SW Attic Antenna Question

[tmhanser]

I’m just starting out listening to shortwave radio, and I have a 15’ length of 14 gauge, insulated, braided wire strung in the attic of my stucco construction home.

But the roof tiles are made of 1.5” thick cement – how does this impact my reception? Should I even bother with an attic antenna?

I have the wire antenna connected securely to a coax cable that runs through the house, into the room where the radio is – I started with an inexpensive Sihuadon R108. I checked continuity all the way through the house so I’m confident I’m actually connected to the attic antenna.

Of course, day or night I can barely receive anything. With the squelch off entirely, I can barely hear anything when a scan stops on certain frequencies. It's mostly static, and I can just barely make out the audio. (These frequencies are in fact listed on www.short-wave.info.)

Should I give up on the attic antenna?

Do I need an impedance-matching transformer between the coax and the wire antenna?

When the weather improves next year, I could experiment with an outdoor length of wire, directly on the radio. It’s cold here in Reno!

Thanks.

 

[jwt873]

I've got a stucco covered house.. One problem with stucco is they use a wire grid to hold the stucco together and to keep it from falling off the walls. This metal grid around the house can reduce signals to some degree. It's best to try place an indoor antenna near a window.

I'm not sure on the concrete.. I have no experience with radio and those type of shingles.

But despite the above, you should be hearing things, even with your indoor antenna. How does your radio receive the WWV time signal on 5,. 10, and 15 MHz?

Depending on the time of day, you should be able to hear the station with a strong signal on at least one of those frequencies. I have a small portable radio with the same size telescoping antenna that your R108 has.. I can hear WWV just using the radio's antenna and no external antenna.

If you're not hearing WWV that well, try take the radio outside. If it does improve, then the house construction materials might be causing a problem.

 

[tmhanser]

Thanks, jwt873.

Concrete shingles don't seem to block my OTA (local TV) reception and I have great results with a TV antenna in the attic. Approximately 25 channels here in Reno. Maybe shortwave is a different issue.

I can't receive the WWV time signal you mentioned, I don't even know how to access those frequencies with this radio, sorry.

My next step is to string a wire outside, from a pole to the house, and try that.

Thanks again.

 

[jwt873]

It's good that you can receive TV. If that's the case, the shingles won't be an issue and your attic antenna should work fine for shortwave.

You have an AM radio.. Shortwave broadcasters use AM transmissions. If you want to hear short wave broadcasts, you need to listen to the frequencies assigned to the shortwave broadcasters.

Randomly scanning everything won't net much. In between the short wave bands you have utility stations and amateur stations. They generally use single sideband, Morse code and various digital non AM modes. On top of that, much of what happens outside the international short wave bands is non-voice. Things like fax & teletype. Your AM radio will just interpret non AM signals as noise.

As such, you'll have to break out the manual and learn to tune the radio to specific frequencies. Your first 'exercise' should be to get the display to show 5000, 10000 or 15000 (The WWV frequencies).

Once you master that, then you can try tune in shortwave stations by turning the knob on the right side of the radio. When you do this, the numbers should go op or down depending on which way you turn it.

To listen to a specific short wave band, first tune in the lower limit. For instance 15100 for the 19 meter band. Then tune up and down slowly between 15100 and 15800 listening for stations. That's how short wave listening is generally done. Scanning isn't the best because you can miss the weaker stations.

This link shows where to look for the short wave bands and shows the upper and lower frequencies where you should be listening: Short-wave frequencies and bands used for radio broadcasting

The web site in the link above also provides access to shortwave stations that are active by time and day of the week.. You can use it to find active stations and try to tune them in. Or, if you find a station on your radio and want to know where it's coming from, you can also use this link. http://www.short-wave.info/?freq=9395

 

[tmhanser]

Again, thanks for the helpful information. And for not ROASTING me.
I have a lot to learn about this radio, but I am able to tune to 5000 and then 10000 Khz to hear the WWV time signal. I can barely hear it at 10000, using the attic antenna. Very weak.

I was thrown off by your suggestion of 10 Mhz, which is actually 10000 Khz. (I'm learning.)

I'm surprised at the YouTube videos for this particular radio - I had no idea it was that popular or worthwhile.

I'll keep at it but I appreciate your help and suggestions. I'll be in touch.

Thank you.

 

[bearcatrp]

A wire outside will yield better results. I have about 50 feet outside connected to a endfed. Another option you could try is a youloop. Been reading up on this loop. After someone posted about how well it performed, decided to try it. It works great. Mine it attached to a window using suction cups with hooks. the hole is pointing N/S so it’s picking up fron the sides. Doesn’t cost that much either.

YouLoop Magnetic Antenna - AIRSPY

High Performance Magnetic Antenna for HF and VHF

airspy.com

 

[tmhanser]

A wire outside will yield better results. I have about 50 feet outside connected to a endfed. Another option you could try is a youloop. Been reading up on this loop. After someone posted about how well it performed, decided to try it. It works great. Mine it attached to a window using suction cups with hooks. the hole is pointing N/S so it’s picking up fron the sides. Doesn’t cost that much either.

YouLoop Magnetic Antenna - AIRSPY

High Performance Magnetic Antenna for HF and VHF

airspy.com

Thanks, bearcatrp. That youloop antenna looks interesting and it's inexpensive.

 

[paulears]

Is the idea not to try all sorts of things and repeat the ones that work well and reject those that don't. Try it and see, it's some wire pinned up?

In my own experience, loft antennas can work well, but are locked to the compass orientation of you house, which could be the wrong way. If the end to end direction is where nobody is, that's great, but if the people you want to hear are 90 degrees away, you are stuck.

My one, with concrete roof tiles worked fine unless the roof was wet.

