Help me help you

[MStep]

I would support rescaling the squelch settings. I have never needed to go higher than 3, so reconfiguring the max to the current 3 or 4 setting and scaling the intermediate settings proportionally would be a lot more useful.

There were so many other great suggestions made over the past months since Joe Bearcat started this thread in January---- this one scares me a bit. However, based on the current track record of accumulated great ideas which still have not come to fruition, I cannot imagine Uniden will ever get around to it, but I am sure it will be added to "the list".

 

[MStep]

There will be problems doing that. Squelch systems use hysteresis so that when a signal level increase it might open the squelch at 2uV, lets say that equals -90dBm, but lowering the signal strength doesn't close the squelch at 1,9uV or -91dBm. It closes the squelch at 1uV or -95dBm. It has to do that to stop the squelch from stuttering and sound like a machine gun at signal levels just at the squelch point. It has to be a difference between when the squelch opens and when it closes, a hysteresis. Having a 1,5 setting for the squelch would make it open sooner but it would never close.

Having a flag for a channel or site or department that tells it to disable the squelch, set it to 0, would be more workable. But remember that the Hold time would always be in use as it is controlled from the squelch. If you program a site and you are not within coverage it would still be on that empty frequency for the time that was set for the Hold time, a minimum of 1,5sec. As it is now it would just spend 20mS on a "dead" frequency and then begins to check other programmed frequencies in that site for a possible alternative control channel, or just go directly to the next site or system. It would also require an "end tone, code" to always be detectable on the voice channel or it would stay on the old voice channel for the TG delay time, missing the rest of the conversation that could be taking place on another trunked frequency.

The root problem with SDS scanners squelch system are that it interpretates high modulated signals, like digital data, as noise and will make it harder to open up the squelch. Switching from NFM to FM mode will somewhat reduce that problem as SDS scanners seems to be programmed with a very narrow software filter, probably to try and reduce interferences, that increases the noise level with an increased modulation level. Even using a clean unmodulated signal you cannot go more then 2KHz-3KHz off frequency until the squelch closes. A 436/536 can go 5KHz-6Khz off in frequency before that happens as it uses more "normal" filters, which also are needed if the frequency standard in the scanner drifts over time. A SDS scanner needs to be perfectly on the frequency or the squelch would have problem to open. The high temperature variations in SDS scanners might make it difficult to keep the frequency reference perfectly stable.

/Ubbe

Agree with your post Ubbe, insofar as the 436 and 536 being more "forgiving" with squelch settings. Ditto with your idea for "flags" for channels or sites, but I don't think we are going to see those options on a $600-$700 USD radio. I am getting the impression from all the posts that I have read, that at this price level and at this time, Uniden is not going to start "tinkering" with algorithms which seem to be so sensitively balanced that even the most minor of adjustments in one area could inadvertently affect so many other operations of the radio. It's just my hunch that Uniden does not have the engineering manpower right now to get involved with anything but the most simple issues. Maybe we'll see some of this implemented in the next generation of radios, but I'm kinda guessing that right now, as far as the 100 and 200 are concerned, it's pretty much a "what you see is what you get" situation. Once again, my guess is that Uniden now considers the SDS100 and SDS200 as "matured" products, and is preparing to move on with models for the future.

 

[JoeBearcat]

MY REQUEST:
Since we can't add an analog pot to adjust the squelch looser, could we please make the fixed squelch presets user adjustable in the PPS? Or at least make the 1 equiv. to 1.5 because there is no difference between 0 and 1 anyway so it is a wasted preset. I know there are hundreds of SDS100 / 200 users that are having trouble with systems locking on. After I suggest to them to set the squelch to 0, all of a sudden they can hear their system. Maybe you can also make the squelch settings be set per System or channel also, instead of radio-wide. This way I can set my P25 systems at 0, and my conventional channels to 2 so I can actually use the radio to scan more than one thing like it was meant to!
Thank You Joe!
Bob

The squelch rescaling is already on the list. While I would like user-adjustable squelch values, that would require more changes such as changes in Sentinel which would make it less likely to be approved.

