Camden County Project 25 TRS

[fireradio44]

All towers sites will be simulcast.

 

[fireradio44]

I am guessing these radios are costly since I can't seem to find a price on either the portable or mobile radio. Any ideas what they will run?

Dont have an exact amount, but it's in the area of $3500 per radio.

 

[N2ICV]

I'm told the XTS5000 and XTS2500's can do Project 25 Phase II TDMA .

 

[W2GLD]

I'm told the XTS5000 and XTS2500's can do Project 25 Phase II TDMA .

That's is incorrect, XTS1500/2500/5000 radios are Phase I ONLY, but do cover 700/800 bands...

 

[W2SJW]

Jerry is correct. The APX family is the only Moto radio offering that will do X2/Phase-II right now.

We got Phase-II with a simple firmware upgrade (and that was how it was planned all along, no need for a 'feature flash').

 

[N2ICV]

Obviously, I was told wrong.

 

[AngerManagement]

Dont have an exact amount, but it's in the area of $3500 per radio.

Thanks,

Well that's one way to eliminate private radio owners. I don't want to bombard you with a bunch of questions, but who is going to be responsible for the purchase of mobile and portable radios for each emergency unit? Will dispatch be simulcasted on the old frequency? I don't see many departments having the budgets to afford the cost of new pagers, mobile radios, and portables for every seat in the unit.

 

[Rescue1]

guess I'll have to wait a few years for a scanner to come out to listen in... Can't even afford a Model 1. Not that I would be able to get on the system key if I got my hands on one. It wouldn't really be worth it anyway unless all townships (ie: Pennsauken, Cherry Hill and Camden) join in.

From my understanding, and I certainly could be wrong, even if you did have a software based system key and an ID you still would be SOL because the system is going to compare the ESN of the radio to the ID. So if these don't match then you would be listening in...

I am not trying to start a radio affiliation fighting thread, just stating fact. I do wonder if the APX can be setup like the 3600 systems on the older ASTRO lines to not affiliate and act as an ASTRO scanner. Doubtful though.... :-/

 

[W2SJW]

No one yet makes a system that validates the ESN prior to letting a radio with a valid UID affiliate (that's planned for the future, but not even close to implementation now, so that's a FUD rumor as far as I'm concerned).

The XTS & APX cannot be set to not affiliate automatically like the older radios could. If you know what you are doing, you can easily make an XTS or an APX follow either a Type-II or P25 system without affiliating (I do it regularly, but I'm obviously not going to go into specifics here, ever).

 

[W2GLD]

Thanks,

Well that's one way to eliminate private radio owners. I don't want to bombard you with a bunch of questions, but who is going to be responsible for the purchase of mobile and portable radios for each emergency unit? Will dispatch be simulcasted on the old frequency? I don't see many departments having the budgets to afford the cost of new pagers, mobile radios, and portables for every seat in the unit.

Fire paging will remain on F-1; other traffic will be simulcast for short while until all users are on the system!

 

[W2GLD]

No one yet makes a system that validates the ESN prior to letting a radio with a valid UID affiliate (that's planned for the future, but not even close to implementation now, so that's a FUD rumor as far as I'm concerned).

The XTS & APX cannot be set to not affiliate automatically like the older radios could. If you know what you are doing, you can easily make an XTS or an APX follow either a Type-II or P25 system without affiliating (I do it regularly, but I'm obviously not going to go into specifics here, ever).

True Project-25 units MUST affiliate in order to receive traffic from the system; this is 100% necessary in ALL Phase-II systems... In addition, ESN's can and will be tracked on these systems. GenWatch3+ has copious amounts of system monitoring abilities.

Finally, please drop the topic of adding a radio to the system; this shoud not be discussed in this forum nor is this even legal and if caught hacking into a radio system; you can expect STIFF PENALTIES IN NJ as well as end up with some federal issues under the Homeland security act!

Scanner will eventually become available and their receivers are getting better all the time. Right now today, the only scanner to buy is the GRE PSR-800 because is has a built in TDMA Project-25 decoder. It is unclear how upgradable this unit is, but knowing GRE's product line, and the fact a mobile version of the same radio is coming; it's likely going to receive numerous beneficial updates fr TDMA systems.

 

[fireradio44]

Thanks,

Well that's one way to eliminate private radio owners. I don't want to bombard you with a bunch of questions, but who is going to be responsible for the purchase of mobile and portable radios for each emergency unit? Will dispatch be simulcasted on the old frequency? I don't see many departments having the budgets to afford the cost of new pagers, mobile radios, and portables for every seat in the unit.

The County is supplying the mobiles and portables. After the initial outlay, the departments are responsible for replacements or extra units. F1 will still be used to tone the companies but in a narrow band mode. This has been tested and found to have no problems operating with later Minitor 3, 4 and 5 pagers.

If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a private message....

 

[SnappleDrinker]

antiquated equipment

Forgive me if I sound stupid, but does this mean that radios currently in operation such as an MT1000, ht1550, sabers and the like will no longer be able to be used in the narrowbanding? What about the minitors and key notes? will they no longer be able to be utilized then also? just trying to get a heads up on equipment needed.

