Bucks county encryption

[W7FDX]

It is AES, not ADP.

And Ryan, the purpose of upgrading fire and EMS radios is so they can LISTEN TO police only. The police will be encrypted, but fire and EMS wouldn't be able to hear them unless they also had the same encryption in their radios. It is for RECEIVE only, NOT for transmit.

AES-256 is a much better option even though it costs more since it's exponentially more secure than ADP. Our county cheaped out and went with ADP for the few encrypted talkgroups on the new system. However they have OTAR enabled and my understanding is the keys will be changed either daily or weekly but that hasn't been decided. The system doesn't even have a cutover date yet so we'll see what they do.

 

[trentbob]

I understand, I guess it just seems too simple for a radio nerd like me to turn a channel knob but under stress I can see how that could be an issue.

Yep being a radio nerd myself and owning a apx 7000 I can certainly understand your sentiments but it is a mystery as to the training and abilities of the average officer to operate that radio.

This whole thing has been dragging on for a while now. I haven't stopped listening to local police dispatch of one type or another for 55 years since I was 12. I'm quite disgusted with all of it now but...

 

[joeyperillo]

Just so everyone knows, the county will be turning encryption on for the police channels again on Thursday morning based on perceived threats relating to the events in DC. It is widely believed that this should be temporary, like previous times they have done this. As of this morning the techs that would be required to upgrade fire/EMS radios have not touched any radios from my agency, so they are not prepared to make this permanent. I should also add that the flash upgrade process is very time-consuming and likely will take weeks or months to complete once the team is assembled and prepared to do so. Every single radio needs to be physically touched. My personal opinion is that likely won't be completed until summer. But in any event, we will go dark for awhile until the political climate calms down.

Thank you, Dan - the only good news is we won't be subjected to actually hearing the chaos in bucolic Bucks County, veritable hotbed of civil unrest and radical agitation......(and struck deer).....see you in the clear.

 

[joeyperillo]

There are no plans to encrypt fire and EMS... only police. The changes being made to EMS and fire radios is so that they can hear the Bucks County Police after they go encrypted so as to have situational awareness. Full-time police encryption was being held off until all fire and EMS radios designated could be altered to hear encryption. That process will take awhile, I know that you quoted the end of January but I think it's going to take much longer.

This episode starting Thursday at 8 a.m. is felt to be temporary in response to potential civil unrest. Each time they do this it takes a few weeks to come back. During the summer riots it was three weeks even though Bucks County did not have any riots. Lots of misinformation has been floating around these threads recently.

We try to only post information when it can be confirmed in the name of accuracy so as people are not misinformed.

Trentbob - the voice of reason......grazie.....

 

[trentbob]

Trentbob - the voice of reason......grazie.....

Thanks Joey, just don't ask me how I really feel LOL. Anyway, I think Dan made my point more distinctly

 

[maus92]

AES256 is part of the P25 CAB, thus is almost always an installed option for radios purchased since 2017 - particularly if the radios were purchased with DHS grant funding.

 

[GTR8000]

AES256 is part of the P25 CAB, thus is almost always an installed option for radios purchased since 2017 - particularly if the radios were purchased with DHS grant funding.

P25 CAP (Compliance Assessment Program).

Encryption capability is not a requirement for either CAP or DHS grants, however if encryption is to be included, the subscriber must have the AES-256 algorithm in order to be compliant. The radio can also include non-standard/proprietary algorithms such as ADP in addition to AES-256.

 

[maus92]

P25 CAP (Compliance Assessment Program).

Encryption capability is not a requirement for either CAP or DHS grants, however if encryption is to be included, the subscriber must have the AES-256 algorithm in order to be compliant. The radio can also include non-standard/proprietary algorithms such as ADP in addition to AES-256.

Program vs. Bulletin - in practice, essentially the same thing. But around here, it's AES256 that is the standard to be interoperable between jurisdictions.

 

[joeyperillo]

Thanks Joey, just don't ask me how I really feel LOL. Anyway, I think Dan made my point more distinctly

It is Wednesday and Zone 5 is rehearsing for tomorrow......

 

[trentbob]

Yep they will just make an announcement at 8 a.m. and that will be the end of it. Hopefully they will come back on in a few weeks or whenever they determined that the perceived threat is no longer there. When all the work is done on EMS and Fire designated radios so as they are able to hear encrypted Transmissions then the final curtain will fall.

