Collinear, 1/4 wave GP, or J Pole (arrow)

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paulears

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I have one of these J-poles - built into a tube
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sirio-CX...033719?hash=item441c355677:g:m28AAMXQS6pRyUbo

It works, but isn't any better than a dipole, despite the lower radiation angle. As for slim Jims - all the local older hams around here had one a Fred's Slim Jims. He knocked them up for everyone as he only lived a few miles away near Cantley. He built most of the non-metal hardware from. offcuts of perspex - a good insulator. I helped put quite a few up as most of the fellas then were not really up top doing ladders. NONE were grounded in any way other than the coax in the shack. Fred also built a few for the local fishermen who used them on boats, again - simply cabled to the radio, with no metal work to ground. He bent the aluminium *(much of it second hand and scavenged from old VHF low band TV antennas) on a former, and the coax was attached with solder tags, secured with self-tappers or pop rivets. Adjustment of the one he gave me was a bit off - 2:1 VSWR was the best - and he told me it was the length of coax. His solution was two small jubilee clips - small versions of the car hose types, and these had the coax slipped under them, slid up and down the tube till the VSWR was lowest and then tightened and varnished to waterproof it. Mine lasted 6 months before water got in. I never found them good antennas, but they did the job and were cheap to build. A stuck up a dual band Jaybeam which was hugely better and worked on both bands.

Despite all the G2's and G3's on the early morning net using them, us youngsters didn't like them.

Fred was very knowledgeable but not the easiest person to have a discussion with. I didn't find him receptive to questions at all.
 

AK9R

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A lower-case lambda (λ) is used to designate wavelength. So, λ/2 is half of the wavelength.

A signal on 146 MHz has a wavelength of 2.05 meters or 80.7 inches. So, half the wavelength at 146 MHz would be 40.4 inches.

The classic J-pole design has a 1/2 wavelength radiator that is end-coupled using a transformer made out of parallel 1/4 wavelength elements. Hopefully, that helps explain the diagram you posted.
 

SpugEddy

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W9BU;2922654 The classic J-pole design has a 1/2 wavelength radiator that is end-coupled using a transformer made out of parallel 1/4 wavelength elements. Hopefully said:
So the diagram shows the first element "A" as being 1/4 wave.
According to all of the other diagrams and the lengths, that element
is actually 3/4 wave (using 465 Mhz)
NOW, Should I be basing all of my math on the 465 Mhz or the 155 Mhz frequency?
I think I lost sight of the fact that this is a "dual band" antenna.

Using 465 Mhz ------->Using 155 Mhz
3/4 wave = 18" ------>1/4 wave = 19.41"
3/4 wave = 18" ------>1/2 wave = 38.8"

Now I'm seeing that a 1/4 wave @ 155 is very close to
a 3/4 wave @ 465 and also the 1/2 wave @ 155 is double
that of the 3/4 @ 465. Adding together the ½ and ¼ waves
@ 155 (or 3/4 wave @ 155) is 58.25"

I'm sorry guys, but I'm not very good with EZNEC (actually I stink at it)
I tried using it, but when I had questions, EZNEC never responded
with an answer. I am more of a "talk it out" kind of person.
That is why I incorporated this forum. There is a massive wealth
of information in all of you guys.
 

AK9R

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In the out-of-the-box, un-modified Arrow dual-band J-pole:

  • the longest element is 3/4 wave (1/4 wave plus 1/2 wave) for 2m
  • the next longest element is 1/4 wave for 2m and also 3/4 wave for 440 MHz
  • and the shortest element is 1/4 wave for 440 MHz.
 

SpugEddy

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In the out-of-the-box, un-modified Arrow dual-band J-pole:

  • the longest element is 3/4 wave (1/4 wave plus 1/2 wave) for 2m
  • the next longest element is 1/4 wave for 2m and also 3/4 wave for 440 MHz
  • and the shortest element is 1/4 wave for 440 MHz.

PERFECT.... That's more or less what I've been looking
for. I almost talked myself into the right lengths with a lot
of help from you guys....

I knew what the lengths were but I didn't know "why" and
didn't know what they did and that made it impossible to
recalculate. (Does any of that make sense?)

Anyway ... Thank you guys for all of your input
 
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paulears

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The j-pole is resonant at UHF by accident, and is not a very good performing antenna at 3x the design frequency. The matching is a bit lossy, and it works in the same way that anything metallic up in the air does. It is not meant to be a dual band antenna - as the performance on UHF is compromised.
 

majoco

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The only ground on a proper J-Pole or Slim Jim is where the coax braid is fixed to the matching stub. There should be NO grounded metal within a half-wavelength of the bottom of the antenna.

Read here....

https://forums.radioreference.com/build-your-own-antenna/367174-open-stub-j-poles.html

...about the Arrow "J-Pole" - not a J-pole and never will be.

Never mind all the hearsay, here's the real story...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-pole_antenna


Here's a pic of my Slim Jim - it was made over 30years ago along a piece of 32mm waste pipe and apart from a bit of maintenance it has served very well

https://forums.radioreference.com/a...8d1510256857-2-meter-j-pole-slim-jim-crop.jpg
 
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SpugEddy

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Interesting replies guys. I have read both of those
articles a while ago. What I find interesting is Arrow's
labeling. They call it an "Open Stub J-Pole" and several
forums argue what kind of antenna this actually is. It appears
to be a J-Pole however, it has the 3rd element which is
(according to Arrow) supposed to be adjusted to obtain
50Ω.

Having said that, today I finished the "Arrow OSJ" with
the long element. Much to my surprise, without doing any
adjustments, my swr is 1.4:1 at 467 Mhz (my previous posts
said 462 Mhz and I readjusted my numbers since 467 is
where I am actually transmitting) My Ed Fong antenna has
an SWR of 4:1 on 467 Mhz. WHAT??????
4:1 SWR, so I have abandoned that antenna all together
before I blow the PA.

Several times, I've switched gears and tried to make an
actual J-Pole out of copper tubing, but I always hit a wall
when it comes to the spacing between the 2 elements. When
I redo the calculations for 467 Mhz, the gap between the 2
elements cannot be achieved using a "T"ee connector and
an elbow. If I remember right, just the 2 connectors, without
any pipe to join them, is just over 3/4". The recalculated gap
is something like 3/8" or 1/2"
 
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wx5uif

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When I built one I ended up sawing some of the connection point off of both fittings to make the measurement obtainable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

paulears

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I wonder if the confusion about grounding is simply because the antenna is grounded from the DC perspective, which those convinced this is safer in lightning conditions are happy? I just wonder if this then translates to people grounding from the top?
 

SpugEddy

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Yes, but does it radiate? A dummy load will give a 1.0:1 VSWR too.

With the testing done so far, everybody on the repeaters
are telling me that I have "crystal clear" audio and increased
signal with the new homemade. I'm also able to open repeaters
that I could not open before. The reports from those freq's are the
same. Crystal clear audio, no scratch, no static with a nice signal.
Keep in mind that this is still in test mode and the base of the antenna
is literally 7½ feet off the ground. More testing when I get it higher
 
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