

Given the damage trucks receive in normal service, this is unnoticeable. Leave the coax, and the 12V power as it’s a minor expense (is how I’ve done it given 12-AWG).

Order of Work

12V
Speaker
Coax
Antenna Mount
RF Bonds

Don’t spend on radio, antennas, etc until these are done.

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[slowmover]

Working on the pickup truck. Overhead install. Have routed power, now for distribution:



Wasn’t planning on using filter. But the PD75 and how to mount it was something else. The serendipity of having bought an item years ago and used once. This will be view from beneath. Radio will be offset to left.

Filter will feed radio only.

Power to devices will be cut for shortest length & PowerPoles attached once all is mounted.

Velcro between these two. Some zip ties. Then wood screws to attach to hardwood board thru headliner. (3) items powered; possibly (4).

Pos to BATT+ at about 10’, and Neg about 18” to header.

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[W8HDU]

Working on the pickup truck. Overhead install. Have routed power, now for distribution:

View attachment 163116

Wasn’t planning on using filter. But the PD75 and how to mount it was something else. The serendipity of having bought an item years ago and used once. This will be view from beneath. Radio will be offset to left.

Filter will feed radio only.

Power to devices will be cut for shortest length & PowerPoles attached once all is mounted.

Velcro between these two. Some zip ties. Then wood screws to attach to hardwood board thru headliner. (3) items powered; possibly (4).

Pos to BATT+ at about 10’, and Neg about 18” to header.

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I would enjoy hearing your perceptions of how this works. The only suppression system I've used was the Kenwood KLF-2.

 

[slowmover]

These $15 WORKMAN Bandit NF-20 (or NF40)
CBNF3AXX filters are truckstop items. Not same quality. After your alert and some more reading I’d prefer the KLF-2. This was right-size to mount PD-75 and was at hand.

My “test” will be with radio volume turned up to see if alternator can be heard. This truck pretty quiet with earlier temp installs.

Here’s a handy review:

After reverse engineering both the NF20 & NF40 models, I found both of "fairly" good design with the only difference being the NF40 has more filtering capacity on the second stage.

Both used the same wire gauges and coil values. The first stage for High Frequency noises and uses a air core coil and .01uF capacitor. The NF40 second stage is for Low Frequency noises and uses a iron core coil and (2) 16V 5600uF capacitors. The NF20 uses (1) 16V 6800uF capacitor.

Would have given a higher rating if the capacitors were rated @ 25V instead 16V and a little larger wire lead gauge. Voltage drop is approx 0.5V @ 10A, which is acceptable for most installs.

On one of my NF20 units, I found the Input & Output were labeled backwards. The colors were correct, just the wires were pushed through the wrong sides during assembly. I pulled the wires back out of the housing and reinserted them correctly

— If your unit has little to no affect on alternator whine type noises, try reversing the Input & Output. Never reverse the polarity of the Red & Black wires. If you open it up to verify correct assembly, the Input side Red wire should go to the little air core coil first.



Frankly, if I don’t like something about it I won’t electrically connect it. Mounting the PD-75 so that it won’t wobble is the priority.

— These leads cut short and heavier added as needed. .5V drop at 10A is performance-degrading.

First radio to go in is non-NRC. “Might” help.

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[slowmover]

For you truck drivers sitting on John Wayne Drive at the T/A waiting for laundry during a 34-reset, here’s the pic to confirm wiring is as should be for Input:



That this device (maybe all types) exerts a more than desirable 3% Voltage Drop means you’re best off by:

1). Keep power run shortest (especially Negative; test that ground at different, but close, positions).

2). Up-size wiring as best you can. I prefer 10-AWG, and don’t drop below 12-AWG. Marine-grade tinned copper with high strand count.

3). Add the sum of all fused devices and go up slightly if you can. This radio rig wired for 40A at 3% volt drop and it’s unlikely it’ll pull much more than 20A (used the cable I had on hand). Fused for 20 I usually aim at 30 (as there will be losses).

