Do you not have any recourse with the main UK importer? They sold a product not fit for service and should be obliged to refund your purchase and they in turn would have to deal with AOR. I'm surprised that they are not assuming any responsibility.
AR5700D First impressions
- Thread starter dwell1650
- Start date
Do you not have any recourse with the main UK importer? They sold a product not fit for service and should be obliged to refund your purchase and they in turn would have to deal with AOR. I'm surprised that they are not assuming any responsibility.
sub101uk
Newbie
Sorry but I have no idea on the history of the DV1 I only know of the problems that Ive had since I bought the radio in January 2020 .For any one reading this topic please return to the first page that way your fully understand the outstanding problems on the AR-5700D .
To spend £4.5K on a radio then have it spend every few months being repaired is not acceptable and now that the radios warranty has expired and being told that only AOR in Japan deals with the servicing . The radio has already been ready been returned to Japan twice over firmware issues and the last firmware %05 was installed from AOR in Japan that did fix the DALL + DMR problems . The last firmware %07 was installed by the main UK importer in Feb / March of this year .
Since the radios warranty had expired the new firmware and sensitivity check came to £175 . They could not find any thing wrong with the sensitivity which I found very odd however when the radio did return the sensitivity was found to be excellent . So at the end of the week the radio is booked in to a local independent commercial PMR Workshop they should be able to check the sensitivity and write a full report . If the radio is found to be deaf then it will be returned with a copy of the report to the main importer who will forward it to AOR Japan .Its very clear that there is a intermittent problem with one of the RF stages as it effects all modes and frequencies .
Its very clear that this radio is not fit for purpose and the only way forward is to exchange the radio or get a full refund . When the radio is working its fine .
To spend £4.5K on a radio then have it spend every few months being repaired is not acceptable and now that the radios warranty has expired and being told that only AOR in Japan deals with the servicing . The radio has already been ready been returned to Japan twice over firmware issues and the last firmware %05 was installed from AOR in Japan that did fix the DALL + DMR problems . The last firmware %07 was installed by the main UK importer in Feb / March of this year .
Since the radios warranty had expired the new firmware and sensitivity check came to £175 . They could not find any thing wrong with the sensitivity which I found very odd however when the radio did return the sensitivity was found to be excellent . So at the end of the week the radio is booked in to a local independent commercial PMR Workshop they should be able to check the sensitivity and write a full report . If the radio is found to be deaf then it will be returned with a copy of the report to the main importer who will forward it to AOR Japan .Its very clear that there is a intermittent problem with one of the RF stages as it effects all modes and frequencies .
Its very clear that this radio is not fit for purpose and the only way forward is to exchange the radio or get a full refund . When the radio is working its fine .
If it was me I would want to get rid of it as soon as possible As you intimated before if you advertise it accurately it would not be likely to sell. However if AOR and the Dealer you bought it from still maintain there is nothing wrong with the 5700 that may be a good thing, in that the Dealer must offer you a fair exchange value for it?
You will lose some of your outlay. but since the 5700 seems to be going to cost you more and more in transport and 'pretended' repair fees that may be the best option, even if the Dealer only offers you a less expensive Radio in part exchange.
sub101uk
Newbie
Well once the radio has been checked on friday we should know one way or the other , If found to be deaf the radio will be returned to the importer with a copy of the report .
All I want is a working radio , As to keep returning this one like you say its going to cost me a arm and a leg if its going to require being sent back to the workshop every few months .
Exchanging the radio or a refund is the only way forward . Like I said before when the radio was returned from the last firmware update it was excellent its a pity it dont last . The 5700D is what I would call " Work in progress "
All I want is a working radio , As to keep returning this one like you say its going to cost me a arm and a leg if its going to require being sent back to the workshop every few months .
Exchanging the radio or a refund is the only way forward . Like I said before when the radio was returned from the last firmware update it was excellent its a pity it dont last . The 5700D is what I would call " Work in progress "
Has it occurred to you that showing the Importer your independent report may actually be to your detriment.
If it does, and I strongly believe it will, show the 5700 is faulty, then:-
1. I an pretty sure AOR will refuse to acknowledge the Report or its contents. To AOR the radio is not the problem, you are! Unless they feel under real pressure, from potential Court action and the ensuing publicity, they will not refund you or replace the 5700. Probably not event then. Admitting mistakes or product faults is not their way, but blaming the complainer is (and believing it).
2. The Importer / Dealer is in a different category. Your Report will furnish them with a perfect excuse NOT to take the 5700 in part exchange. They will follow precedent and tell you to take it up with Japan. The last thing the Dealer wants is your faulty 5700, but whilst AOR are maintaining the 5700 is OK (and they are supporting that) then they have no excuse for not taking it in part exchange.
The Report may well prove useful at some stage, but think carefully about when to use it.
With AOR, whether it is down to individuals, or their Culture, facts will rarely interfere with the over riding 'we can never be wrong' attitude. Of course that means 'by definition' whatever your evidence may be, it is highly likely to be dismissed.
