Clayton County 700Mhz System

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dstew67

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ill have to get that. i think its Jacksonville County Florida.

conflicting info though.....

JCSO points to Jacksonville Florida SO, but is listed as Duval County Officially. never heard of a SO called by City instead of official County they are in.

if they do it, that is purely a first for me.





he has done Clayton, Dobbins ( Cobb County ), Marietta, Gwinnett, and Atlanta PD.

JCSO makes sense, although I agree with you on a city having a sheriff, but what do I know? Texas has constables and rangers, in addition to troopers, sheriffs and chiefs, and I'm probably missing one or two agency types! I sort of understand rangers, what would normally be the investigative arm in most state DPS's. Constables are the real head-scratchers to me. I know they serve warrants, but can also get paid from tax money for neighborhood watches, and they aren't restricted by counties? Not completely sure if I have all that right, hence the head scratching.

I did watch a few of the videos, but didn't see Atlanta. I'll look for it another night. Eyes are fading fast, but thanks for the reply
 

rapidcharger

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not always, Jeff gets a good number of them who do "HONOR" what he does. hell even a good number of them. one particular)))

If by "good number" you mean "very few" then I would agree.

(((JCSO likes him actually. )))
If you mean JSO, I'm not sure I believe that they "like him" just that he has been a continual thorn in their side for years and they are aware of him.



ill have to get that. i think its Jacksonville County Florida.

conflicting info though.....

JCSO points to Jacksonville Florida SO, but is listed as Duval County Officially. never heard of a SO called by City instead of official County they are in.

.

Jacksonville is a city, not a county. The county is Duval however it's a consolidated government, one of the few in that state, if not the only one. It's the only one I've ever seen. So instead of a separate police and sheriff for the city and county, it's just JSO, or Jacksonville Sheriff Dept and that's it. They were one of the first in the country to use encryption. What I can tell you from having lived there is that it's like living in a police state. You can't go anywhere without seeing a cop. There's way too many cops there. Way, way, way too many.

Jeff Gray lives in St. Johns county, unincorporated St. Augustine I would assume.
 

dstew67

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{CLIPPED}
Jacksonville is a city, not a county. The county is Duval however it's a consolidated government, one of the few in that state, if not the only one. It's the only one I've ever seen. So instead of a separate police and sheriff for the city and county, it's just JSO, or Jacksonville Sheriff Dept and that's it. They were one of the first in the country to use encryption. What I can tell you from having lived there is that it's like living in a police state. You can't go anywhere without seeing a cop. There's way too many cops there. Way, way, way too many.

Jeff Gray lives in St. Johns county, unincorporated St. Augustine I would assume.

I've seen these consolidated governments before. St Louis County, MO is an example, except in this case, it's a hybrid, where the county provides certain services to the whole county, and other services to only those municipalities which want to participate, including police. Basically, it's a smorgasbord of services, and each city can pick want they want, to a degree. I think water is everyone.

But to get this thread back on topic, has anyone heard any feedback on how different agencies in Clayton County like the new system? Are there bugs still being worked out? And has there been any push-back at all from anyone in the county, newspaper, county commissioner, powerful business persons, who have spoken out over the all-encryption system? I can't for the life of me believe that every agency in the county needs encrypted radios.
 

MTS2000des

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But to get this thread back on topic, has anyone heard any feedback on how different agencies in Clayton County like the new system? Are there bugs still being worked out? And has there been any push-back at all from anyone in the county, newspaper, county commissioner, powerful business persons, who have spoken out over the all-encryption system? I can't for the life of me believe that every agency in the county needs encrypted radios.

The city of Morrow is not on the new system, I have heard rumors about cost sharing disagreements but don't know all the details.

As far as the users on the new system, I know someone who was involved with coverage testing and it is incredible, covers all the way up to Cobb county (seen this myself with this person's portable), solid portable coverage throughout the airport (even in the tunnels). Miles above their old, outdated VHF analog system.

