That would be a charger that just uses a timer and thermal detection.
Eneloops & the 436HP
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That would be a charger that just uses a timer and thermal detection.
SOFA_KING
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Focus Opus
The Opus BT-C3400 is here, and finished up its first discharge/charge cycle on a set of spent 436 batteries. It's early, and much more evaluation will be done, but I really like how this one works. Great user interface with easy control and selectable information display. It did a nice and even cycle on all three cells. And the default settings are just right for slamming the cells in and walking away. Doesn't get any easier. It has the three full cycle Refresh mode, but I'm probably going to like the Charge Test mode, which first charges, discharges, and then fully charges the cells measuring the capacity. Another nice thing about this charger is when it says FULL, it's really finished...unlike the other one that needed continued charging after it said it was "DONE". The backlight is sufficiently bright enough, but turns off after about 10 seconds of inactivity on button pushes. However, the backlight can be toggled to stay on if you wish, and turned back off when you want. And of course this one can do Li Ion batteries, and a nice selection of various sizes (not just AA or AAA). I have yet to try any of those.
As soon as I can, I'm going to do Charge Tests on the 16 Odec 2450 mah batteries I purchased along with the charger. Nice looking cells, and heavy! That is a good sign. More on those after I run them all through the test.
Phil
The Opus BT-C3400 is here, and finished up its first discharge/charge cycle on a set of spent 436 batteries. It's early, and much more evaluation will be done, but I really like how this one works. Great user interface with easy control and selectable information display. It did a nice and even cycle on all three cells. And the default settings are just right for slamming the cells in and walking away. Doesn't get any easier. It has the three full cycle Refresh mode, but I'm probably going to like the Charge Test mode, which first charges, discharges, and then fully charges the cells measuring the capacity. Another nice thing about this charger is when it says FULL, it's really finished...unlike the other one that needed continued charging after it said it was "DONE". The backlight is sufficiently bright enough, but turns off after about 10 seconds of inactivity on button pushes. However, the backlight can be toggled to stay on if you wish, and turned back off when you want. And of course this one can do Li Ion batteries, and a nice selection of various sizes (not just AA or AAA). I have yet to try any of those.
As soon as I can, I'm going to do Charge Tests on the 16 Odec 2450 mah batteries I purchased along with the charger. Nice looking cells, and heavy! That is a good sign. More on those after I run them all through the test.
Phil
i'll admit being able to toggle the back light is a nice option. would be nice if the maha had this feature, but not a deal breaker. i thought the buttons on the opus LOOKED LIKE (i do not own one so guesstimating here) that they were designed similar to the bc700, a design i do not like. had to push several times to get them to work sometimes, and they all seemed like they were on a similar mechanism somehow (prob not explaining that right). my MAHA charged the AAs to 1.46 or 1.45 volts, i did think that was lower that the bc700 which charged to at least 1.5 or 1.52 etc. but, when i put the 1.46 and.45 cells in the 436 it read 4.25 volts, which is as high as i have ever seen it. but, some ops are saying leave them in charger two 2 hours when finished and they will take more. but, so far, i like the charger and the buttons and most other things seem like better quality than the bc700. i am using 500 to charge the batteries now as ops have been saying to do at least 500 for the charger to detect when they are charged. 200 was not good for this, so i read. have not used the other features this far, just CHARGE and at 500. it takes a few button pushed to move back to 500 from the 1000, and my opinion is BIG DEAL. one advt of the opus from your post, can do other battery sizes, that is a BIG plus. again, i could send this one back. but i like it. so i prob wont. would be nice to do other size batteries BUT i really do not use other sizes much at all, except if it did 9 volt for one of my metal detectors. does it do 9 volt batts? prob not.
SOFA_KING
Member
No, no 9 V batteries. I was contemplating another well reviewed charger that did do 9 V, as well as RAM and even up to D sized batteries. It even had USB ports on it with one being 2.4 A. I liked that! But the size was a little too big for my already tight travel suitcase. And even though it was a reliable smart charger, I didn't see any mention of the advanced analysis displays or reconditioning tools. Price was fair, but I took a pass.
The BC-700 is quite a few generations back from this 3400. I read about that one, and all the others right up to the 3400. Some of those did very well. The 1000 being highly regarded for quite a while. The 3100 and 3400 are more advanced, and mostly advancing towards Li Ion technologies. It just made more sense to try and stay ahead of the curve with newer offerings.
