Clayton County 700Mhz System

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dstew67

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Here's the thing about the Georgia ORR, the 2012 revision doesn't specifically stipulate that audio and video recordings be included, thus, it is clearly open to interpretation by the AG and/or a judge, which would come about when someone requests (and is denied) such recordings.

Nothing in the Georgia ORR specifies that electronic communications (which would include public safety radio traffic) be "in the clear". How on articulates the request will impact largely the response.

Agencies encrypt for a reason. They do NOT want outside parties intercepting their communications.

In North Little Rock, ARK, citizens sued to get access to encrypted radio traffic.

http://forums.radioreference.com/ar...ark-citizens-suing-over-radio-encryption.html

Apparently the city complied with a request to supply an official feed on Broadcastify of their dispatch traffic, on a 30 minute delayed basis.

So...who wants to be the one to spend their thousands of personal dollars and countless hours of time filing motions in Clayton county or Gwinnett county to attempt accomplish the same objective?

Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

The way the law works is, anything that is not specifically exempt is included. That's why the law says ALL records, and only lists exempt records. So, if an agency argues that some record should fall under exempt, and a judge agrees, then it is exempt. Otherwise, it is open.

I get it. Agencies encrypt because they don't want people listening. But therein lies the rub with the Sunshine Law. Government should conduct business in the open. There is nothing in the law which addresses electronic communication, so someone could argue that it is included.

As for who would spend money, likely not an individual. It would likely be a company or group, like a media company or some private group which wants to set a precedent so that electronic communications be in the clear.

But there's another, much cheaper route. Someone could ask the AG for an official opinion. Once an AG's official opinion is given, it has the effect of law, until that opinion is overturned in court. Among groups or individuals who could request an opinion is the agency in question, if they want to know whether communications are exempt and want to ensure they are abiding by the law. Also, any lawmaker or the governor. If you can bend their ear, the AG is obligated to issue one. He doesn't have a choice.

I've been in journalism for nearly 3 decades. I've never once spoken to an AG who felt that electronic communications are exempt from their state's Sunshine Law. If someone wanted to push the issue, it would floor me if this state's AG felt differently.

I don't have a dog in this fight, though. I'm not going ask for this agency's communications to be in the clear. I honestly couldn't care less, because I don't want to monitor them. I'm sure the local paper, most likely the residents of the town, and maybe a TV newsroom, might feel differently. I'm only saying that an agency would be acting in the spirit of the law if their radio communications were to be in the clear, so long as it doesn't endanger people during a critical incident, mission or investigation.
 

dstew67

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Going back to read my initial post, I now realize that my intention to ask why this agency wanted to encrypt, was buried and didn't come across very well (or maybe at all). So, let me ask, more clearly this time, does anyone know why they wanted or felt like they needed to encrypt? Was there some event which caused them to make this decision?
 

N8IAA

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Going back to read my initial post, I now realize that my intention to ask why this agency wanted to encrypt, was buried and didn't come across very well (or maybe at all). So, let me ask, more clearly this time, does anyone know why they wanted or felt like they needed to encrypt? Was there some event which caused them to make this decision?

Dave, how long have you lived in the metro area? Clayton county has had many issues that the news media highlights. Wouldn't you want to hide your light under a basket too:roll:
Larry
 

dstew67

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Dave, how long have you lived in the metro area? Clayton county has had many issues that the news media highlights. Wouldn't you want to hide your light under a basket too:roll:
Larry

Not long, Larry. I moved here about a year and a half ago to go to work for CNN, but just recently started listening again. When I was in local, part of my job involved listening to anywhere from 10-20 scanners. When I moved here, frankly I was happy to be rid of the requirement. I started listening to radios with my dad when I was about 6 or 7, but after a while of having to constantly monitor that many radios, I just got burned out. When I bought a new car, I didn't even bother installing any radios.

Now I have some back and neck problems, and it would be a little difficult for me to run cables and wires. I wish I had done it when I felt a little better. At least my 2m/70cm dual band. I'm scheduled for some surgery at the end of the month, and I started thinking about how I'm going to remain sane during what is expected to be a long recovery. I knew scanning and dusting off my call sign would help. My VX-6R bit the dust, so I just bought an FT-60. I'm only a technician, so I'm limited in what I can do. Before I got burned out, I intended to get my General license, but I never got around to it. I also got the new Uniden 436HP. I almost got the GRE, but decided last minute that learning how a GRE worked was just one more thing I'd have to learn. The 436 seems to do well.

