"Grave disservice"

[mmckenna]

Hypocrisy so thick you can cut it with a Saber:

"Circumventing the state’s own procurement process and attempting to interrupt a competitive bid through proviso would do a grave disservice to the first responders who rely on mission-critical radio communications to save lives and protect our communities each and every day."​

Motorola Solutions: No-bid award to L3Harris for Florida P25 system a ‘grave disservice’ to first responders

Motorola Solutions: No-bid award to L3Harris for Florida P25 system a ‘grave disservice’ to first responders

urgentcomm.com

Really Motorola? Do you really want to go there?

 

[kb4mdz]

Nope, not gonna go there. No, I'm not

 

[CanesFan95]

I don't understand. What is the hypocrisy?

 

[KevinC]

Before this happens (and I know it will), let's not turn this in to a Motorola bashing thread or a Florida must be dishonest thread or a Harris must have lined someone's pockets thread.

Doesn't leave much left to talk about does it?

 

[W8KIC]

Before this happens (and I know it will), let's not turn this in to a Motorola bashing thread or a Florida must be dishonest thread or a Harris must have lined someone's pockets thread.

Doesn't leave much left to talk about does it?

No-bid contracts smack of a "good ol boys"network that should've gone the way of the dragon but sadly, they remain a part of the legislative process that refuses to meet a timely demise!

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I'm actually very curious about the engineering of the system as this will be one of Harris' first large area P25 networks (more than a handful of counties). From what I've seen in Texas when they start building wide-area they change RFSS at each wide-area site. I've been told this is due to a limitation in the Vida core but it artificially limits the size a Harris system can expand to (255 "sites" to be precise and that will also include consoles from what I've gathered). Motorola's Astro 25 core on the other hand does scale much higher (up to 7 zones of 150 sites each or something like that on the M3 core).

I am curious to see the outcome though.

 

[nd5y]

From what I've seen in Texas when they start building wide-area they change RFSS at each wide-area site. I've been told this is due to a limitation in the Vida core but it artificially limits the size a Harris system can expand to (255 "sites" to be precise and that will also include consoles from what I've gathered)

They used multiple system IDs on this one American Electric Power P25 Trunking System, various, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

 

[kayn1n32008]

I'm actually very curious about the engineering of the system as this will be one of Harris' first large area P25 networks (more than a handful of counties). From what I've seen in Texas when they start building wide-area they change RFSS at each wide-area site. I've been told this is due to a limitation in the Vida core but it artificially limits the size a Harris system can expand to (255 "sites" to be precise and that will also include consoles from what I've gathered). Motorola's Astro 25 core on the other hand does scale much higher (up to 7 zones of 150 sites each or something like that on the M3 core).

I am curious to see the outcome though.

Huh???

AFRRCS in Alberta is somewhere around 350 radio sites. This is the highest site count P25 system in North America. It also covers more sq km than any other P25 trunk system. It's a mix of VHF and 700MHz, majority of sites are 700MHz.

PPSTN in Saskatchewan is also a huge system. Larger than most systems in the US. It has at least 230 radio sites. This system is almost all VHF, except for a single 800MHz site. This system has been operational for quite a while now.

Both Alberta and Saskatchewan are each larger(sq km) than every state, except Alaska and Texas.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't understand. What is the hypocrisy?

We have to be careful to not ruffle the feathers of the Motorola Fan-Bois.

First of all, let me say that overall, Motorola makes some good radios. They've had a few duds along the way, but generally they are good. We should also acknowledge that there are other companies that make very good radios.

We should also point out that some segment of Motorola sales is sleazy a.f. To be fair, one of the large Harris dealers pull some pretty shady $*(†, too.

But overall, Motorola is pretty well known for helping large agencies write RFP's that pretty much guarantee that Mother M is the only one who will ever qualify. Right down to silly stuff like exactly how many millimeters the volume and channel select knobs have to be.

The hypocrisy is when Motorola tries to shame a state for making any decision that doesn't directly line the pockets of Motorola share holders. The claim that the safety of the public is at risk is pretty much a grab at the general public that wouldn't know a Motorola radio from a Kenwood radio from a Harris radio. It's sleazy marketing at it's finest. Or, a spoiled brat temper tantrum, if you will. Motorola is butt hurt because they played games with the contract and the state called their bluff.

 

[KevinC]

To be fair, one of the large Harris dealers pull some pretty shady $*(†, too.

And no Dailey-Wells bashing either.