Critical Device Power Loss

— This NR device power leads will be as short as I can make them.

Even if it doesn’t do much . . that’s still something when we’re straining to hear what’s happening. (TEST, that it’s worth using).

The KLF-2 is the more desirable choice for the fleet truck. Public Safety radios by Kenwood = a good analogous use to ours. Their safety is not more important than yours.

See also NR products by Newmar; spend at that level on your personal vehicle.

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[KI4ZNG]

Did your truck fall under the Freightliner battery cable recall? We had one group of trucks effected by it.

 

[slowmover]

That’s not known to me. I was in a ‘20 model most recently.

 

[KI4ZNG]

OK these were 22 models. New positive battery cable from the battery box to to the passenger side firewall.

 

[slowmover]

Larger? Or, re-routed?

 

[KI4ZNG]

Larger? Or, re-routed?

Larger

 

[slowmover]

Associated FTL rig pics

Post in thread 'New to CB and New to the Forum...'
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[slowmover]

I would enjoy hearing your perceptions of how this works. The only suppression system I've used was the Kenwood KLF-2.

Initial test at home in pickup with 12V from Batt is that I can’t tell a difference.

In big truck the acid test is to run the windshield washers. Depending how high is radio volume that can blow you out of the seat, coax disconnected.

The other test will be on-highway. With the idea that my 12’ power lead can act as antenna, we’ll see if I’m picking up on it (disconnected coax) where I know it’ll be “noisy”. (Major power lines crossing highway, etc).

Ground (Bond) is simply easier to achieve in a diesel pickup versus big truck even when it’s Common Rail versus mechanical pump, looks like. (Antenna on roof and coax run total is under 4’).

KLF-2 on my list as it’s cheap and I’m happy to use your recommendation.

So far, so good.

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[W8HDU]

I need to start searching for the article a ham wrote on the KLF-2. He had a schematic and other information to make them from scratch. Still, you can find used ones on Ebay for around $30 which isn't bad. The only thing I didn't like about the KLF-2 was the input (red wire) did not have a black wire, and they depended on chassis ground of the box for negative. I've always liked running Red/Black back to the battery, and grounding the box. I get the best results like that.

 

[slowmover]

I need to start searching for the article a ham wrote on the KLF-2. He had a schematic and other information to make them from scratch. Still, you can find used ones on Ebay for around $30 which isn't bad. The only thing I didn't like about the KLF-2 was the input (red wire) did not have a black wire, and they depended on chassis ground of the box for negative. I've always liked running Red/Black back to the battery, and grounding the box. I get the best results like that.

That article would be a nice thread addition if it surfaces.

Your wiring sounds “correct”, though these days I default to the Dodge recommendation of NEG at fender BATT connection. Case ground good point.

If I had a gasser vehicle I’m sure it would make for a better test.

Now, for the big truck, at left is the current FTL EVO 12V 8-AWG power cable. Big toroid just ahead of 12V distribution panel PowerPole connection. Connects to main fuse panel feeds. That vehicle still gets some faint alternator noise (big, over 200A; 240A?)



DSP Radio takes care of almost any truck noise admirably as it tends to comes in from over 40’ of coax.

A KLF-2 wouldn’t be hard to set up inside the radio carrier case to intercept the radio feed. Inexpensive performance insurance as it’s under 4% of the system replacement cost.

Carrier case has a component ground system run back through 12V system to ensure a common Negative. Easy to add KLF-2 to that.

Also shown is my favorite speaker recommendation of a DX-901; with 20’ audio cable. High fidelity audio.

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[W8HDU]

As I recall, the inside is a toroid transformer, and single electrolytic cap. It would be interesting if the calculations could be made to up the amperage, and maybe do a two stage filter. I'm thinking in terms of filtering for multiple radios and/or a linear. I'll have to get around to taking pictures inside my truck, a 2019 Silverado 1500. I have "intends disease".

Always intended to take the pictures, never got around to the cure.

 

[slowmover]

CAIG De-Oxit

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