To my knowledge, NO ONE outside the radio hobbyist community has spoken up about the system being 100 percent AES-256 encrypted. NO ONE. Not one media outlet, not one mutual aid user, not one person...NO ONE.

and I don't expect that to change either. :(
 

dstew67

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{CLIPPED}

and I don't expect that to change either. :(

Maybe that will change in time, as users decide whether the system works for them, if the tax dollars are worth signing user agreements for radios, etc. But maybe you're right. I haven't lived here long enough to get a pulse on the community. I'd like to see at least some coverage on it, so the citizens of the county are aware of the pros and cons, so they can make up their own minds.
 

MTS2000des

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Maybe that will change in time, as users decide whether the system works for them,

Doubtful. Once procurements like this have been finalized, there is no turning back. The time to question the process was months, if not years, ago when the RFPs were being drafted, and public input was solicited.

I'd like to see at least some coverage on it, so the citizens of the county are aware of the pros and cons, so they can make up their own minds.

I would too, but at this point, it's a done deal. Once a project is finalized and the system is working well (which all indications are it is), there is going to be nothing externally that will change it.

EVEN IF if it was the "top story on xxxx news at 6", nothing would change. The powers that be would spew their standard cookie cutter canned responses about "homeland security" , "officer safety" and "Federal mandates" etc etc as always.

The time to make a case has long passed. No one spoke up, so what's done is done.

the only thing that would cause anyone in command to re-think their policy would be an incident or worse yet an LODD where encryption was to factor that hindered a response.

and how would the public know because we are locked out?
 

K4SVT

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Still figuring out why cobb county still had to update their radio system...

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K4SVT

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Fultons radio was older than cobbs smartnet system...JMHO

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K4SVT

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Also been seeing a great deal of new IDs 3010200 in order...water radios..just been seeing them come up on the xts and unitrunker...new radios perhaps..

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rapidcharger

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I've seen these consolidated governments before.
I admit, it's a little strange sounding... Jacksonville Sheriff's Office... It sounds so country.

, covers all the way up to Cobb county (seen this myself with this person's portable), solid portable coverage throughout the airport (even in the tunnels). Miles above their old, outdated VHF analog system.


Outdated VHF analog? There's nothing outdated about it. The VHF analog system went a lot further than Cobb County. Not that it needs to. Spending millions of dollars to have a TRS on 700MHz well outside of where you will use it is just a waste of money. The only reason they wanted to "fast track" the migration was because barrow was poorly coordinated and their new TRS control channel was on Clayton's dispatch frequency. Instead of fix that, they wasted ten's of millions of dollars in another broke county with really bad problems.

I'd like to see at least some coverage on it, so the citizens of the county are aware of the pros and cons, so they can make up their own minds.

You're gonna have to do the story then because nobody else gives a darn.

[/QUOTE]

Still figuring out why cobb county still had to update their radio system...

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

They didn't!
None of these cities NEED to go to a digital TRS.
Georgia ranks last in integrity amongst all other states. It is precisely these kinds of deals that underscore the incompetence and corruption.
 

dstew67

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I get it that the decision has been made, but that shouldn't exclude educating the public on the process, and how much money is spent on what. Obviously safety is a big reason people read and watch news. After that is finances (personal), heath, family, community, and sometimes curiosity. So, a story on the radio system, how it works, how it helps, how much was spent, why it was needed, are all questions people would have, and answers which would satisfy the appetite of viewers and readers. Of course, that's all from a news manager's perspective.

From a journalist's perspective, I teach young journalists that the number one reason we have jobs is to hold elected, appointed and powerful people accountable for things they say and do. Everyone knows that this credo has been eroded the last couple decades. The era of Edward R Murrow and Peter Jennings has long passed. But that doesn't relieve me of my responsibility to my community to make sure its are informed. The First Amendment was passed so that citizens could observe government, unimpeded. I believe it's been whittled-down from the authors' intent, over time. Sometimes, in the interest of the public, many times to keep us safe from outside forces and ourselves. But sometimes, it is impeded to keep the public ignorant, even for a short period of time, in the interest of corrupt officials. Think Watergate. Think the public corruption of the 70's, which spurred all of the individual states to follow the Freedom of Information Act and pass "Sunshine" Laws of their own, around 1980.