No problems with the buttons on mine...not yet, anyway. Believe me, if I notice a problem with anything, I'll post about it. A major improvement to me is being able to group all slots to the same commands. This is especially nice when you are charging in matched sets. And if I want to view just capacity, or another single measurement parameter, it stays on that parameter until I switch it to another measurement parameter. That I found better than waiting for the information to rotate through all the measurements, and I found it nicer to see one parameter for all batteries charging in a set to compare the cells with each other.
Although it's early, I'm also noticing the higher voltage on completed charge cycles, but even more importantly the cells in my (known) set are showing more consistency across all cells that I never had before. There always used to be a wide variation of values that concerned me. Not so on this 3400. And on my first run of a known set, I'm already getting much higher capacity measurements up in the 26 hundreds! All cells were over 2500, but one almost reached 2700. I never witnessed that on the other charger.
Maybe one of the biggest improvements of this Opus is the ability to accept older cells that may still be usable and resurrected from the dead by not being rejected for higher resistance. I will be testing that soon to see what it can do with those Powerex cells that wimped out in short order. The Powerex charger wouldn't touch those at all. With the other charger I was never able to recondition any of the batteries that crossed that 2.x resistance threshold. That alone could add up to some savings, and is what an advanced reconditioning charger should be all about. Why pay the extra price if it doesn't address those cells? I'll report back on that after some testing. I now wish I had a couple of these. I have too many batteries to test!
Phil
The BC-700 is quite a few generations back from this 3400. I read about that one, and all the others right up to the 3400. Some of those did very well. The 1000 being highly regarded for quite a while. The 3100 and 3400 are more advanced, and mostly advancing towards Li Ion technologies. It just made more sense to try and stay ahead of the curve with newer offerings.
No problems with the buttons on mine...not yet, anyway. Believe me, if I notice a problem with anything, I'll post about it. A major improvement to me is being able to group all slots to the same commands. This is especially nice when you are charging in matched sets. And if I want to view just capacity, or another single measurement parameter, it stays on that parameter until I switch it to another measurement parameter. That I found better than waiting for the information to rotate through all the measurements, and I found it nicer to see one parameter for all batteries charging in a set to compare the cells with each other.
Although it's early, I'm also noticing the higher voltage on completed charge cycles, but even more importantly the cells in my (known) set are showing more consistency across all cells that I never had before. There always used to be a wide variation of values that concerned me. Not so on this 3400. And on my first run of a known set, I'm already getting much higher capacity measurements up in the 26 hundreds! All cells were over 2500, but one almost reached 2700. I never witnessed that on the other charger.
Maybe one of the biggest improvements of this Opus is the ability to accept older cells that may still be usable and resurrected from the dead by not being rejected for higher resistance. I will be testing that soon to see what it can do with those Powerex cells that wimped out in short order. The Powerex charger wouldn't touch those at all. With the other charger I was never able to recondition any of the batteries that crossed that 2.x resistance threshold. That alone could add up to some savings, and is what an advanced reconditioning charger should be all about. Why pay the extra price if it doesn't address those cells? I'll report back on that after some testing. I now wish I had a couple of these. I have too many batteries to test!
Phil
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please do report back as i can always send my maha back. not sure how long i have on amazon. 2 weeks maybe, maybe longer? so, i could send back like i did the bc700. be nice to be able to do other battery sizes like C and D. thanks for the detailed review you are in the process of.
SOFA_KING
Member
Well Scott, the Powerex 2700 batteries I wrote off for dead years ago went through the full refresh process and actually did revive back to some usable service on the BT-C3400. I was surprised. Mind you, they were so weak before that it would dump power on my PSR-800 as soon as you pressed scan. Internal resistance now reads 1.8 to 2.1 between the four, and capacity around 1500 to 1600 mAh. Perfect for my HP-1 that never uses batteries to power it, but needs batteries in it to allow recording.
I actually ran my first set of Odec 2450 mAh cells in the HP-1 using battery power. Didn't pay attention to how long they lasted, but observed something interesting after I put them back in the charger on Discharge mode to make sure they were fully drained. At 200 mA draw they were getting close to 0.9 V where the charger stops draining, but I forgot to do a resistance test on the Powerex batteries, so I interrupted that briefly and came back to discharging at the default of 500 mA. The voltage started going down and then started rising! It actually did that for quite a while. Oh, I've seen that plenty of times on batteries begging for a vigorous workout. The Odecs should be fine in these medium to low drain scanner devices, but will need to run hard on the treadmill (Opus) every once and awhile. They were designed to run hard, and scanners don't run them hard enough.
