GTHA 148.005 MHz NEXEDGE 4800?

[ATCTech]

There's NEXEDGE 4800 encrypted traffic on 148.005. It doesn't appear to be a repeater as the 2 stations in regular contact are around 20dB offset in RF strength from my location. I've checked the TAFL for all of Ontario and done a 25 mile radius search to cover western NY state using the FCC search site with no success. Anybody know anything about it, or failing that, can some of you park on the frequency for a while and see where it's being received and where it isn't?

Here's a sample. Only these 2 radio IDs appearing at the moment, with radio 1 "Dispatch" being the weaker signal of the two for me.

 

[kj6psg]

148.005, within the USA, would be in military/federal spectrum and not appear in the FCC database. I also wouldn't expect either NXDN or Scramble encryption to be used by those users (they should either be clear or AES, and prefer P25 for digital voice). Since I'm not Canadian, I can't speak for Canadian spectrum use.

Illegal unlicensed use is a possibility, particularly given how close to the band edge it is and how few radio IDs are present. Do either of the stations you hear show mobile flutter?

 

[ATCTech]

There's nothing particularly special at 148.000 MHz and above in Canada. Matter of fact there's a transportation company (school bus provider in this case) radio system at 148.030 in the clear and licensed in the Canadian database that's quite nearby my location. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[ATCTech]

It must be business or perhaps school related, total radio silence at 16:30.

 

[slicerwizard]

Total radio silence after you posted your find. Go figure...

 

[ATCTech]

Naw, just bad timing....

 

[gary123]

Any idea what algo Sc is? is it the basic or enhanced encryption etc?

my leaning is a pirate.

 

[ATCTech]

If it's unlicensed it's not like they're not advertising themselves. Transmissions started at 7:00AM and are occurring almost every minute since. Not a specific pattern of time or duration, but very, very busy and all RID 1 and 111. I'm wondering if it's the input to a repeater somewhere but watching 1 MHz increments at a time going "north" from 148 MHz hasn't yielded anything obvious in the limited time I tried earlier today. For all I know this could be point to point data transmissions.

Oh, and FWIW, this isn't new. I just stumbled back onto it last week when snooping around but I've seen it before, months ago at least.

 

[kayn1n32008]

If it's unlicensed it's not like they're not advertising themselves. Transmissions started at 7:00AM and are occurring almost every minute since. Not a specific pattern of time or duration, but very, very busy and all RID 1 and 111. I'm wondering if it's the input to a repeater somewhere but watching 1 MHz increments at a time going "north" from 148 MHz hasn't yielded anything obvious in the limited time I tried earlier today. For all I know this could be point to point data transmissions.

Oh, and FWIW, this isn't new. I just stumbled back onto it last week when snooping around but I've seen it before, months ago at least.

look at 143-144MHz for a repeater output.

 

[ATCTech]

I don't know where "patch" is relative to your actual location, but here in Ontario Canada 141-144 MHz is public service trunking and very populated with activity. It would be nearly impossible to go undetected in that range. Matter of fact, 143.010 is an active output frequency on one of the provincial sites nearby.

 

[slicerwizard]

Any idea what algo Sc is? is it the basic or enhanced encryption etc?

my leaning is a pirate.

Sc is NXDN's 15 bit voice scrambling. Used by South Simcoe PD, Owen Sound PD, Saugeen Shores PD, Port Hope PD, Cobourg PD, Toronto South Detention Center, etc. and very insecure.

I also suspect that these are unlicensed operations.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I don't know where "patch" is relative to your actual location, but here in Ontario Canada 141-144 MHz is public service trunking and very populated with activity. It would be nearly impossible to go undetected in that range. Matter of fact, 143.010 is an active output frequency on one of the provincial sites nearby.

I am very aware of Fleetnet.
It’s not specifically set aside for trunking, but Fleetnet has been assigned pairs there. In BC and Alberta those repeater outputs are extensively used by conventional repeaters.

There are 2 blocks of LMR repeater pairs on VHF that book end the ham band. And three band plans that apply to fleetnet(assuming IC followed the band plan when Fleetnet was licensed.) in the 140-144 portion of the VHF spectrum

Duplex Pair E:
Base Tx: 141.0900-141.9900 paired with Base Rx: 148.9900-149.9000

Duplex Pair D:
Base Tx: 141.9900-143.0100 paired with Base Rx: 138.0000-139.0200

Duplex Pair F:
Base Tx: 143.0100-144.0000 paired with Base Rx: 148.0000-148.9900

 

[slicerwizard]

148.005 is being used by Student Transportation of Canada's Brampton dispatcher and Brampton buses. All comms on 148.005 are using CS (conventional subscriber) sync patterns. All of the school buses are using radio ID 111; the dispatcher is using RID 1. This smells like a Telequip install.

The dispatcher's traffic, and only the dispatcher's traffic is also being broadcast on SToC's simplex-licensed frequency of 168.045 and it also uses CS sync patterns, so it doesn't appear to be a typical repeater setup. This suggests that the bus radios are programmed to RX 168.045, meaning that the drivers can only hear the dispatcher and not each other, i.e. like a common taxi company configuration.

The 168.045 transmitter is located at 220 Steeles West in Brampton; it's a 21 floor apartment tower. One would likely also find a 148.005 receiver colocated there. The callsign for 168.045 is VFS841. No other frequencies tied to that callsign. As noted, nothing on TAFL for 148.005; sketchy as frig...

 

[ATCTech]

Awesome, thank you kind Sir!