Trying really hard to step down from my righteous and holier-than-thou soapbox now. You can see, I'm passionate about keeping officials accountable. Not prying for my own curiosity or for "ratings." I really am one of the few pure-of-heart journalists in my profession, trying hard to mentor young journalists, and do my own investigative reporting.

Again, the damned soapbox, "get down," I'm screaming at myself. Lol

Done now, as the kids say, "for reals!" :)

[edited because I can't let typos go, even when I should have proofed before hitting send]
 

MTS2000des

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I get it that the decision has been made, but that shouldn't exclude educating the public on the process, and how much money is spent on what.

No disagreement but sadly two things would have to happen:

1)-People would actually have to CARE. The fact is they don't. This is one of the reasons governments have no accountability. If WE THE PEOPLE don't DEMAND accountability, we won't get it. This means taking time to read through hundreds of pages of documents, sending emails to officials asking questions, and going to meetings, many of which are during hours when most people are unable to attend. (Almost like it was designed that way on purpose).

2-The media would actually have to serve the public interest and not just their stockholders/corporate owners. Good luck getting anywhere with this in 2015.

the new congress is fresh full of corporate stooges who will do their constituents work. Set your watch to that.

So, a story on the radio system, how it works, how it helps, how much was spent, why it was needed, are all questions people would have, and answers which would satisfy the appetite of viewers and readers. Of course, that's all from a news manager's perspective.

I'd love to help with such a piece. I'm willing to donate my time and professional expertise. Sadly though, I doubt it will make it pass an editors' desk.

But a good place to start would be the several McClatchy pieces on one vendors' dominance in the industry. Excellent reporting, very surprised a corporate media entity like McClatchy would take on such a deep and damning series:

McClatchy investigates Motorola Solutions

You can see, I'm passionate about keeping officials accountable.

I think many of us are, but we also live in reality.

I am not one who believes all trunking systems are wasteful, a county like Clayton did in fact have an aging and inadequate radio infrastructure that was not even narrowband compliant (they had been operating under a waiver post 2013) and spent quite a number of years vetting their new system.

Did they spend alot of money? Yep, modern public safety grade LMR is costly for a county of that size and population. But they needed it. They were on a different RF band than agencies around them, had major coverage issues (the noise floor on VHF high band is now full of pollution from everything from LED lights to cheap part 15 devices), and didn't have enough voice channels for all the users.

The issue I have as a citizen is the blanket decision to encrypt ALL talkgroups. Granted, at least they used industry standard AES-256 and not some proprietary ghetto encryption like ADP, but I don't think they considered that locking out DISPATCH talkgroups also keeps the "good guys" out. It certainly does not help their already tainted image to the media, that is, if the media even cares.

To their credit, their RFP was put out three years ago and they spelled out everything they wanted, INCLUDING encryption.

The time for people to speak up has long past. Plenty of public meetings between initial RFP and final acceptance occurred. Obviously it wasn't a priority for anyone who lives there, or uses a scanner there, to speak up and make their concerns known.

Just sayin, it's a little too late a this point.

Outdated VHF analog? There's nothing outdated about it. The VHF analog system went a lot further than Cobb County. Not that it needs to.

That isn't the point. The problem was the users of the old system complained of major coverage issues, and on channel interference. They were also operating under an STA.

They did need a new system. Just because trunking may not be right for some rural county (which I concur in most cases it isn't), Clayton county is hardly rural. It is part of the metro Atlanta region, home to the Atlanta airport, and has a population of over a quarter million. All the agencies around them are on 700/800 trunking. It makes perfect sense for them to migrate to such a network, albeit IMO, they SHOULD have worked with the city of Atlanta to expand their Astro 25 phase 1 network into Clayton county and run simulcast sites off the CoA's zone core. This could have shaved off MILLIONS from the purchase price.