The Opus is performing well and indicating good consistent values. Battery voltages are higher and capacities vastly improved. That known set I first tested looked unimpressive on the Maha with some capacity reading as low as 2300 mAh, but they all read up to (or over) spec on the Opus. That could equate to an hour more run time on the scanner. And the Opus actually did revive some batteries that the Maha wouldn't touch. My only problem so far is not having enough slots for all these battery projects. Still way too early to see how it holds up over time, but it's doing everything it was designed to do, and doing it very well.
Phil
I actually ran my first set of Odec 2450 mAh cells in the HP-1 using battery power. Didn't pay attention to how long they lasted, but observed something interesting after I put them back in the charger on Discharge mode to make sure they were fully drained. At 200 mA draw they were getting close to 0.9 V where the charger stops draining, but I forgot to do a resistance test on the Powerex batteries, so I interrupted that briefly and came back to discharging at the default of 500 mA. The voltage started going down and then started rising! It actually did that for quite a while. Oh, I've seen that plenty of times on batteries begging for a vigorous workout. The Odecs should be fine in these medium to low drain scanner devices, but will need to run hard on the treadmill (Opus) every once and awhile. They were designed to run hard, and scanners don't run them hard enough.
The Opus is performing well and indicating good consistent values. Battery voltages are higher and capacities vastly improved. That known set I first tested looked unimpressive on the Maha with some capacity reading as low as 2300 mAh, but they all read up to (or over) spec on the Opus. That could equate to an hour more run time on the scanner. And the Opus actually did revive some batteries that the Maha wouldn't touch. My only problem so far is not having enough slots for all these battery projects. Still way too early to see how it holds up over time, but it's doing everything it was designed to do, and doing it very well.
Phil
you need a SECOND opus. i have not used my maha much yet as all my batteries are charged. need burn some up this weekend so i can recharge them. been using my base scanners mostly. maybe i should discharge some charged ones. lol.
ok, i charged my 2nd set of batteries in the maha last night. after the 436 shut down for low batt, i placed each in the maha and did a discharge. took about 5 mins each. these are new batteries, may have only been used one other time, charged them fully 1st right out of the box. so, they are new, if that matters.
charged them at 500. i see what you mean about the results, here they are for the slots using eneloop pros:
1. 2498, 1.46v, 323mins
2. 2523, 1.46v, 339mins
3. 2492, 1.47v, 334mins.
so, they charged in 5.5 hours roughly and they prob trickled for 2 hours roughly before i removed them when i woke up.
what do you think? volts could be higher, right? my bc700 woould get to 1.52 or so, dont remember the mah. let me know what you think of these #s. like i said, i can send this back to amazon and get an opus if i want to.
scott
Phil, i see diff models on amazon, c3100, c3200. is there and difference and do i therefore need the c3400 (comes with a car charger also). i may order this one today. i have prime so i get it in two days. lol. but the 3400 is $59 and those other models are cheaper. let me know. scott
SOFA_KING
Member
Not bad numbers, Scott. My fourth run on my first set of Odecs on the Opus 3400 were pretty close.
2645 mAh @ 1.45 V
2695 mAh @ 1.46 V
2631 mAh @ 1.45 V
2615 mAh @ 1.45 V
I believe I used the 500 mA charge rate on the last one. I know I used 700 mA discharge and charge on the breakin. My second Odec set is now on its fourth charge @ 500 mA. We shall see what they look like soon. Next up I have a set of cheap Rayovac Raycharge Plus 2400 mAh batteries I purchased out of desperation before I got all these Odec batteries. Now I have many more cells than I actually need. When I go back on the road for work, I'll start using them.
As for what to do about an Opus??? I just read and watched everything about the different models and decided to skip the 3100 due to some issues that were corrected on the 3400. YMMV. But the 3400 was worth it to me.
Phil
ok, we are getting same volts, but you larger mah. if you have some eneloop pros, we ought do a discharge sometime then recharger and compare #s. the only diff may be that my batteries are prob newer than yours as i recently received them. be interesting comparison and we would be able to eliminate rival factors with the exception being age/use of battery. i have some that have only been charged one times, if u had similar we could run the test. assuming mine gets consistently lower mah than the opus, as we see in this comparison, may be worth switching chargers. what do u think?