I got a little off topic. I'm not aware of any of the history of Clayton County, but you have my curiosity piqued. I may spend a little of my recovery time reading up :wink:
 

MTS2000des

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Here's my take on the corporate media in this town, speaking from the position of a life long resident (born in Cobb county)...the corporate media does not care about public safety radio. Of all the systems in the metro that have gone incognito, not ONE media outlet has ever done a story. Not ONE.

They are too interested in puff pieces and other filler to report on anything of substance. WSB-TV does like to highlight Gwinnett county's tight lipped approach (most recent story was yesterday about a homicide in Buford near Mall of Georgia), but they say nothing about their own inability to monitor the traffic in those jurisdictions.

When Clayton county flash cut to their fully encrypted 700MHz Astro 25 phase 2 network in October, not a peep from the media about it. Despite that county being wrought with corruption going back a decade or more, one would think this would be a great story. But no, constant puff pieces on Obamacare and auto accidents fill the airwaves.

Maybe that's why corporate media ratings of these so-called "news" outlets is at an all time low. sorry Dave, I have little love for corporate media these days.
 

rapidcharger

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The initial response at the end of the day yesterday yielded some developments.
1.) They only keep the audio recordings for 3 years.
2.) There was some confusion of what I meant by radio traffic. It sounded like they thought I was requesting the 911 calls. I clarified. Still waiting for a response but don't expect one til next week.

Dave, do you have a base station set up in the shack for 2m?
 

dstew67

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MTS2000des, You might be surprised that I share your sentiment about local news. It's this way all across the country.

The constraints put on reporters is such that they can't do any investigative reporting. For the late newscasts, they show up at 2p for the afternoon meeting. By 3p they are making calls, trying to get someone who will talk on camera about whatever story they're doing. By 5p-5:30p, they have all their interviews shot and they grab something to eat on the go and call the producer to give them an update on what the story will look like. The reporter starts to write while they eat, the photographer starts to shoot b-roll. By 7p, they are back at the station. By 8p, the reporter is finished writing. By 9p, their story airs on their own or their sister station's 9p newscast. Then they do a different angle for 10p.

The dayside reporters, its much the same, only they're in by 9a and on the air at 5p and 6p, sometimes 4p. When you have little to no say on what story you will do (decided by a managing editor or executive producer), you come in, you do your story, and you're happy to get the heck out of the station.

Newspapers have cut their staffs in half, and in half again, and in half again, since the days of Woodward and Bernstein. So, little investigative work in done there either.

Now, if we add to that mix the fact that you write what you know, no story about a county radio system is going to get on the air. Not unless you have a town council meeting with people throwing things and one councilperson taking a swing at another. I'm being a little dramatic, but unless you have a reporter pitch the story in such a matter that the producer, executive producer and managing editor all think is a story that can be told in 60-90 seconds, and that people will be interested it, it's not going to make it to air. Unless you have a reporter who understands what they will be writing about, or has someone to guide them through the ins and outs of the story, it won't get on the air.

I've done ONE single story my whole career about a radio system, and it involved a situation where a cop, a state trooper and two perps all died in a head on fiery crash because the trooper who was racing to back up another trooper had no idea that the city was in pursuit going the wrong way on the interstate. A city official got on the air and said "thank god the citizens passed a quarter cent sales tax, so we can build a radio system that will take with the state system (Moto 800 trunked)." Cut to several years later when the city's Edacs ProVoice system was installed. I produced a series of stories, after which the city spent even more money for several bridges so the agencies could talk, but it is flawed at best, today. In this story, you had to officers killed, video of the aftermath, audio of the dispatch channel where an officer is frantically calling for fire and ems, nearly screaming "officer down, officer down. Major crash. Start Fire and EMSA (local ems)." You have compelling and emotional elements, a city official on camera saying they would put together a system which would allow both agencies to talk to each other, and a system where those same officials admit on camera has flaws, and that the two systems would eventually be able to talk to each other, after the bridges are put into place.

Nobody was going to be able to do that story, if I hadn't been in a place where I could produce them, and do the interviews on my own time and bring it to the news director on a silver platter. That story just would not get told, because nobody knew what was happening, and they certainly didn't know how to write it.