 

[clbsquared]

It would appear that Florida / Harris is just returning the favor from Virginia / Motorola. But Virginia doesn’t have the balls to call Motorola out like Florida does. I guess that’s why Florida is red and Virginia is blue.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Huh???

AFRRCS in Alberta is somewhere around 350 radio sites. This is the highest site count P25 system in North America. It also covers more sq km than any other P25 trunk system. It's a mix of VHF and 700MHz, majority of sites are 700MHz.

PPSTN in Saskatchewan is also a huge system. Larger than most systems in the US. It has at least 230 radio sites. This system is almost all VHF, except for a single 800MHz site. This system has been operational for quite a while now.

Both Alberta and Saskatchewan are each larger(sq km) than every state, except Alaska and Texas.

I was unaware that AFRRCS was a Harris system but again, look at how its designed. Two unique system IDs (it's actually two systems with a common WACN) and no single system has more than 255 sites. Same goes PPSTN. Completely different design mentality compared to an Astro 25 system. As I stated, still be interesting to see how the design is built out. I have in the past spent many hours talking differences between Vida and Astro 25 with system operators at various trade shows. Harris rarely wins large bids with more than 10 different wide-area sites in my part of the world though so I don't get exposed to it as much, mainly three to eight site simulcast cells.

 

[OpenCarrier]

Hypocrisy so thick you can cut it with a Saber:

"Circumventing the state’s own procurement process and attempting to interrupt a competitive bid through proviso would do a grave disservice to the first responders who rely on mission-critical radio communications to save lives and protect our communities each and every day."​

Motorola Solutions: No-bid award to L3Harris for Florida P25 system a ‘grave disservice’ to first responders

Motorola Solutions: No-bid award to L3Harris for Florida P25 system a ‘grave disservice’ to first responders

urgentcomm.com

Really Motorola? Do you really want to go there?

Happens more often than not.....Good ole boys lol

 

[mmckenna]

And no Dailey-Wells bashing either.

They're getting bashed well enough outside of RadioReference, no need to pile on more here.

 

[WX4JCW]

If it works and Harris keeps it up not really a huge deal it’s not really like the old days with interoperability as much

 

[xmo]

A sole-source upgrade procurement of that size is a little unusual but people tend to like to avoid change and will stay with a vendor - especially if they have gotten decent products and support.

Motorola probably needs L3 to have a certain amount of business just to avoid ant-trust.

The radio company of many names made some bad decisions that resulted in Motorola's dominant position in public safety communications.

 

[mmckenna]

Motorola probably needs L3 to have a certain amount of business just to avoid ant-trust.

Right, like they did with Type2 trunking and EFJohnson.
I had a Type 2 system at work. Started buying EF Johnson radios for it and were very happy with them. Much easier to work with EFJ at the time compared to Motorola. Less expensive. Had their share of issues, but so do M.

It seems to vary from place to place, but where I'm at, the amount of paperwork I have to do for a sole source purchase is just downright painful. And it should be.
The problem is, companies have figured out ways to get around that and abuse the he77 out of it.

Hypocrisy is when everyone is gaming the system, one starts pointing out that the other is cheating. It's sort of funny when you take a few steps back and look at the entire picture. It's sort of like politics, but we won't go there.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I was unaware that AFRRCS was a Harris system but again, look at how its designed. Two unique system IDs (it's actually two systems with a common WACN) and no single system has more than 255 sites. Same goes PPSTN. Completely different design mentality compared to an Astro 25 system. As I stated, still be interesting to see how the design is built out. I have in the past spent many hours talking differences between Vida and Astro 25 with system operators at various trade shows. Harris rarely wins large bids with more than 10 different wide-area sites in my part of the world though so I don't get exposed to it as much, mainly three to eight site simulcast cells.

I agree it's it's different mentality, but both these systems, regardless of having multiple system ID's are wide area. For perspective, you could fit 3.89 Florida states inside Alberta.

What these systems don't have is a large, per site channel count. Majority are 4 RF channels. It's NOT a busy system, not even a little bit.

 

[jonwienke]

It's sort of like politics, but we won't go there.

It's not "sort of like" politics, it is politics.

 

[WX4JCW]

being a Floridian honestly, it is Politics, probably why I'm snarky a lot of the time, my biggest concern is redundancy, how will the system hold up to an Andrew or Charlie, or a Michael where tower damage or destruction is a real concern, my home system held up pretty well to Charlie (109 Mph Winds at the time the center passed Orlando)