Charlotte area - new P25 system?

[CLTscanner]

Hey Everybody, I've been trying to identify a new system that I noticed a while back, never really had much traffic to identify it with. Now I'm afraid it's gone.

The system has been running the last 4 years, and then yesterday I noticed that scanner is no longer decoding the control channel. There is data traffic on the frequency I can hear it in analog mode, but nothing will decode.
Is it a data system now? Is it possible to encrypt a control channel??? Is that even a thing?
I live in East Charlotte and the signal is coming in strong. The frequency is 857.2875


Below is a quick timeline that I have put together.

> September 2019 - I noticed the system came up on the air with some occasional keyups.
Traffic was always on tg:64001, tg:64002, or tg:64006
They never made mention of many details and couldn't figure out who it is.

> March 2020 - All traffic on the system ceased. (Start of the pandemic) So I figured the users went home.

> October 2021 - I was able to see some more keyups on 64006. Some talk of moving a bunch of trailers and a generator.

> July 2023, the control channel went away for about a week, but came back online.

> August 2023 - I can no longer decode the control channel, but there is traffic on the frequency.

Disclaimer, I haven't monitored this system 100% of the time, but if I was home it would be in my scan list. I'm sure I'm missed many conversations over time. Also, I'm not sure when exactly it came online, I noticed it in September 2019.

Any help to identify or any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[RaleighGuy]

Hey Everybody, I've been trying to identify a new system that I noticed a while back, never really had much traffic to identify it with. Now I'm afraid it's gone.

The system has been running the last 4 years, and then yesterday I noticed that scanner is no longer decoding the control channel. There is data traffic on the frequency I can hear it in analog mode, but nothing will decode.
Is it a data system now? Is it possible to encrypt a control channel??? Is that even a thing?
I live in East Charlotte and the signal is coming in strong. The frequency is 857.2875

Did you ever copy the WACN and System ID? That is the best way to ID a system. Did you search the FCC database for frequency license in that area?

It could be Duke Energy, they have several licenses for that frequency. It could be the old Open Sky system or the new P25 Phase 2 system it is just beginning to expand and may have been active for testing. The control channel on this system is the new TDMA Phase 2 control channel which is found on some Harris systems and current scanners can not decode properly.

 

[CLTscanner]

I found my notes. I don't think this is right, but the WACN was coming across as: 91F14.
System ID: 14

I'm always accustomed for the WACN to be BEE00, so I'm not sure that's right.

I was using a Uniden BCD325P2 scanner to monitor, but now I can't get any control channel info.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

If the WACN is always in this format 91F14 its a Harris System. Motorola most of the time are always BEE00

 

[BigLebowski]

91F14 is Duke Energy. TDMA Control Channel, which a scanner will not decode.

 

[riccom]

that means they are moving from there open sky format

 

[RaleighGuy]

that means they are moving from there open sky format

It has been talked about in the forums for two years now, yes they are moving and yes that is Duke's WACN.

Duke Energy P25 System

Noticed Duke energy carrying 900mhz APX 4000s yesterday evening. Has anyone heard of updates coming or a possible system upgrade? Seems silly running APX portables on an analog only Smartzone system.

forums.radioreference.com

 

[west-pac]

It's likely this Duke site/license.

FCC Callsign WNPW329 (Duke Energy Business Services, LLC)

FCC Callsign WNPW329 (Duke Energy Business Services, LLC)

www.radioreference.com

 

[CLTscanner]

91F14 is Duke Energy. TDMA Control Channel, which a scanner will not decode.

I'm confused by this comment. I have a Phase2 capable scanner that supports TDMA. I was receiving traffic until last week.
What do you mean scanners can't decode TDMA systems???

 

[BigLebowski]

I'm confused by this comment. I have a Phase2 capable scanner that supports TDMA. I was receiving traffic until last week.
What do you mean scanners can't decode TDMA systems???

That is not what I said. I said it's a TDMA Control Channel, which scanners cannot decode.

 

[RaleighGuy]

What do you mean scanners can't decode TDMA systems???

@BigLebowski was talking about control channels, as he said above, here is talk about this subject from April.

TDMA CONTROL CHANNEL

Any info on TDMA CONTROL CHANNEL firmware update? Or do we wait another 5 years!

forums.radioreference.com

 

[CLTscanner]

@BigLebowski @RaleighGuy
Okay, I'm following you guys now. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

My scanner can support TDMA voice channels, not TDMA control channels. Well shucks.
That sucks. I 'future' purchased a TDMA scanner for the Charlotte UASI system for when they go phase2, now there is even newer technology.

 

[CLTscanner]

So, is it reasonable to think that they have now converted this site to "TDMA Control Channel" hence the reason why I can no longer decode anything...?

 

[RaleighGuy]

So, is it reasonable to think that they have now converted this site to "TDMA Control Channel" hence the reason why I can no longer decode anything...?

Most likely, Duke is making this change around the country using the 91F14 WACN, see link in post #7 above. DSD+ FL tracks it I believe, but scanners will need a FW update (after manufacturers write one) before they will be able to decode it.

 

[CLTscanner]

Since TDMA Control Channel is the new thing, what can I use to monitor these systems?

I'm assuming I need to use a computer, with SDR receiver and software... (I'm not a very computer savvy person, so what would be the best thing for me?)
Can someone point me to options? Is there an existing thread on this subject?

 

[RaleighGuy]

Since TDMA Control Channel is the new thing, what can I use to monitor these systems?

I'm assuming I need to use a computer, with SDR receiver and software... (I'm not a very computer savvy person, so what would be the best thing for me?)
Can someone point me to options? Is there an existing thread on this subject?

I have not seen a thread on it but this lists the software known to decode it.

Duke Energy P25 is coming alive in NC

Duke Energy has begun rolling out the new nationwide P25 Phase 2 Harris system here in NC, two sites have been found and identified in the Raleigh/Garner area, and neighbors have been listed. This system will be a Harris P25 system with TDMA Control Channels which can not be decoded properly on...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[bravo14]

Back in 2020 or 2021 when I lived NWFL area some counties that way were setting up the new system. I decide to make a file (using a sds100) for each county that I was going through and didn't see nothing happening. Appear the Control Channel sends out a ENC TDMA. One day DSDPlus had a update and when I drove the counties I stop somewhere and run dsdplus and some sites use 3 to 5 if no more freqs for each site.

 

[reconrider8]

Since TDMA Control Channel is the new thing, what can I use to monitor these systems?

I'm assuming I need to use a computer, with SDR receiver and software... (I'm not a very computer savvy person, so what would be the best thing for me?)
Can someone point me to options? Is there an existing thread on this subject?

if you can buy the sdr and have a computer thats good enough to run dsd+fl someone including myself can help you ser it up to monitor the system.. side note youll have to buy dpd+fl also but its not expensive total between the sdr and dsd

https://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Defined/dp/B0BMKB3L47/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2KFWYY0MGW2CY&keywords=rtl+sdr&qid=1693472078&s=electronics&sprefix=rtl%2Celectronics%2C151&sr=1-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

DSDPlus Fast Lane Program – DSDPlus

 

[RaleighGuy]

From personal experience, I highly recommend the Nooelec brand, that is what I run for my calls platform feed and use for other things. I think I have 7 or 8 of them now. They work great with all SDR software including DSD+ FL, SDR#, and Unitrunker V2. And, the V5 dongle adds increased frequency spread and better performance.

Amazon.com

 

[sonm10]

If you read the Duke Energy thread linked in post 7, the new system will be mostly encrypted. Monitoring may be a moot point.