Did you know this beforehand or recently learn of this? I ask because you previously have mentioned that you had not seen anything to indicate that 99-100% of system traffic would be encrypted.
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Brevard County P25 (00A.92077)
- Thread starter batdude
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From my understanding after talking with sources from various agencies on the system, it was an overwhelming decision to go ENC.
KB9DG
Newbie
Unfortunately for us listeners, I've heard they hope to be county wide encrypted on 10/1/25
Sounds about right.
Anyone else noticing how odd (besides the fact that it's encrypted to begin with) that many encrypted FD units seem to be in the clear during the day and in the evening encrypted again? Not that it really matters any longer. Since that will end shortly.Just curious if anyone else has noticed this, or if it's just me.
Oh, and remind me again why there was excitment about the switch to P25 Phase 2?
Anyone else noticing how odd (besides the fact that it's encrypted to begin with) that many encrypted FD units seem to be in the clear during the day and in the evening encrypted again? Not that it really matters any longer. Since that will end shortly.Just curious if anyone else has noticed this, or if it's just me.
Oh, and remind me again why there was excitment about the switch to P25 Phase 2?
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I wonder if they'll eventually shut down their Pulse Point access as well. Looks like it'll be the only way to know what BCFR is up to now.
Tomcu96
Member
We should identify the pulse point in the area to assist by checking it during our visit. We could also consider adding it to broadcast calls or placing it on a webpage or the call page for better visibility.
Not every call is shown on there and unless it’s a MVC, Fire, hazmat type of incident or a call at a commercial building, it only gives the street name and does not show a map.
Tomcu96
Member
Well if we could like just stay that on there in like maybe we can just like help out the gas that's going down there and like like let's just say. For instance if there's a call about the space launch maybe we can put some on there. Maybe like I'm just paying out ideas
Nothing related directly to any of the launch activity shows up on Pulse Point. They have their own FD on site and is not affiliated with Brevard County Fire Rescue.
In case anyone is interested, I reached out to the county leadership asking to reconsider this overreaching policy and got this reply:
"The bottom line up front: FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Policy requires public safety agencies using or transmitting criminal justice or protected data during an emergency response use encryption. Failure to do so results in the county being deemed out of compliance, resulting in loss of access to CJIS data if any encryption standard other than Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) is utilized. Federal policy mandates emergency public communications systems conform with these policies and is not a local decision.
We hold the ability of unlimited communication with our first response units as our highest importance. We prioritize the ability to provide effective command and control with the most current and accurate information at an incident scene as a critical core mission. This is not only to ensure an appropriate response, but to maximize the safety of our responders.
The Brevard County Radio Public Safety System supports all county and municipal agencies tasked with protecting residents and visitors. Implementing system-level encryption ensures secure communication among these agencies while complying with federal mandates. System level encryption has become the national standard for local emergency response radio systems in the transmission of sensitive data."
As far as I understand, traffic on a dispatch channel doesn't qualify as FBI CJI. I have never even heard a social security number given out over the radio on the EDACS system. That can be held on a separate encrypted talk group on the new system. I'm willing to bet that even after migrating to full encryption, officers will still opt to use their cellphone to discuss sensitive matters. Getting this reply only shows that our county leadership does not understand that they should use a can-opener to open a can of soup, and not a sledgehammer. That, or they just used ChatGPT to generate their reply to my inquiry.
"The bottom line up front: FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Policy requires public safety agencies using or transmitting criminal justice or protected data during an emergency response use encryption. Failure to do so results in the county being deemed out of compliance, resulting in loss of access to CJIS data if any encryption standard other than Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) is utilized. Federal policy mandates emergency public communications systems conform with these policies and is not a local decision.
We hold the ability of unlimited communication with our first response units as our highest importance. We prioritize the ability to provide effective command and control with the most current and accurate information at an incident scene as a critical core mission. This is not only to ensure an appropriate response, but to maximize the safety of our responders.
