Clayton County 700Mhz System

[KD4YGG]

Currently don't have access to run PRO96COM or Unitrunker, but using PSR-500 TUNE the following shows up for Clayton County's new 700 Mhz system:

770.53125 - control channel

SYS ID=06C
R006
S001
NAC=061
WACN=BEE00

Appears this is separate system from the 800Mhz system currently listed in the database

 

[K4SVT]

Definitely 6.25...

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

 

[MTS2000des]

Clayton county live today 10/29

As of today, Clayton county migrated to their 700MHz system. Hearing nothing but silence on their old VHF/UHF conventionals.

All TG's are TDMA and fully encrypted with AES-256 except the interop TG's which are slaved FDMA only.

Not sure about the cities (Morrow, Lovejoy, Riverdale, etc) but in the one portable I saw there were talkgroups with all those agencies names on them, so if they aren't live today it's only a matter of time.

 

[K4SVT]

The whole metro atlanta or most digital systems in the atlanta area will be TDMA soon..time to get a TDMA scanner or radio..

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

 

[KD4YGG]

Some of the talkgroups are not encrypted on dispatch side but it's hit-and-miss.
A couple of jail talkgroups are non-encrypted (appears to be transport related).

 

[N8IAA]

The whole metro atlanta or most digital systems in the atlanta area will be TDMA soon..time to get a TDMA scanner or radio..

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

I'm sure you have a certified crystal ball that gives you this info.
Gwinnett, DeKalb, and Atlanta are Phase I, and most likely for the next few years will remain so.
Cobb can't wait to waste more money to get a new Phase II system.
I'm going to guess that even though Forsyth county is sharing the Cobb system, won't be buying new gear to go TDMA.
The only new system is going to be FulCo that will be heard in the metro area..
Now, wouldn't it have been intelligent to merge on the useless GA statewide system
A little over 15 years down here in GA, and they are still in the dark ages.
Good Golly Miss Molly
Larry

 

[MTS2000des]

Larry your observations are pretty on point.

Cobb did uplift their core last week, but new subscriber units are who knows when, probably rolled out before our new taxpayer funded, corporate welfare race to waste stadium no doubt.

One of the nice things about Astro 25 7.xx is DDM, so you can have both phase 1 and phase 2 TG's. Forsyth is just plugged into the Cobb zone controller as a remote site, and since they have their own frequencies for their zone, they could theoretically stay FDMA as long as they (and Motorola) want to.

Clayton's system is pure phase 2 except a handful on FDMA interop TGs.
Fulton county's new system (05B2) will be phase 2 with DDM, most of the county TGs will be phase 1, as they are using existing subscriber radios (XTS/XTL) for the time being. I think a few county TGs like SWAT maybe TDMA capable. In the future, they will replace their XTS/XTLs with phase 2 capable gear, and then gracefully migrate their phase 1 talkgroups to TDMA when the time comes, and thus double the capacity of their 12 channel system.

The North county cities (Sandy Springs, Roswell, Alpharetta, Milton) will most likely be on the new Fulton system and those will be phase 2 for the time being, when the system goes live in January, as the North county's little separate private Idaho island won't be ready yet. As you can see, they are having issues getting their sites built out in time. Johns Creek is the only North county city who is NOT migrating to the NFRRS. They are getting alot of heat for this. But good for them for not wasting money.

The NFRRS will be pure phase 2. No FDMA or DDM, at least that is what I was told.

 

[MTS2000des]

Some of the talkgroups are not encrypted on dispatch side but it's hit-and-miss.
A couple of jail talkgroups are non-encrypted (appears to be transport related).

This will change in time. My source says there are some bugs to work out, consoles are setup for clear/secure select, but once they encryption key issues are worked out in all the subscriber radios, everything will be encrypted. They bought a KMF server and all for OTAR. At least they did it right and used industry standard AES-256 and not ADP.

They do NOT want anyone listening or penetrating this system.

 

[K4SVT]

Well that really sucks..

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

 

[CapStar362]

considering the amount of issues in clayton co, and the number of people who carry multiple phones and some of them with scanners... yeah


i believe it

 

[KD4YGG]

Anyone know the unencrypted mutual aid talk groups?

 

[MTS2000des]

Why Clayton county uses encryption:

Clayton County Ga.First Amendment Audit - YouTube

 

[CapStar362]

check my reply there MTS..... i think i know that "Scott" guy of JPD, he always ( if it was him ) had that evil look on his face.

 

[dstew67]

Why Clayton county uses encryption:

Clayton County Ga.First Amendment Audit - YouTube

Here's what I don't understand. The Sunshine Law of Georgia was passed with the express intention of allowing citizens to observe the workings of their government. In fact, the Attorney General of Georgia says it is critical on page 2 of his Citizen's Guide to Open Government:

"Georgia’s “sunshine laws” are critical to our citizens’ ability to observe the workings of their government."

Given the fact that the highest law enforcer of the state interprets the law this way, does Clayton County think they are exempt? Most people agree that communications during a critical incident should be secure, but I doubt most people would agree that day-to-day operations should be out of reach of the citizens of Clayton County.

Chief Justice Weltner stated in the case of Davis v. City of Macon: “Public men and women are amenable ‘at all times’ to the people, they must conduct the public’s business out in the open.”The Georgia Constitution states that public officials are “servants of the people.”