 

[FKimble]

Stucco usually is applied to a wire covering the under layment. Sort of like a faraday cage. That would make it very difficult to receive anything.

Frank

 

[w2xq]

I’m just starting out listening to shortwave radio, and I have a 15’ length of 14 gauge, insulated, braided wire strung in the attic of my stucco construction home.

But the roof tiles are made of 1.5” thick cement – how does this impact my reception? Should I even bother with an attic antenna?

I have the wire antenna connected securely to a coax cable that runs through the house, into the room where the radio is – I started with an inexpensive Sihuadon R108. I checked continuity all the way through the house so I’m confident I’m actually connected to the attic antenna.

Of course, day or night I can barely receive anything. With the squelch off entirely, I can barely hear anything when a scan stops on certain frequencies. It's mostly static, and I can just barely make out the audio. (These frequencies are in fact listed on www.short-wave.info.)

Should I give up on the attic antenna?

Do I need an impedance-matching transformer between the coax and the wire antenna?

When the weather improves next year, I could experiment with an outdoor length of wire, directly on the radio. It’s cold here in Reno!

Thanks.

The short answer is you have to get an antenna outside your house. Whether be a whip antenna attached to something or a clip to (hopefully) metal gutters, you need to research/find something. Good luck.

 

[tmhanser]

The short answer is you have to get an antenna outside your house. Whether be a whip antenna attached to something or a clip to (hopefully) metal gutters, you need to research/find something. Good luck.

Revisiting this thread: I'm still planning on installing an antenna wire outside, not in the attic.

Instead of hanging a wire from the house to a pole or tree, why couldn't I hang a wire along the gutter fascia itself? Mounted about 4"-6" below the edge of the fascia? Will this work?

Or does it need to be hung free of obstructions with nothing around it?

Thanks again.

 

[W8WCA]

I have an Off center fed dipole under my Gutter attached to my Vinyl Siding With Stick on Plastics clips- it works fairly well.
(My Vertical got a bit blown over in that photo - it is back to straight up now)!

 

[tmhanser]

I have an Off center fed dipole under my Gutter attached to my Vinyl Siding With Stick on Plastics clips- it works fairly well.
(My Vertical got a bit blown over in that photo - it is back to straight up now)!

That's what I'm talking about - run the wire along the length of the gutter fascia. Hopefully, the gutter itself doesn't interfere with the reception?

Thanks again.

 

[Blueliner]

If you use the gutter edge, it is in the same orientation as it was in the attic.
See Paulears' post #8, your house may be oriented away from most signals you seek. Try a temp set up outdoors, 90 degrees to the orientation of the roof and see if reception is better. Then move the orientation 45 degrees, and recheck reception. Also, one thing I found (I am a zero tech knowledge type), is that grounding the coax lead in's shield improved the signals and reduced noise. Others will be much better versed in this than I am for sure but give it a try.

 

[krokus]

If you have access to the lawn, a loop on ground might work for you.

Loops - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[tmhanser]

If you have access to the lawn, a loop on ground might work for you.

Loops - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Thanks, krokus. A loop antenna has been suggested before but right now the hold up is simply getting a feed into the house, where the radio resides. I live in a stucco home, and when the weather improves I have no choice but to drill a long hole through the stucco and drywall to get into my "radio shack/man cave/office."

 

[krokus]

Thanks, krokus. A loop antenna has been suggested before but right now the hold up is simply getting a feed into the house, where the radio resides. I live in a stucco home, and when the weather improves I have no choice but to drill a long hole through the stucco and drywall to get into my "radio shack/man cave/office."

Do you have a disused cable TV feed into the building? Connect to that.

 

[tmhanser]

Do you have a disused cable TV feed into the building? Connect to that.

I have a coax network in the house, yes, along with a network closet or junction box. I connected to it from my office, and my first attempt was a long run of 10 gauge, single conductor, insulated wire hung inside the attic. It is connected to the coax that runs all the way to my office. Very little to POOR reception using this wire in the attic.

So, now I'm confused and have a question: does the coax cable inside the house have some detremental effect on the reception?

 

[krokus]

I have a coax network in the house, yes, along with a network closet or junction box. I connected to it from my office, and my first attempt was a long run of 10 gauge, single conductor, insulated wire hung inside the attic. It is connected to the coax that runs all the way to my office. Very little to POOR reception using this wire in the attic.

So, now I'm confused and have a question: does the coax cable inside the house have some detremental effect on the reception?

I meant use the feed point of the cable, where it comes into your house, to feed the signal to your receiver, from your outdoor antenna. If there are splitters installed, to allow multiple jacks in the house, those reduce the amount of signal at each location. (There is a small amount of insertion loss, then half of what is left is sent out of the two ports. If it has more than two, then it is a network of two way splitters, with cascading signal losses.) The losses from any splitters could be mitigated by replacing them female to female F adapter, a variant of a "barrel connector"

As for the cables affecting your current reception, yes they could. If they have any leakage, any signals or noise going through them can get into your long wire.

 

[tmhanser]

I meant use the feed point of the cable, where it comes into your house, to feed the signal to your receiver, from your outdoor antenna. If there are splitters installed, to allow multiple jacks in the house, those reduce the amount of signal at each location. (There is a small amount of insertion loss, then half of what is left is sent out of the two ports. If it has more than two, then it is a network of two way splitters, with cascading signal losses.) The losses from any splitters could be mitigated by replacing them female to female F adapter, a variant of a "barrel connector"

As for the cables affecting your current reception, yes they could. If they have any leakage, any signals or noise going through them can get into your long wire.

OK, understand, krokus. Thanks for the clarification.

I won't use the in-house coax network at all, I'm going directly outside to the antenna wire itself.

Thanks again.