Columbia Co

[djeplett]

OK I'm working on making two videos of how encryption sounds on my WS1040 and how simulcast sounds also. (A WS1040 is identical to the PSR500, the PRO-106, the PRO-197 and a WS1065. They are all radios that were a GRE design so they will receive virtually the same.)
This first vid is simulcast distortion. You get an intelligible syllable every once in a while. Also, the signal strength with vary.

simulcast.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[djeplett]

Of course, non of the sheriff departments nearby who use 100% encryption are busy now, so I will upload a video of that later, hopefully.

 

[SCNRHEAD]

OK that is what it is sounding like (video). Duckie experiment pointing at tower sounded pretty good with attenuator on my 500, but using my outside antenna hooked to my 106,197, it sounds like your video. Turning on attenuator just cuts signal but sounds the same but only weaker. I'm familiar with encrypted and that sounds totally diff.

 

[djeplett]

Up here in Waupaca County they went to a simulcasted system a few years back that supposedly transmits simultaneously from about 6 towers on only one frequency; not trunked. The system techs had to sychronize the GPS receivers at each site to make sure they were transmitting in sync as the system had issues at first. I still don't think they got it quite right but it is better. Often I hear units complaining to each other that they were digitized when I heard both of them just fine. And then other times units talk back and forth and I will miss a short transmission when clearly they both heard each other just fine. Even trying to use my Uniden SDS scanners on the system doesn't help things at all. In fact, I can hear more clearly on this system with my WS1040 by programming the channel for P25 with no NAC. It opens the squelch much quicker than my SDS scanners and I then have a chance to catch the transmissions. (Or at least parts of them.)

My theory is they are using C4FM P25 and not LSM and the towers are slightly too far apart to properly simulcast C4FM. The techs have tried setting the system up to work with it, but it's still not perfect. Which is why my SDS scanners don't do better on it. If it truly was LSM then they'd do exceptionally well like mine do on the Outagamie/Winnebago TRS, which is LSM.

So that leads to you guys down there. Columbia might have went this same route and you are experiencing LSM distortion because the GRE lineage radios were never designed to receive LSM. Uniden's SDS radios were and are exceptional on LSM systems. However, if Columbia went the route that Waupaca did, in my experience they will fare even worse. And the GRE radios will receive an LSM system just fine if you are located near to one tower so it's signal can overpower every other one. The timing difference doesn't affect it. Which is probably why the friend with the WS1065 is having no problems as he must be receiving one tower much more strongly than the others.

Since the article said they intend on using encryption, I would hesitate to try an SDS series scanner unless you can return it with 100% money back.

Try to experiment with all the examples in the following article and let us know if any of it helps:

Simulcast Distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[SCNRHEAD]

Awesome Thanks I'll give it a look

 

[SCNRHEAD]

I was starting to read that this mourning, when last time that you mentioned simulcast. I am in the midlle of a bunch of towers/tower repeaters within 10 miles or less so I'm sure that I'm getting all of them. Almost surrounded. Used to be a good thing LOL!

 

[wirr]

Much, if not most, of the traffic on 154.875 P25 is not encrypted, so far.

 

[SaukScanR]

Much, if not most, of the traffic on 154.875 P25 is not encrypted, so far.

You are hearing it in the clear?!
Starting this morning, I have been hearing small amounts of broken voice included in the static now and then.

 

[djeplett]

@wirr do you think their new system is simulcast and what make & model scanner are you monitoring Columbia with?

 

[SCNRHEAD]

Wirr very true only heard techs using encrypted when test days ago.

 

[SCNRHEAD]

ScanSaukR I'm still getting broken voice tried everything in simulcast wiki, had to separate one scanner from my outside antenna and put a duckie on to listen. Still not good enough but halfway legible.

 

[wirr]

@djeplett It is simulcast. Using a Uniden BCD996XT.

 

[SaukScanR]

ScanSaukR I'm still getting broken voice tried everything in simulcast wiki, had to separate one scanner from my outside antenna and put a duckie on to listen. Still not good enough but halfway legible.

When I hear it my scanner display shows P25, and sometimes LNK.

 

[SaukScanR]

Someone just told me "the BCD996XT is phase one only. I can confirm on a phase 2 p25 transmission can be heard"

 

[djeplett]

Someone just told me "the BCD996XT is phase one only. I can confirm on a phase 2 p25 transmission can be heard"

What scanner are they using? If a TRX-1 I have seen those scanners incorrectly identify phase 1 transmissions as phase 2.

 

[cpd38]

I'm listening to it right now. Everything is in the clear and sounds great. Uniden SDS100

 

[SCNRHEAD]

Ya in my vehicle with my mobile antenna sounds great too (18"mag mount). Obviously my outside tri-band omni is getting overloaded since I'm surrounded by their antennas/repeaters. Only thing I guess that I can do at this point is to run a yagi pointing at the source SO.

 

[djeplett]

Finally caught encryption today on my WS1040.

Just for comparison, this is what encryption sounds like on a WS1040 which is virtually identical to a PSR-500, PRO-106, PRO-197, etc. etc...
encryption.mp4
Note that the signal does not vary a bunch and that you never catch a syllable here or there. It has been compared to how Donald Duck sounds.

 

[whop94]

If I were a betting man I would say that ultimately a lot of law comms in Columbia Co will be encrypted simply based on that article in WiscNews a couple years back where the Sheriff said that was his goal, that said it sounds a lot like what you all are hearing is simulcast distortion, not encryption at this point. When DaneCom went up I tried pretty much every kind of workaround to get my TRS 100 to work with the system but had no luck whatsoever, I live pretty much in the center of the county and couldn't even lock a signal. The only real workaround is to invest in either the Uniden SDS 100/200 or a Unication G5 pager with VHF, they unfortunately don't come terribly cheap, especially considering the odds that traffic will get fully encrypted in the future, however it's the only solution that doesn't ultimately end in headache.

 

[SCNRHEAD]

Based on what I've seen 30 yrs ago with friends uniden radios not scanning properly, programing not working, screens not working, ect, ect. I went with only shacks Gre manufactured radios, because there almost bullet proof. Actually had one fall off my car roof at 40 mph picked it up put batteries back in the battery holder and fired it up. Some of the reviews I have read on the SDS, I don't think their manufacturing or QC is much better now.