Lots of uncertainties. Lots of work to alter Fire & EMS radios to hear encrypted police. Let's hope that the perceived threat in Bucks County passes quickly to their satisfaction and they resumed in the clear until the work is completed.

 

[sta18ff]

Sadly, there is no expected return to open comms.

 

[phillydjdan]

Have they upgraded station 18s radios yet??

 

[sta18ff]

Have they upgraded station 18s radios yet??

I haven't been active in a while so I can't confirm.

 

[phillydjdan]

I sent a round of text messages to my chief officers and noone has seen any techs at our station working on radios. And trust me, each radio takes 20 minutes or more to upgrade, so they would know. It's not a 5 minute visit. They're gonna be there all day. They would know. Please don't come on here posting unverified information you saw on Facebook or some buddy told you. They will be in the clear again before they go dark permanently. You can take that to the bank.

 

[sta18ff]

I sent a round of text messages to my chief officers and noone has seen any techs at our station working on radios. And trust me, each radio takes 20 minutes or more to upgrade, so they would know. It's not a 5 minute visit. They're gonna be there all day. They would know. Please don't come on here posting unverified information you saw on Facebook or some buddy told you. They will be in the clear again before they go dark permanently. You can take that to the bank.

Unverified info? That's actually pretty funny.

 

[bill31089]

Welp they flipped the switch today is a sad day

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

An expanding dark veil of secrecy is enveloping LE in the Philly region

 

[trentbob]

It's important to read all of the posts here each time this thread comes alive. Today's cut off was fully expected to the minute in response to potential civil unrest surrounding the inauguration. The 1.2 million dollars was voted on and allocated to alter designated Fire & EMS radios to be able to hear, not communicate with encrypted police Transmissions for situational awareness. Full-time permanent encryption will eventually come when this expensive, time-consuming, process is completed. The official reason is covid-19

They wouldn't permanently turn it off willy-nilly before this huge allotment of money was even spent. If they wanted to endanger First Responders which was their initial plan they would have shut the radio off months ago. 1.2 million dollars is a lot of scratch to avoid the inconvenience of transparency.

Our County leaders have stood up and avoided encryption for years. They apparently succumbed to the nonsense that was peddled to them and voted to spend the money to join the leagues of many other counties in the United States who will now be labeled and shamed as secret squirrels who's lack of transparency indicates they have something to hide.

Honestly, they never had a problem with a handful of serious hobbyist, First Responders and media types who spent the money and programmed sophisticated radios to listen with good intentions. This whole encryption push started when police transmissions could be easily picked up by anybody for free in Bucks County.

The same as the last two times they did this it is expected that communication will be in the clear again until the work can be completed to ensure the safety of our First Responders. The last time was several weeks and the time before that in the summer because of the widespread rioting of which Bucks County had none of it was off for 3 weeks. Let's see what happens this time.

 

[joeyperillo]

It's important to read all of the posts here each time this thread comes alive. Today's cut off was fully expected to the minute in response to potential civil unrest surrounding the inauguration. The 1.2 million dollars was voted on and allocated to alter designated Fire & EMS radios to be able to hear, not communicate with encrypted police Transmissions for situational awareness. Full-time permanent encryption will eventually come when this expensive, time-consuming, process is completed. The official reason is covid-19

They wouldn't permanently turn it off willy-nilly before this huge allotment of money was even spent. If they wanted to endanger First Responders which was their initial plan they would have shut the radio off months ago. 1.2 million dollars is a lot of scratch to avoid the inconvenience of transparency.

Our County leaders have stood up and avoided encryption for years. They apparently succumbed to the nonsense that was peddled to them and voted to spend the money to join the leagues of many other counties in the United States who will now be labeled and shamed as secret squirrels who's lack of transparency indicates they have something to hide.

Honestly, they never had a problem with a handful of serious hobbyist, First Responders and media types who spent the money and programmed sophisticated radios to listen with good intentions. This whole encryption push started when police transmissions could be easily picked up by anybody for free in Bucks County.

The same as the last two times they did this it is expected that communication will be in the clear again until the work can be completed to ensure the safety of our First Responders. The last time was several weeks and the time before that in the summer because of the widespread rioting of which Bucks County had none of it was off for 3 weeks. Let's see what happens this time.

Thank you, Bob. Once again a voice of reason and valuable information. Thank you.

 

[sta18ff]

The switch to police encryption is not a temporary switch this time. The police radios will be reprogrammed with the police channels as full-time encryption at which point you will not even be able to turn it off via the switch on the radios. No plans for FD/EMS to be encrypted....yet.