I just don't think that whomever decided to make ALL law enforcement communications encrypted, had this principle in mind when they decided so.

Given the tense climate which exists between police officials and a large segment of the population, I don't think that withdrawing and putting up yet another barrier is the answer. I don't think it fosters good will or trust. These Sunshine laws which were passed 3.5 decades ago in states across the country, are so named because they are meant to shine light on government. When you have an agency which tries to act in secret, you have an agency which is ripe for corruption.

 

[rapidcharger]

Here's what I don't understand. The Sunshine Law of Georgia was passed with the express intention of allowing citizens to observe the workings of their government. In fact, the Attorney General of Georgia says it is critical on page 2 of his Citizen's Guide to Open Government:

"Georgia’s “sunshine laws” are critical to our citizens’ ability to observe the workings of their government."

Given the fact that the highest law enforcer of the state interprets the law this way, does Clayton County think they are exempt? Most people agree that communications during a critical incident should be secure, but I doubt most people would agree that day-to-day operations should be out of reach of the citizens of Clayton County.

Chief Justice Weltner stated in the case of Davis v. City of Macon: “Public men and women are amenable ‘at all times’ to the people, they must conduct the public’s business out in the open.”The Georgia Constitution states that public officials are “servants of the people.”

I just don't think that whomever decided to make ALL law enforcement communications encrypted, had this principle in mind when they decided so.

Given the tense climate which exists between police officials and a large segment of the population, I don't think that withdrawing and putting up yet another barrier is the answer. I don't think it fosters good will or trust. These Sunshine laws which were passed 3.5 decades ago in states across the country, are so named because they are meant to shine light on government. When you have an agency which tries to act in secret, you have an agency which is ripe for corruption.

Speaking of sunshining, apparently we can make a public records request for ALL of the audio like someone tried doing in Washington state for a police department's recent body cams and they couldn't cope. They asked for help from the person who requested it. I wonder what they would do. Hmmm.

 

[dstew67]

It's true. I don't see an exemption for radio transmissions. You could request all of the audio, and they would have to comply. Here's the catch. They could charge you a fee to produce the audio. The cost would be equal to the hourly rate of the lowest paid employee used to satisfy the request. It adds up quickly, though. Also, nobody is overseeing how they make the production. They may have someone sitting there playing and recording in real time, in which case they would theoretically never be finished.

Also, it's a misdemeanor if they don't comply in a timely manner, and only if you spend the money to take them to court:

"Anyone who the court finds "knowingly and willfully" failed or refused to timely provide access to records not subject to exemption is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not in excess of $1,000.00."

Law and real application aren't always the same.

 

[rapidcharger]

Ok. Who wants to go first?

The last time I made an public records request and there was a fee, they didn't charge me until after they produced the items being requested.

 

[dstew67]

I'm a journalist, so I request public records (never from Clayton County...(yet), and I always ask for an estimate of the hourly fee. If you're dealing with a county clerk, many times time will give you a ballpark amount. You can also make your request conditional, like saying that you are requesting the documents, as long as the research fees don't exceed $100. Here's the section on fees:

Public agencies may charge a reasonable fee for copies of public documents but usually may not charge more than 10¢ per page.21 Agencies may also charge those requesting documents for search, retrieval, redaction and other administrative costs. Hourly charges for administrative tasks may not exceed the salary of the lowest paid, full-time employee who, in the discretion of the custodian of the records, has the necessary skill and training to perform the request. No charge may be made for the first quarter hour of administrative time. And, agencies must provide copies of the requested documents in “the most economical means reasonably calculated to identify and produce responsive, nonexcluded documents.” The Georgia Supreme Court has held that no fee may be charged when a person seeks only to inspect records that are routinely subject to public inspection, such
as deeds, city ordinances and zoning maps.22 An agency also may not charge for time its attorneys spend advising whether records should be disclosed.

[EDIT] Many times, county clerks have attended a yearly session on the Sunshine Law in their state offered by the AG, whereas other agencies have not. I'm not sure if GA's AG has one, but in many states they are free to attend and open to the public. I've had to RSVP in most cases, just so they have an idea of how many people want to attend. I've also been given a free copy of the AG's publication, but have had to pay for any extra copies I wanted.[/EDIT]

 

[rapidcharger]

OK I just requested an estimate for recordings of all encrypted TGs in a different county. We'll see what they come up with. I only requested the cost for a particular date.... just one entire day.

This should be interesting.

 

[MTS2000des]

Here's the thing about the Georgia ORR, the 2012 revision doesn't specifically stipulate that audio and video recordings be included, thus, it is clearly open to interpretation by the AG and/or a judge, which would come about when someone requests (and is denied) such recordings.

Nothing in the Georgia ORR specifies that electronic communications (which would include public safety radio traffic) be "in the clear". How on articulates the request will impact largely the response.

Agencies encrypt for a reason. They do NOT want outside parties intercepting their communications.

In North Little Rock, ARK, citizens sued to get access to encrypted radio traffic.

http://forums.radioreference.com/ar...ark-citizens-suing-over-radio-encryption.html

Apparently the city complied with a request to supply an official feed on Broadcastify of their dispatch traffic, on a 30 minute delayed basis.

So...who wants to be the one to spend their thousands of personal dollars and countless hours of time filing motions in Clayton county or Gwinnett county to attempt accomplish the same objective?

Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?