Ham Radio Digital Modes: Which Will Survive The Test of Time?

[AK9R]

"What's the big deal about single side band anyway?"

During solar cycle peaks, the "phone" portions of the bands must have been very crowded. An AM signal is approximately 6 kHz wide. An SSB signal is approximately 2.8 kHz wide. Theoretically, you can squeeze more SSB signals than AM signals into the same amount of spectrum. I think hams at that time saw this as a good thing and, once SSB gear became more available, hams saw the benefit of switching from AM to SSB.

 

[mmckenna]

But what are those benefits? (I am not being sarcastic, I really want to know)

Easier integration with IP backhaul.
Easier to send GPS/biometric data.
Short data packets.
Cleaner audio.
Radio ID's.
Remote radio stun/kill (yeah, MDC-1200 will do it, but digital does it more better)
Remote radio control.

I used digital at work for years and it was fine, most of the time. On the fireground using SCBA, masks and in a high noise environment we still preferred analog.

Early vocoders had a hard time separating background noise from voice. Most of that was addressed by better vocoders. Also, the radio companies got the crap sued out of them and developed better noise suppression protocols. Analog can still work really well in those environments, but digital has not only caught up, but exceeded it now. Testing analog radios and comparing to a digital radio running a properly set up noise suppression next to a screaming pump panel will prove that.

 

[mmckenna]

I think we'll see DMR take the lead.
Even the CCR manufacturers have seen this.

Amateur radio "digital mode du jour" is getting kind of old. I haven't invested in any of the amateur radio digital modes because I don't want to buy into a single brand solution. DMR is getting widely adopted and is well proven.

As for P25, maybe some day when more used P25 radios hit the market, we'll see a surge, but I don't think it'll ever beat DMR.

 

[fasteddy64]

Easier integration with IP backhaul.
Easier to send GPS/biometric data.
Short data packets.
Cleaner audio.
Radio ID's.
Remote radio stun/kill (yeah, MDC-1200 will do it, but digital does it more better)
Remote radio control.



Early vocoders had a hard time separating background noise from voice. Most of that was addressed by better vocoders. Also, the radio companies got the crap sued out of them and developed better noise suppression protocols. Analog can still work really well in those environments, but digital has not only caught up, but exceeded it now. Testing analog radios and comparing to a digital radio running a properly set up noise suppression next to a screaming pump panel will prove that.

Well luckily those days are behind me now. I retired last year after 31 years.

Thanks for the other info. Looks like none of it fits in with my ham radio interests so I will just keep using the good old analog for as long as I can.

 

[JASII]

I am also quite certain that some hams, somewhere, said "What's the big deal about PL tones anyway?" They had been using carrier squelch for years. Why change now?

 

[hill]

I do have a Yaesu Fusion Radio, but our one local Fusion repeater is linked full time to America Link and it goes 24 hours a day with transmissions. Talking all over the country on UHF is really for me, as feel VHF/UHF are short range services.

I like using DMR, but use the our local statewide or just the local 2 talkgroups. Also use a few of the talkgroups that mainly cover just a small region of the state. I also have no real need to download the complete DMR ham radio user database into the radio. The only ids of DMR users I program into the radios are people I talk with on regular basis, since 99% of the users I will talk with on DMR.

In closing one of my favorite radios is the Connect Systems CS800 radio. It's about as close to a commercial radio, as you can get. Glad I purchased it and the dual radio would be nice, but it wasn't around when purchased this UHF radio used at a hamfest. Can get into 3 or 4 DMR repeaters in many of local area with Jessup, plus many of the local 70CM repeaters.

 

[mmckenna]

Well luckily those days are behind me now. I retired last year after 31 years.

Thanks for the other info. Looks like none of it fits in with my ham radio interests so I will just keep using the good old analog for as long as I can.

Yeah. I'm still running a VHF JT1000 and a CDM1550, no plans to upgrade, unless something free comes along. Analog works fine for me for ham use. I did talk with a guy the other day doing mountaintopping on 146.52. First real qso I've had in a year.

 

[mass-man]

I'm enuf of a contrarian that I'm trying to drum up interest in putting up a NXDN repeater...it and P25 sure sound better than OK to my ears. Not having much luck yet.

 

[natedawg1604]

I'm enuf of a contrarian that I'm trying to drum up interest in putting up a NXDN repeater...it and P25 sure sound better than OK to my ears. Not having much luck yet.

That also sounds really cool.