SOFA_KING
Member
If you are getting good numbers, and don't mind the operational inconveniences, you could stay with what you have. On the other hand, you have a brief opportunity to trade up. It's your choice. I never got the numbers I'm getting now, and just didn't like all the constantly rotating measurements and button pushes, so it was a double win for me.
I have two more sets of totally unused Odec 2450 cells I can play with. My first charge, discharge, and charge test at 700 mA yielded slightly less capacity, so the new cells do exhibit a breakin effect. Then again, are we talking apples to apples between Enloop Pro and Odec 2450 cells? It does look pretty close.
So what do you want me to test next? I can put the Rayovacs on hold. I'm up to 20XX on the fourth run of Odec set 2. I should be done soon and can post the results then.
Phil
I have two more sets of totally unused Odec 2450 cells I can play with. My first charge, discharge, and charge test at 700 mA yielded slightly less capacity, so the new cells do exhibit a breakin effect. Then again, are we talking apples to apples between Enloop Pro and Odec 2450 cells? It does look pretty close.
So what do you want me to test next? I can put the Rayovacs on hold. I'm up to 20XX on the fourth run of Odec set 2. I should be done soon and can post the results then.
Phil
i'd be interested in seeing #s for the eneloop pro 2550 (or whatever they are), bec they are what i am using. that or the green batteries that come with the unidens. i have 4 sets of those. do a discharge and a charge at 500 or 700. that way, i may replicate it and we may compare #s. i do like that you are able to turn your display light off. i dont like the button system though, seems like operates like the bc-700 and they are connected to a common bar or something, if that makes sense. the buttons on the maha seem better than the bc700, but i know we are talking about the opus. look at my #s again, are the acceptable? seem low as far as mah.
SOFA_KING
Member
The results of Odec set 2 are in. I was trying to watch the delta point, but just missed it due to a phone call. It was close, but one thing that will change is voltage after the main charge. It will be higher just after finishing. The after-charge trickle reads 36 to 40 mA, and voltage slips back a little. One other note...my WS1040 ran this set out stone cold. I had to quick dumb charge two cells for a minute to get them to take in the Opus (no different in the Maha...would have had to do the same, but maybe longer). So here are the numbers:
2736 mAh @ 1.47 V
2818 mAh @ 1.48 V
2811 mAh @ 1.48 V
2758 mAh @ 1.47 V
Not bad! About 5:45 hours at 500 mA.
Phil
2736 mAh @ 1.47 V
2818 mAh @ 1.48 V
2811 mAh @ 1.48 V
2758 mAh @ 1.47 V
Not bad! About 5:45 hours at 500 mA.
Phil
can u get these values on the eneloop pros? they are rated 2550 i think. i will be charging another set tonight.
ok, 2nd set of numbers, eneloop pros, ran down on the scanner, then did a discharge. STRANGE, 2 batteries ran down in 5 mins, the 3rd, took over 1.5 hours. does this make any sense?
charged @ 500
2505 mAh @ 1.46 V
2550 mAh @ 1.47 V
2516 mAh @ 1.48 V
i put the 1st set in the scanner last night after they were charged on the maha, and they read 4.21 volts. that is about as good as i have seen.
so, what do you think of these #s?
SOFA_KING
Member
I suspect the Odec batteries are the same as Enloop Pro batteries, and that the Opus BT-C3400 would give you more capacity. And by the way, there is no "button bar" inside the 3400 case. This is not like your 700.
The 436 has always done that on any brand of battery I put in it. I have not looked at any schematics or circuit wiring that might be more than just a series circuit, but the cutoff voltage is higher than some other scanners I own. So I also have to drain out my 436 and HP-1 batteries for some time after the scanner goes dead. The HP-1 is the worst. Short life due to a higher voltage cutoff point. You can set the 436 a bit lower in the settings menu on the scanner. I go for the minimum allowable voltage. That does extend battery life by at least another hour, if not more. My WS1040 runs them into the dirt. It makes a great discharger.
So I was watching the delta on these Rayovacs charging at 500 mA and actually caught all four cells just before and after the charge peak. Very interesting. The Opus charger starts backing off the current when the battery gets up in the 1.4X V range. By the time it gets to 1.49 V, the charger pokes the cell at 219 mA to 227 mA. Eventually the cells hit 1.5 V and the charger keeps trying to back down the current to maintain that voltage level. It keeps testing the minimum current to keep it at 1.50 V and eventually determines that's maximum charge. The time and total mA capacity is constantly being calculated up to the end. The cells never get hot, but if they were to, each slot has a thermistor under it to shutdown charge if it started into a thermal run away. So that is the method Opus uses on NiMH cells to maximize capacity.