The Brevard County Radio Public Safety System supports all county and municipal agencies tasked with protecting residents and visitors. Implementing system-level encryption ensures secure communication among these agencies while complying with federal mandates. System level encryption has become the national standard for local emergency response radio systems in the transmission of sensitive data."
As far as I understand, traffic on a dispatch channel doesn't qualify as FBI CJI. I have never even heard a social security number given out over the radio on the EDACS system. That can be held on a separate encrypted talk group on the new system. I'm willing to bet that even after migrating to full encryption, officers will still opt to use their cellphone to discuss sensitive matters. Getting this reply only shows that our county leadership does not understand that they should use a can-opener to open a can of soup, and not a sledgehammer. That, or they just used ChatGPT to generate their reply to my inquiry.
I approved this post due to the information obtained from the county. Please keep in mind that RR does not allow never-ending discussions on this topic. I am not sure the quote provided by the county is completely accurate re: CJIS - so if someone has that memo/policy handy, it would be nice to see that posted. I do concur with the author that cell and/or MDT are used much more than radio for the really sensitive stuff. That said, I am not a supporter of Fire/EMS or LE Dispatch type comms being encrypted - 'teletype' and 'tactical' channels - sure. Again, I retort - this is nothing new in Florida. Orange Co and Duval have been LE encrypted for many, MANY years now...... and Lake Co was probably the first to completely encrypt all public safety on their system (police and fire).
It will be interesting to see what happens with this policy in the future should a large casualty event occur - like a direct hurricane hit. It's time to accept the decision of the county and move on, because the likelihood of reversion to non-secure comms is very, very low.
EDIT: I wanted to add this and forgot. The decision to encrypt/not encrypt was NOT (to my knowledge) a blanket decision by the County. This decision was left up to every single agency head who uses the system. In other words, just because XYZ agency uses the system, there was no requirement by the county to be secure. That decision was left up to the Chief / Department Head.
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ecps92
Member
and can be open to much interpretation - historically the Encryption was always about DATA (Wireless, Hardwired networks and storage)
note - LMR only appears twice in the document
Pulse Point will show all calls BCFR is assigned to, but only alert on certain ones. And the medical addressing is vague.
BTW, I am CJIS certified through my part time employer, working with police dispatch. We've discussed it within that PD several times and CJIS covers their CAD and being able to visually see info, but doesn't cover radio. Putting out info is "Incidental" according to their lawyers.
NH is just about totally in the clear, as is most of the US. Boston recently encrypted and started their own scanner feed on a 5 minute delay.
Wonder if they'd be open to putting Fire-Rescue back in the clear or doing something like Boston.
BTW, I am CJIS certified through my part time employer, working with police dispatch. We've discussed it within that PD several times and CJIS covers their CAD and being able to visually see info, but doesn't cover radio. Putting out info is "Incidental" according to their lawyers.
NH is just about totally in the clear, as is most of the US. Boston recently encrypted and started their own scanner feed on a 5 minute delay.
Wonder if they'd be open to putting Fire-Rescue back in the clear or doing something like Boston.
yarnstomper
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Technically, couldn't they issue the encryption keys out to people who apply for them? Then, the system would still be encrypted but the feed would also be available to others for public use. Seems like a loophole and I'm sure an attorney or legal professional would know better but it's just a creative thought.
sure, technically - they could. but they will not do that. why would they? 'the public' does not have a 'right' to listen to encrypted public safety communications in real time. I doubt any attorney would think this would be a winnable case - but they will certainly take your $ if you want to try.
there are several reasons why Brevard (and likely Volusia) are going to be 100% encrypted - we do not need to re-hash that topic, but both Sheriff's have made public statements on the 'scanner issue'.
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Yes, now make a strong argument for why they would feel any inclination to honor such a request. Once they have their assured privacy, do you think they want to give out their secrets to.....pick anybody specific....?
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I missed Ivey's statement on the scanner issue. Can you link it?
looked for an hour, can't find it. I think it was a news bit in the Space Coast paper.
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