 

[natedawg1604]

Yeah. I'm still running a VHF JT1000 and a CDM1550, no plans to upgrade, unless something free comes along. Analog works fine for me for ham use. I did talk with a guy the other day doing mountaintopping on 146.52. First real qso I've had in a year.

Is there a lot of DMR in your area? In my state (CO) DMR is getting bigger and bigger every day, even in some rural areas.

 

[mmckenna]

Is there a lot of DMR in your area? In my state (CO) DMR is getting bigger and bigger every day, even in some rural areas.

I don't know, haven't really looked. I probably should. I know there are P25 and DMR repeaters nearby, but not many active hams.

Honestly, by the end of the work day, I really don't want to play radio. I usually use the radio when traveling, or when out riding.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm enuf of a contrarian that I'm trying to drum up interest in putting up a NXDN repeater...it and P25 sure sound better than OK to my ears. Not having much luck yet.

I run some NXDN stuff at work. Properly set up, it sounds really good.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

I hope that sooner than later, someone comes out with an open source SDR ham radio like OP-25 (maybe using a physical design similar to the newer Harris Falcon III stuff), that people could modify and improve upon themselves, and that could support 4 or 5 different protocols. That would be amazing!

I’ve been saying this for awhile, we’ll sort of. My thinking is a radio that’s multi-band and feature rich and you just choose what you want. The chassis is the same across the line, you just chose transceiver boards (vhf, 220, uhf, 700/800/900), bluetooth/wifi/gps optional then load the firmware and code plug that’s appropriate for your configuration. Ideally it would also be able to be certified for commercial/marine use with the proper lockouts via the firmware.

 

[Firekite]

I think we'll see DMR take the lead.
Even the CCR manufacturers have seen this.

To me it seems less that they’ve seen this and more that they’ve caused this.

 

[mmckenna]

I’ve been saying this for awhile, we’ll sort of. My thinking is a radio that’s multi-band and feature rich and you just choose what you want. The chassis is the same across the line, you just chose transceiver boards (vhf, 220, uhf, 700/800/900), bluetooth/wifi/gps optional then load the firmware and code plug that’s appropriate for your configuration. Ideally it would also be able to be certified for commercial/marine use with the proper lockouts via the firmware.

Pretty much describes several of the public safety grade, high tier radios on the market right now. With the exception of the interchangeable transceiver boards, as they've just built it on one RF board.
You buy the radio, purchase the functions you need.
Drawback is that they are analog/P25 only, but I expect we'll see that change in the near future.
They include bluetooth, wifi, LTE and GPS.

Price is a bit of a shocker, though.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

Pretty much describes several of the public safety grade, high tier radios on the market right now. With the exception of the interchangeable transceiver boards, as they've just built it on one RF board.
You buy the radio, purchase the functions you need.
Drawback is that they are analog/P25 only, but I expect we'll see that change in the near future.
They include bluetooth, wifi, LTE and GPS.

Price is a bit of a shocker, though.

Yeah, that’s where I got the idea. I know moto had them and I think one other company does as well in the portable radio format. Just a shame it’s so expensive, limited in system types and also features. I would pay $1000 for a public safety grade radio that can legally do commercial stuff as well as all the ham stuff as well, including APRS.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, that’s where I got the idea. I know moto had them and I think one other company does as well in the portable radio format. Just a shame it’s so expensive, limited in system types and also features. I would pay $1000 for a public safety grade radio that can legally do commercial stuff as well as all the ham stuff as well, including APRS.

Yeah, none of them are in the price range of most hobbyists. Some good products, and they'll eventually end up on the used market, but they'll still command a pretty high price.

Kenwood/EFJ is working on something, and if it's along the lines of the NX-5000, we'll maybe see something with more than just P25.

 

[fasteddy64]

When I lived in Abilene Texas, there was no real digital activities. There was Dstar for a while but it quickly faded away. It appears now the main repeater is a Fusion repeater but I am not sure how many folks are using it in Fusion vs analog modes.
Now that I am in the Biloxi Mississippi area it is the same thing, nothing digital near me except the club repeater which is Fusion but is used in analog far more. I have never lived near or even heard a DMR repeater at all.

And any type of hotspot or other internet connected device is out of the question.

 

[kb9mwr]

For me the question is not what mode will stand the test of time, its when are we going to have a general purpose software defined handheld?

Something that we can flash update to support whatever the new mode is. The idea of having a flock of handhelds for each mode of the week has no appeal to me.

 

[kb9mwr]

Kenwood/EFJ is working on something, and if it's along the lines of the NX-5000, we'll maybe see something with more than just P25.

Do you have a source or other details for this?