Sorry, no Enloops here to test anymore. I sold a scanner that had a set in it a couple of years ago. They were not the Pro cells, so I let them go for higher capacity batteries. I'm liking these Odec 2450 cells a lot! My first set may not have fully broken in...looking at the second set numbers. I'm also wondering if I could get them all up to 2800 mAh or more with further breakin. ??? After the Rayovacs are done, I'll run the first set hard one or two times and recheck the numbers.
Now with all these batteries and scanners, I'm going to need a 20 independent slot charger. Maybe not a reconditioning/analysis type, but a good draining and recharging type with the same charge design as this Opus. Just slam 'em in and come back when their done type charger. Make an automatic "jump start" feature for cells that might have been a little too discharged while you're at it. For everyday charging, that is what we need. But showing the measurements of each slot would still be helpful.
Phil
The 436 has always done that on any brand of battery I put in it. I have not looked at any schematics or circuit wiring that might be more than just a series circuit, but the cutoff voltage is higher than some other scanners I own. So I also have to drain out my 436 and HP-1 batteries for some time after the scanner goes dead. The HP-1 is the worst. Short life due to a higher voltage cutoff point. You can set the 436 a bit lower in the settings menu on the scanner. I go for the minimum allowable voltage. That does extend battery life by at least another hour, if not more. My WS1040 runs them into the dirt. It makes a great discharger.
So I was watching the delta on these Rayovacs charging at 500 mA and actually caught all four cells just before and after the charge peak. Very interesting. The Opus charger starts backing off the current when the battery gets up in the 1.4X V range. By the time it gets to 1.49 V, the charger pokes the cell at 219 mA to 227 mA. Eventually the cells hit 1.5 V and the charger keeps trying to back down the current to maintain that voltage level. It keeps testing the minimum current to keep it at 1.50 V and eventually determines that's maximum charge. The time and total mA capacity is constantly being calculated up to the end. The cells never get hot, but if they were to, each slot has a thermistor under it to shutdown charge if it started into a thermal run away. So that is the method Opus uses on NiMH cells to maximize capacity.
Sorry, no Enloops here to test anymore. I sold a scanner that had a set in it a couple of years ago. They were not the Pro cells, so I let them go for higher capacity batteries. I'm liking these Odec 2450 cells a lot! My first set may not have fully broken in...looking at the second set numbers. I'm also wondering if I could get them all up to 2800 mAh or more with further breakin. ??? After the Rayovacs are done, I'll run the first set hard one or two times and recheck the numbers.
Now with all these batteries and scanners, I'm going to need a 20 independent slot charger. Maybe not a reconditioning/analysis type, but a good draining and recharging type with the same charge design as this Opus. Just slam 'em in and come back when their done type charger. Make an automatic "jump start" feature for cells that might have been a little too discharged while you're at it. For everyday charging, that is what we need. But showing the measurements of each slot would still be helpful.
Phil
the lowest setting for batteries on the 436 is 3.1 volts. like i said, 2 batteries after the scanner shut down due to voltage, discharged after 5 mins, one took 1.5 hours. that makes no sense. see if this happens again. i may get the opus this week. i have amazon prime so i would get it in two days, time to try it and see which i will return. lol. good to know that the buttons are not the same cheap mechanism as the bc700. i like that charger, but no display light and the button system was no satisfactory at all. several times to make it work sometimes.
SOFA_KING
Member
I know, the 436 always does an uneven discharge on cells with one of them never being as drained as the others. I have seen that ever since I started using one. What I wonder is if they tap two of the cells to provide lower voltage to some of the circuits that might require less than the full 3.6 volts. That would explain it.
So I guess I need some sort of supplemental charging unit for mass charging sessions after a full in-field portable run. Yes, 5 Opus 3400's would be perfect, but I'm not that rich! Looking for options now. Maybe a couple of inexpensive Panasonic chargers would do the job. They were highly rated independent slot chargers that didn't cost much. I'll be looking at all options.
Phil
ran another set of the eneloop pros down. this time, they took nearly the same time to discharge after the scanner shut down. i am thinking i may send this charger back next week. i am happy with it, HOWEVER, if I can get more mah out of the Opus and there are other benefits to the charger, why not. i have amazon prime and can have the opus on weds latest if i order it tomorrow.
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