But then this would mean actually having to SHARE. Something that is a foreign concept in this region. Hard enough to get some folks to share one pair of frequencies, I can only imagine, it would be like moving a mountain to get two governments to share their stuff! :D

sock puppet's off-topic post text here


They didn't!
None of these cities NEED to go to a digital TRS.
Georgia ranks last in integrity amongst all other states. It is precisely these kinds of deals that underscore the incompetence and corruption.

Can we please ignore the off-topic sock puppets and stick to the topic of CLAYTON COUNTY 700MHz ?

What other counties 30 miles away who aren't a party to Clayton county's system, their choice to encrypt, or what kind of radios someone else are using are otherwise completely off-topic.
 

dstew67

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I think several of us agree on many things. The time to get anything changed about the system, I agree has come and gone. I was thinking education going forward.

Media shares a lot of the blame for current conditions. Culture, too. Honestly, after being in journalism for close to 30 years now, I don't think I know of a solution. How do you get anyone under 30 interested in reading anything that is longer than 10 lines, and doesn't have a catchy picture or video on Facebook. Heck, even Facebook is too old" for anyone under 20.

MTS, I'll take a look at the link and do some thinking on story ideas. I'll keep you posted post-surgery, if I come up with something that will sell in Peoria. Thanks for the offer!

Now, here are a couple Clayton 700MHz questions. Anyone know how many agencies and users are on the system, and what the RFP specs are for? I doubt there is one, but is there a link to the RFP? That would likely have taken a records request and some entity willing to post a fat file.
 

MTS2000des

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Now, here are a couple Clayton 700MHz questions. Anyone know how many agencies and users are on the system, and what the RFP specs are for? I doubt there is one, but is there a link to the RFP? That would likely have taken a records request and some entity willing to post a fat file.

All county agencies (PD, S/O, fire, EMS, and the cities of Riverdale, Lovejoy and Lake City are on the system. Forest Park has their own system but it is interconnected. Morrow is not currently on the system.

Here is a link to all the Clayton county documents, RFPs, approvals, amendments, etc:

http://weba.co.clayton.ga.us/bidcgi-bin/wbd220r.pgm?bidyear=2011&bidnbr=30

And now for something even more interesting, re: Rockdale's system... I wish I would have found this thread earlier. It is refreshing to see that citizens ARE INDEED engaged and asking tough questions. Maybe your editors won't shuffle this to the side?

Interesting reading:

BOCWatch Community Forum • View topic - Public Safety Radio RFP 4.5 million +
 

rapidcharger

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Here is the response I got from requesting all encrypted talk groups for just one 24 hour period. Just came in today.
Your request is not feasible. There are 10,000+ transmissions in the time frame you are requesting. We will have to go through each one to see what is not releasable by law and it will take 50+ hours to complete. The cost will be well over $1,000. With that being said, if you would like to narrow your request or advise what specifically you are looking for, I will be glad to research further.
 

CapStar362

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that was clayton? 24 hours = 10,000+ key ups? must be a dog snot load more activity there now than i ever thought.
 

MTS2000des

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VERY, interesting reading. i was un-aware of this forum in full.

i knew about the Forsyth and Clayton counties copy cat stuff.

I had heard a rumor that Clayton plagiarized the RFP from Floyd county, but this is the first confirmation I got of it.

I got a kick out of Mr. Tusa's comments. "anyone who wants to copy the work of Tusa Consulting better have an attorney queued up ready to roll"

sorry, but what is done with public money IS public record. When you are paid by the taxpayers, you should expect scrutiny. It is OUR RIGHT to demand any and all documentation on any large expenditure of public funds.
 

CapStar362

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i think Tusa's point is, that was a document they created a proprietary template for, making it their property which thus Clayton County had no right to take it and turn it in to their RFP sheet, and remove the copyright notifications. the RFP for Floyd does say "Copyright Tusa Consulting" on several pages. the clayton version does not, yet it has literally the exact same layout, and if i read Tusa correctly, some of the information in 100% Perfect exact wording which was meant for Floyd County. and may cause problems for Clayton if they follow it to the letter.

i very highly doubt Clayton County had the permission to copy and overwrite the information from Tusa's documents for their own Clayton use.
 
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