If it does, and I strongly believe it will, show the 5700 is faulty, then:-
1. I an pretty sure AOR will refuse to acknowledge the Report or its contents. To AOR the radio is not the problem, you are! Unless they feel under real pressure, from potential Court action and the ensuing publicity, they will not refund you or replace the 5700. Probably not event then. Admitting mistakes or product faults is not their way, but blaming the complainer is (and believing it).
2. The Importer / Dealer is in a different category. Your Report will furnish them with a perfect excuse NOT to take the 5700 in part exchange. They will follow precedent and tell you to take it up with Japan. The last thing the Dealer wants is your faulty 5700, but whilst AOR are maintaining the 5700 is OK (and they are supporting that) then they have no excuse for not taking it in part exchange.
The Report may well prove useful at some stage, but think carefully about when to use it.
With AOR, whether it is down to individuals, or their Culture, facts will rarely interfere with the over riding 'we can never be wrong' attitude. Of course that means 'by definition' whatever your evidence may be, it is highly likely to be dismissed.
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sub101uk
Newbie
At the end of the day if this does goes to small clarms court I will have to prove that the radio is not fit for purpose with a independent report I dont think the main importer is going to write a report supporting my case .
But we have not got to that stage yet but should it then I have the evidence as for all the other evidence regarding the radio being returned that is very well documented in all the emails from myself to AOR and the importer .
As for no dealer wants a faulty 5700D hanging around in his shop what about me all they have done since the radio was found to be faulty was to kick the can down the road .The first signs of any problems the radio should have been exchanged and a replacement given . If we look at the time lines , Bought on the 28th of January 2020 within a short time the radio was heading back to Japan via dealer and importer .Within about a month it returned only to find DALL still did not work and now DMR was no longer decoding .So within a week yet again back to dealer + importer and AOR in Japan this time the radio was away for about 7 -8 weeks I will have to check on emails but I think it returned in July 2029 .
As for the culture I worked over in Japan and sakhalin and still have many good friends over in tokyo university so know the people over there very well . So we shall see wait and see what the outcome is .
Is it so hard to supply a radio that works and keeps working and does not have to be returned every few months lets face it we are talking about £4.500 pounds worth of radio here .
But we have not got to that stage yet but should it then I have the evidence as for all the other evidence regarding the radio being returned that is very well documented in all the emails from myself to AOR and the importer .
As for no dealer wants a faulty 5700D hanging around in his shop what about me all they have done since the radio was found to be faulty was to kick the can down the road .The first signs of any problems the radio should have been exchanged and a replacement given . If we look at the time lines , Bought on the 28th of January 2020 within a short time the radio was heading back to Japan via dealer and importer .Within about a month it returned only to find DALL still did not work and now DMR was no longer decoding .So within a week yet again back to dealer + importer and AOR in Japan this time the radio was away for about 7 -8 weeks I will have to check on emails but I think it returned in July 2029 .
As for the culture I worked over in Japan and sakhalin and still have many good friends over in tokyo university so know the people over there very well . So we shall see wait and see what the outcome is .
Is it so hard to supply a radio that works and keeps working and does not have to be returned every few months lets face it we are talking about £4.500 pounds worth of radio here .
MStep
Member
Out of left field: Depending on your age and what you have contributed in terms of work and or volunteer experience to your community and country, your might find a local or national reporter television who is sympathetic to your case and willing to follow up with you and AOR. Here in the USA, these consumer-interest tidbits make for excellent human-interest stories and garner a lot of viewers, many of whom side with the consumer and start letter writing and telephone campaigns to the company in question.
Contacting just one or two others who had/have similar problems in the U.K. to join in your campaign could be very helpful. And I don't know when or how you paid for your unit, but your credit company might still be able to intervene on your behalf.
Your friends at Tokyo University may also be able to join in your cause. They might be able to garner the support of Japanese consumer groups to also help intervene in your cause.
Contacting just one or two others who had/have similar problems in the U.K. to join in your campaign could be very helpful. And I don't know when or how you paid for your unit, but your credit company might still be able to intervene on your behalf.
Your friends at Tokyo University may also be able to join in your cause. They might be able to garner the support of Japanese consumer groups to also help intervene in your cause.
sub101uk
Newbie
Well we shall wait and see what the local independent PMR communications shop has to say other wise we are are just going round in circles .I only know when the radio returned after the last firmware upgrade it worked excellent .
I even took pictures after new %07 firmware was installed the signal was excellent . Just look on the scope how much the signal level is now compare the signal level on meter and scope . DMR signals that were 5/8 have dropped to a level that you can no longer decode them .
Oh yes all my mates over Tokyo University yes its pity I pop over there and see them all but due to coronavirus there is a total ban on letting people in at the moment . But had many a good year working over in Japan and Sakhalin crew changing out of Tokyo or Yokohama .
As for the 5700D I am very surprised they sold these radios with without given them a good soak test as for the past many years all radio gear I have bought has been excellent quality , Lets face it quality control in Japan is first class so I dont know what happen here anyway still not heard from any other owners of 5700D to see how there getting on with theres .