Mine is not a perfect profession. Journalists are ultimately answer to the money makers who want ratings, so they can charge more for advertising. Congress passed laws to separate stations' sales departments from newsrooms. If you've ever been to one, they are normally on opposite sides of the buildings. General managers are the go-between which separate sales from the newsroom. But general managers are beholden to corporate, so you can see that if you don't have a strong GM who will back the newsroom, there's a temptation to side with the sales department, without which, nobody would get a paycheck. The system is flawed, but you do have journalists who want to tell good stories. You have newsroom managers who want their reporters, producers and anchors to tell good stories. But, I've only met a few people in journalism, mostly engineers and meteorologists, who are hams. I would love to see a really good story on the air here about a radio system, but we won't see it unless someone dies as a result of mutual aid failure, like the hot shots in Arizona, or something big like the AZ stories the national news did, somewhat well, when that report came out.

Furthermore, you won't see anything in print or on air, unless journalists know about it. If you want to see a story on the air, pitch it to a reporter, but pitch it in such a way that you can tee it up for them. Tell them what's wrong, why it matters, and who or what is standing in the way of it getting fixed. Someone with knowledge of Clayton County's history might be able to persuade a reporter that this is a good story and that something hangs in the balance.

So, MTS2000des, I don't have much love for reporters who tell those fluff pieces either. I no longer manage a newsroom, but when I did, I demanded good quality journalism from the newsroom. One of the biggest issues facing my profession today, and this is really for another conversation, is mentoring, or the lack of it today. When I started out, someone put their proverbial arm around my shoulder and told me why we do what we do, how to do it, and what not to do. You don't get that with a journalism degree.

Sorry this is so long, I just also feel strongly that my profession is lacking these days. I hope it can change, but I have my doubts.

rapidcharger, I do not have anything set up. I'm in an apartment in Midtown. They would frown on my putting up a tower from my balcony. All I have working right now is the HT.
 

CapStar362

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Dave, i can fully answer your question to Clayton County under one word.


CORRUPTION



i lived there for 9 years ( ended 3 ago )

and this video should show you too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbmd7qzcA-8

This guy lives in Florida. but came to GA and did SEVERAL videos in several jurisdictions. including a illegal stop by a Dobbins USAF MP. but this above video. i even KNOW the Jonesboro PD Cop. he keeps that face and attitude 100% .

you can clearly see he is not and never was on Justice Center's property. yet SO's Captain and that JPD Cop don't care. now some speculate they found his car, got his ID and left. we don't know nor does he.

but that right there, shows you exactly why Clayton County has no honesty. and they want no part of having any transparency. so they took the gun and fired full encryption. bam.... no accountability for anything they do.


AT THE SAME TIME

you have to understand clayton county also. the populations of clayton county are corrupt beyond any city in GA that i have spent time in. these are the people that buy 200 $ Hair wigs, 150$ Shoes, 400$ clothing sets and then claim they need food stamps. and then when they get the stamps, they run around various gas stations and grocery stores discreetly whispering at random people : "hey, 50 for 75" <-- this is code for ill give you 75$ of food stamps for 50$ of cash to buy drugs and booze that my food stamps doesn't allow.


yet no body will acknowledge after hundreds of reports of this abuse to do anything to suspend these accounts.

i have reported and even provided receipts to people doing this and even once a discreet photo of a guy doing this. and my report just got buried.

ultimate issue: Clayton does not care, nor do they want to care. they uphold that tradition of being the most ghetto-fied part of Atlanta. sorry to say.
 

dstew67

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Wow! There are so many things wrong in that video, I don't know where to begin. He's being "detained investigatively" and yet he's free to go.

I can't really comment very much, in case I am ever involved in a story about this subject, but I will go as far as to say that I believe he was within his rights to stand there and take photos. As long as he's not taking pictures over a fence or where the public is not free to go, he can take pictures and video with sound of anything he likes.
 

MTS2000des

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MTS2000des, You might be surprised that I share your sentiment about local news. It's this way all across the country.
.

and thanks to doing away with the fairness doctrine, docket 80/90, telecom act of 1996, et al, we now have a small handful of elitists who own the media. Gone are local, state or regional operators (well, there are still some Entercomms and such) but the mainstay of TV and Radio is owned by a few corporate operators. Just follow the money.

I am well aware of how news departments work. In college my career plans were to become a broadcast engineer. This was back in the mid 1990s when the industry was in it's final stages of conglomerating and deregulating (notice they went hand in hand).

I concur with most of what you said. I get how the business is run. Even more lean and cost cutter than when I was in it for a short time.

Mine is not a perfect profession. Journalists are ultimately answer to the money makers who want ratings, so they can charge more for advertising.

and that is the flaw with corporate sponsored media. True journalists will report but will be censored by the corporate paymasters who answer to advertisers and owners.

Ever see the film "The Insider" with Al Pacino?