 

[W2GLD]

Forgive me if I sound stupid, but does this mean that radios currently in operation such as an MT1000, ht1550, sabers and the like will no longer be able to be used in the narrowbanding? What about the minitors and key notes? will they no longer be able to be utilized then also? just trying to get a heads up on equipment needed.

With the additional of this system, all radios will eventually be replaced with 700MHz. radios purchased initially by the county and additional units purchased by the individual departments as needed. Users will no longer be able to purchase their own equipment and place it on the system unless authorized by the county radio personnel as they require access rights to the county networked system.

Radios such as the MT1000, Saber, and several others are NOT even narrowband capable; meaning even if the county was staying VHF, those radios are not able to be programmed for the required narrowband spacing.

Moving forward, the county is narrowbanding the VHF Fire dispatch channel (154.430); once this occurs, they will only support Motorola Minitor III, IV, and V pagers; these are the only ones certified as narrowband compliant.

 

[SnappleDrinker]

With the additional of this system, all radios will eventually be replaced with 700MHz. radios purchased initially by the county and additional units purchased by the individual departments as needed. Users will no longer be able to purchase their own equipment and place it on the system unless authorized by the county radio personnel as they require access rights to the county networked system.

Radios such as the MT1000, Saber, and several others are NOT even narrowband capable; meaning even if the county was staying VHF, those radios are not able to be programmed for the required narrowband spacing.

Moving forward, the county is narrowbanding the VHF Fire dispatch channel (154.430); once this occurs, they will only support Motorola Minitor III, IV, and V pagers; these are the only ones certified as narrowband compliant.

I was thinking more along the lines of the VHF township firegrounds that I am thinking will all have to change. A lot of them are using sabers and mt1000's

 

[W2GLD]

I was thinking more along the lines of the VHF township firegrounds that I am thinking will all have to change. A lot of them are using sabers and mt1000's

Everyone using VHF and UHF are going to be forced to narrowband, regardless of what equipment they are currently using. If they are still using MT1000 and Saber radios, they'll all have to be replaced in order to operate legally with their new licenses; unless they have received a special grant license from the FCC; which in New Jersey, with all of the adjacent channels being used in surrounding areas, it would be VERY unlikely that they would have such special grant.

Everyone nationwide is going through this and it should come as no surprise to these agencies as they have all known for at least the past three years that this narrowbanding deadline was coming. Motorola was VERY proactive in advising agencies of what equipment was and was not supported... In the case of police, fire, and EMS agencies in Camden County, it really doesn't matter since they are ALL going on the 700MHz. trunked radio system and new radios will be provided by the county.

 

[fireradio44]

Jerry is correct.

The new County system will have 8 simplex fireground channels. The individual township VHF frequencies will not be part of the system.

 

[elias1988]

As of April 5th Camden County has submitted to the FCC for mircowave links:

Application Search - Search Results

 

[pirate6]

A little birdie told me that Cherry Hill FD/EMS will not be moving to the county system. They will move to the township system since it will save money by not having to buy new radio equipment. Every FD vehicle and ambulance already have EDACS radios and tactic/fire ground ops will say on the department VHF frequencies. Seems that they are using the KISS method, look at some big city's systems (NYC,LA ect)they have very simple systems and they work. I think the more sophisticated a system is and the more hands that are evolved in the planning the better the chance of failure. Plus its cheaper to maintain. Look at Philadelphia and Burlington county's systems they always have problems. I don't know that's my two cents.

 

[W2GLD]

A little birdie told me that Cherry Hill FD/EMS will not be moving to the county system. They will move to the township system since it will save money by not having to buy new radio equipment. Every FD vehicle and ambulance already have EDACS radios and tactic/fire ground ops will say on the department VHF frequencies. Seems that they are using the KISS method, look at some big city's systems (NYC,LA ect)they have very simple systems and they work. I think the more sophisticated a system is and the more hands that are evolved in the planning the better the chance of failure. Plus its cheaper to maintain. Look at Philadelphia and Burlington county's systems they always have problems. I don't know that's my two cents.

The radios installed in almost all of Cherry Hills vehicles are easily upgradeable to work with the Project-25, Phase I operation; thus why this system will be able to work with both formats, at least for a little while. Yes, it would save Cherry Hill a bundle of money to not have to purchase radios; however, the county will be supplying the initial batch of radios to all agencies, after-which, agencies will have to purchase their own equipment. Cherry Hill may chose to still maintain their own system; but under Homeland Security Inter-Operatbility grants; Cherry Hill must maintain communications with surrounding agencies; thus the implementation of many of these larger systems, such as the State of NJ 700 system that is currently being installed across the state. This is another reason why Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County, Ocean County, and yes, even Burlington County will all eventually be moving to 700MHz.

There are allot of rumors flying around out there, especially in Camden County... I'd say sit back and see what happens; and keep an eye on the database as changes are coming soon to a municipality near YOU...