I even took pictures after new %07 firmware was installed the signal was excellent . Just look on the scope how much the signal level is now compare the signal level on meter and scope . DMR signals that were 5/8 have dropped to a level that you can no longer decode them .
Oh yes all my mates over Tokyo University yes its pity I pop over there and see them all but due to coronavirus there is a total ban on letting people in at the moment . But had many a good year working over in Japan and Sakhalin crew changing out of Tokyo or Yokohama .
As for the 5700D I am very surprised they sold these radios with without given them a good soak test as for the past many years all radio gear I have bought has been excellent quality , Lets face it quality control in Japan is first class so I dont know what happen here anyway still not heard from any other owners of 5700D to see how there getting on with theres .
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palmerjrusa
Member
There's precedent for this.
This is/was AOR's high-end receiver, the AR-Alpha B:
AOR AR-Alpha Review Problems & Faults #4
This receiver retailed for around $15,000.00!!
Severe intermodulation issues that a receiver at this price point should be able to handle without breaking a sweat.
How did it end with AOR on this product? Recall?
palmerjrusa
Member
I know it was brought to AOR's attention:
crickets chirping...
The interfering signals weren't even that strong!
palmerjrusa
Member
I think there was supposed to be a follow-up iteration of the AR-Alpha B, sure I saw one demonstrated on a YouTube video from a ham convention...don't think it ever appeared.
sub101uk
Newbie
I should be able to tell you what the outcome of the independent workshop report has to say by the end of the week .Since its clear many of the replys are coming from the states , Maybe you can tell me if you send your 5700D back to Japan for repairs or is there a workshop in the states that deals with them .
palmerjrusa
Member
AOR USA recently moved location here, but they closed down their repair facility.
Which has me a little nervous and fingers crossed.
I've not read anything, but have a feeling they're not in good financial state.
sub101uk
Newbie
Sounds like the same as the UK but the importer did tell me the other day that all tec problems regarding the 5700D were all going to japan . Not sure if thats the same for the DV1 or DV10 maybe Marlbrook knows as I hate to think how many DV1 there are out there .
MStep
Member
My DV1 had to go back to Japan about six months ago. It seems that EVERYTHING is going back to Japan after AOR pulled most if not all of their repair technicians from their remote distribution/repair centers (which are still operational for distribution only, but NOT repair). You will notice that several U.S. dealers are no longer handling the AOR product line, and I understand from informed sources that this was due in part to the closure of these more convenient repair facilities.
In an email from AOR Headquarters to me, when I raised the issue of the cost and inconvenience of returning products to Japan, their exact words were, "The main reason is getting the limited office man power."
The speculation that they are in dire financial straits and their engineering staff, amongst other employees, were decimated by Covid is out there, but the exact reasons have never been confirmed.
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palmerjrusa
Member
MStep
Member
There was no fault in the radio (that time). I tripped over the external speaker cable and ripped the internal jack off it's housing. If I recall correctly, a $10 part, $90 for time/labor and about $150 transport-- that's both back and forth, not each way, thank goodness. And about 35 days total time. If I had the steadier hands from years past, probably could have done my own repair.
About a year prior, when the radio was still under warranty, the tuning dial become erratic, with digits jumping all over the place as I tuned. At that time, California was still operating as a repair facility. About $50 going out from here in New York City, and of course, free warranty repair. I cannot recall if I had to pay for return shipping to me that time. That one was 10 days for the round trip.
Regarding the cost of shipping, I usually use UPS because the have a shipping store about 3 blocks away. The main part of my shipping cost going out was insurance. I think UPS gives you the first $100 of insurance, but when you tell them the item is worth 1,300 or 1,400 USD, the cost goes up quite a bit with the insurance added.
palmerjrusa
Member
HRO has the ARDV1 listed for $1,219.95.00 (but not in stock), I assume they just get AOR USA to drop ship one.
Has your unit behaved itself since then?
I still have my AR8600 from years back, just can't part with gear😁, which creates problems since AOR doesn't even service that model now.
MStep
Member
I don't think dealers in the U.S. has ever stocked them. These companies used to be "order takers", who would process your order and then it would be dropped shipped to you from California. I would bet that if you called HRO and asked when they would be in stock, you would get some cagey answer. AOR might still drop ship from the West Coast, but I have been told by "informed" sources that the American dealers do not even want to take orders for them at all since there is no easy process to get them repaired, especially under warranty.
They are afraid of taking a credit card order, the unit being sent out defective (or going defective during the credit card billing cycle), and the consumer being told it has to go back to Japan, at his expense.
You know what a "charge-back" is, I'm sure. It seems that since the repair facility in California is no longer operational, American dealers just don't want those headaches.
My AOR DV1 has been behaving, but I might have just jinxed myself by making that statement. And the accident I had when I tripped over the external speaker cable led me to buy the Uniden SDS200 as a replacement toy. I use the 200 now much more often that the DV-1.