One of the biggest issues facing my profession today, and this is really for another conversation, is mentoring, or the lack of it today. When I started out, someone put their proverbial arm around my shoulder and told me why we do what we do, how to do it, and what not to do. You don't get that with a journalism degree.

Again, you can thank corporate conglomeration and consolidation for this. Most of the veterans have been forced out. If you aren't in LA or NYC in an executive office, and you're a veteran, you are starving like everyone else.

In radio at least, one could make a good living as a program director, music director, news director...all those once LOCAL positions were eliminated by the "big three". All those decisions are now made from HQ in Dallas, Atlanta or LA.

Mentoring? It's every man and woman for himself/herself. No one has time for it. And those that do are skeptical because the one you mentor may be gunning for your job once the next ratings period starts over.

No disrespect, I am glad I got out of the business early on. It's sad to see what it has done to itself. It really is
 

MTS2000des

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I'm in an apartment in Midtown. They would frown on my putting up a tower from my balcony. All I have working right now is the HT.

BTW welcome to Atlanta!

Did I mention that before?

Another thing that we lack is decent ham radio infrastructure. You'd think in a town of millions of people and thousands of hams, we would have great systems but we don't.

My little non-profit operates a UHF repeater from North Marietta, if you are high up enough you might be able to bring it up. 443.45 +5 with a PL of 103.5

There are a few downtown repeaters, sadly, most of them lack portable coverage. The Atlanta Radio Club has 146.82 PL 146.2 and 444.825 PL 146.2 on the former Bank of America building, but they are pathetically deaf to portables. Don't know why, but they are.

None the less, welcome!

The brand of stupidity, arrogance and ignorance displayed by our governments would keep a seasoned reporter like yourself busy year round. Sad part is many of your stories would go unaired...but I digress...
 

dstew67

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Well, that's quite the welcome. Thank you! Yes, it's sad to see the business in the shape it is. I'm not sure anything can fix things now, but I hold out hope that the few people who own small operations will hold on to what they have, rather than cave to the almighty dollar and pressure to sell.

I've been able to get in clear on both ARC's VHF and UHF repeaters with my HT on 2W, but sitting in my apartment in Midtown is no real test. We'll see what happens when I get our and about. I'll try the 443.45 repeater.
 

CapStar362

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Wow! There are so many things wrong in that video, I don't know where to begin. He's being "detained investigatively" and yet he's free to go.

I can't really comment very much, in case I am ever involved in a story about this subject, but I will go as far as to say that I believe he was within his rights to stand there and take photos. As long as he's not taking pictures over a fence or where the public is not free to go, he can take pictures and video with sound of anything he likes.

exactly. watch some of his stuff , watch the Dobbins one. MP is in violation of Uniform Code with the sun glasses, illegally stops a citizen and is guilty of violating G.O. #1. he left his post. the moment he crossed the fence line. he is outside of his post.

one single move violates 1 minor code, and 2 major ones.
 

CapStar362

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not always, Jeff gets a good number of them who do "HONOR" what he does. hell even a good number of them. one particular

DEA involved. DEA Agent assaulted Jeff and the other guy, DEA called in a false report, and hung up on 911. JCSO Came in, released Jeff and told him to file a report and LET HIM CONTINUE FILMING. JCSO likes him actually.

many videos LEO's let him continue as long as he does not do anything illegal, which in not 1 of his videos is illegal. he is testing his rights. and wins everytime.
 

dstew67

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not always, Jeff gets a good number of them who do "HONOR" what he does. hell even a good number of them. one particular

DEA involved. DEA Agent assaulted Jeff and the other guy, DEA called in a false report, and hung up on 911. JCSO Came in, released Jeff and told him to file a report and LET HIM CONTINUE FILMING. JCSO likes him actually.

many videos LEO's let him continue as long as he does not do anything illegal, which in not 1 of his videos is illegal. he is testing his rights. and wins everytime.

May be a stupid question (many of mine tend to be), but who or what is JCSO? I'm guessing something-county sheriff office. If so, which county and state?

Edited to fix a typo
 

CapStar362

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ill have to get that. i think its Jacksonville County Florida.

conflicting info though.....

JCSO points to Jacksonville Florida SO, but is listed as Duval County Officially. never heard of a SO called by City instead of official County they are in.

if they do it, that is purely a first for me.



The next one he did (I think it was) with Marietta PD was pretty childish on behalf of the cops also.
They do this (violate his rights) almost everywhere he goes.

he has done Clayton, Dobbins ( Cobb County ), Marietta, Gwinnett, and Atlanta PD.
 
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