Getting Talkgroups Via Public Records Request

[CanesFan95]

The law in question is Florida Statute Chapter 119. Take a read through it and see if you can find anything exempting radio system data from public disclosure. My only concern though, is that will this make agencies want to encrypt? Be glad for whatever you can listen to now. They don't all pull a Pasco County on us, but I always worry if someone doing a public records request makes 'em wanna go ENC.

 

[PVPD730]

The law in question is Florida Statute Chapter 119. Take a read through it and see if you can find anything exempting radio system data from public disclosure. My only concern though, is that will this make agencies want to encrypt? Be glad for whatever you can listen to now. They don't all pull a Pasco County on us, but I always worry if someone doing a public records request makes 'em wanna go ENC.

I've seen it happen before on a few systems. Someone files a public records request, successfully obtains a complete listing of talkgroups, and they later restructure or create new talkgroups with full encryption (subsequent public records requests were stonewalled).

 

[ElroyJetson]

Don't ask, all the data is already in this site's database already. It may not be up-to-the-moment accurate, but generally public safety radio systems don't change their talkgroup allocations more than absolutely necessary as every change requires reprogramming every affected radio.
Don't ask, because too much interest is a driving factor in some paranoid system administrator deciding it's time to flip the Encryption Switch.,

Don't ask, because you attract attention to yourself. Don't be the nail that sticks up . Don't get the highest heat score in the area.

You said you have an APX900 and that means that you are going to have to do the tricks that must be done in order to use your radio to listen safely, the NAS method. Screw it up and your radio will become known to the system administrator and if he's not very tolerant of such shenanigans, your radio will be monitored, traced, or inhibited. This can lead to legal trouble for you.

You have been warned.

 

[junior71]

Don't ask, all the data is already in this site's database already. It may not be up-to-the-moment accurate, but generally public safety radio systems don't change their talkgroup allocations more than absolutely necessary as every change requires reprogramming every affected radio.
Don't ask, because too much interest is a driving factor in some paranoid system administrator deciding it's time to flip the Encryption Switch.,

Don't ask, because you attract attention to yourself. Don't be the nail that sticks up . Don't get the highest heat score in the area.

You said you have an APX900 and that means that you are going to have to do the tricks that must be done in order to use your radio to listen safely, the NAS method. Screw it up and your radio will become known to the system administrator and if he's not very tolerant of such shenanigans, your radio will be monitored, traced, or inhibited. This can lead to legal trouble for you.

You have been warned.

TX Inhibit is your friend. I agree, best to know what you’re doing when it comes to NAS. I’m sure the OP paid to have his radio done the right way.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Done CORRECTLY, TX inhibit isn't even a factor. NAS done right only causes the radio to listen to a trunked system via a trunked scan list while parked on a conventional channel. That channel having the mode slaved scan list with trunked entries.

 

[junior71]

Done CORRECTLY, TX inhibit isn't even a factor. NAS done right only causes the radio to listen to a trunked system via a trunked scan list while parked on a conventional channel. That channel having the mode slaved scan list with trunked entries.

Correct but TX inhibit sends no data to the tower when turned on. It’s a great extra precaution. So there would be no way to trace the the radio.

 

[batdude]

I think that OP has enough information for the question that was asked. Thread closed.

 

[swfluncensored]

Hi all,

I recently made a thread a few months back titled "Getting Talkgroups Via Public Records Request".

I have put in several requests, and every single time I was hit by the following message:

"The records you have requested are exempt from disclosure under Florida Statue 119.071(3)(d)-(e)"

From what I am reading under this statue, I don't see much specifically stating that talkgroups are "exempt" from disclosure. This also seems like a scripted response, as I only requested talkgroups, yet the exemption under 119.071(3)(e) continues to be cited (even though it does not apply to my request).

This statue seems to have been amended (or whatever they call it) in 2020, yet several requests have been made to the county and were granted far after the statue was put into effect.

Is my request truly exempt from public disclosure? Or is this some cheap attempt to get me to "go away"? Also, if in my request I asked for a basis of denial letter (if request was denied), do they have to provide that if the request is invalid per exemptions?

 

[tampabaynews]

Is my request truly exempt from public disclosure? Or is this some cheap attempt to get me to "go away"? Also, if in my request I asked for a basis of denial letter (if request was denied), do they have to provide that if the request is invalid per exemptions?

They did provide a reason, hence the referenced statute.

There's a poorly thought out exemption relating to communications design and infrastructure. What's hilarious, is that the exemption includes location of communication tower sites. Like the FCC database doesn't exist...

As you were warned, they aren't going to make it easy for the little fish. Most people won't go to court.

 

[plusEric26]

I'm familiar with Ohio laws, but looking over Florida laws they seem to have some things in common.

I file lots of public records requests and have gotten plenty of flatly insane reasons for denial that don't even make sense on the face of it.

Like Ohio, in Florida you can file a writ of Mandamus with a court (I'm not sure what court in FL) and let the court decide. Also there appears to be a process for mediation with the state that you can do.

But as stated directly above me, they know most people are going to go away if they deny, so they'll happily push the boundaries at times. In Ohio at least, I think its a lot of generally poorly trained public employees who give me denials. Its not as if actual lawyers see the requests unless the issues is pushed back on.

All that said, no one has ever done a background check on me, as far as I'm aware. No one has ever told me to F-Off either. I don't ever give my full name anyhow, and they don't ask. You have the same right to not provide a name or reason for the request in Florida as well.

 

[trooper890]

Is my request truly exempt from public disclosure? Or is this some cheap attempt to get me to "go away"? Also, if in my request I asked for a basis of denial letter (if request was denied), do they have to provide that if the request is invalid per exemptions?

It is truly exempt, the statute was revised as you noted, and it's no longer subject to release. Monitor the system and develop your own list. That's always been a big part of the fun anyway.

 

[MTS2000des]

Yep, no way detailed system information that could potentially be utilized to aid one in authorized access or programming would ever be released. That would be my response.
Find them on your own as mentioned.

 

[MTS2000des]

Is my request truly exempt from public disclosure? Or is this some cheap attempt to get me to "go away"? Also, if in my request I asked for a basis of denial letter (if request was denied), do they have to provide that if the request is invalid per exemptions?

No, those of us who maintain these systems for a living would NEVER release ANYTHING that could potentially aid another in illicit programming of subscribers or network access. That would be the response you would get from most agencies as to why not. Nothing to do with making you go away. It's about protecting the integrity of the system.

We all know any modern scanner or SDR can harvest more system data than you'd want- so that's the route one should go.

 

[RF-Burns]

I successfully did a public records request with Highlands County in Central Florida for their talkgroups a few years ago. My parents had just moved to Sebring and Highlands County merged into the Polk County System. I sent a FOIA request and about a week later the talkgroup list was sent to me by the emergency management director. I then updated the RR Database with all the new talkgroups.

To my knowledge nothing has changed as all talkgroups are still active.

 

[junior71]

I successfully did a public records request with Highlands County in Central Florida for their talkgroups a few years ago. My parents had just moved to Sebring and Highlands County merged into the Polk County System. I sent a FOIA request and about a week later the talkgroup list was sent to me by the emergency management director. I then updated the RR Database with all the new talkgroups.

To my knowledge nothing has changed as all talkgroups are still active.

That is because of Grady Judd he believes in transparency and he has stated.