 

[pro106import]

The squelch rescaling is already on the list. While I would like user-adjustable squelch values, that would require more changes such as changes in Sentinel which would make it less likely to be approved.

Great news, Thank You Joe!

 

[JoeBearcat]

Another issue to consider;

This is an example of a thread that should have easy answers, but evidently doesn't...

BCD436HP/BCD536HP: - Sentinel and NXDN Programming Help Please

I just got the NXDN upgrade for my BCD436HP. I am lost in programming it for NXDN. I want to make a favorites list for several Los Angeles NXDN sites like AAA, BNSF RR, City of Hope, Union Pacific RR, etc. I have the NXDN search info for the area. There is an import tool to import it into...

forums.radioreference.com

There should be some detailed instructions somewhere (the TWiki?) that addresses questions like these. This isn't the only 'new' mode that needs to be explained better. Before I got booted out, I seem to recall that there are some basic instructions for programming DMR and MOTOTRBO systems that was at the bottom of the DMR announcement but these instructions (at least the ones I saw) were geared for the 436, 536 (and likely for the SDS scanners, too); one needs to remember that the 325P2 and 996P2 (which also can be upgraded for these new modes) don't use the same level of DMA programming, and their instructions should reflect this. Happily one of our members put together a nice little explanation for putting a MOTOTRBO system in via Sentinel (and we've captured this). But detailed instructions that take into account the different levels of DMA programming are VERY BADLY needed for DMR. MOTOTRBO (and Hytera systems which I know is a bit of an issue itself) and the various forms of NXDN programming. Mike

The TWIKI is getting an overhaul. I was going to make this a minor overhaul, but there is a compelling reason for making it a major overhaul.

 

[ka3jjz]

Let me know if you need something from our wiki or the database; I suspect you will need examples from our database for entries for DMR, MOTOTRBO and NXDN. They didn't exist at the time the TWiki was originally written, but they do now. I have prepared examples for each.

Mike

 

[trentbob]

So here is the scenario. I monitor a P25 system that is pretty much on the edge of my receive range. However, I can hear it 100%, 100% of the time. The only caveat is the squelch setting has to be set to open ( 0 or 1 setting). If I set it to 2, the radio scans right by it and doesn't catch the control channel. I have programmed the easiest scenario for the radio also, which is hold on just the 1 system, and only having the active control channel programmed in so the radio doesn't have to search through any unnecessary frequencies.
MY REQUEST:
Since we can't add an analog pot to adjust the squelch looser, could we please make the fixed squelch presets user adjustable in the PPS? Or at least make the 1 equiv. to 1.5 because there is no difference between 0 and 1 anyway so it is a wasted preset. I know there are hundreds of SDS100 / 200 users that are having trouble with systems locking on. After I suggest to them to set the squelch to 0, all of a sudden they can hear their system. Maybe you can also make the squelch settings be set per System or channel also, instead of radio-wide. This way I can set my P25 systems at 0, and my conventional channels to 2 so I can actually use the radio to scan more than one thing like it was meant to!
Thank You Joe!
Bob

^^^This. ...I have 2 P25 Systems I can't listen to while scanning because the scanner does not stop on them with the squelch set at anything higher than 1. If I hold the system and set the squelch at 1, I can listen to them fine. A per system squelch setting would solve the issue.

This was an issue for me, a system being skipped during scanning, besides the obvious of trying wide normal, invert or wide invert on the one or hopefully not more than two sites of the system which could help to improve reception...

...I was able to solve the problem by applying a system hold time of one second in system options and that solved the problem of skipping the system during scanning and you can leave the squelch on 2 so no other object is compromised.

 

[Ubbe]

...I was able to solve the problem by applying a system hold time of one second

That's a bit strange as the default time are 1,5sec and it doesn't go below that even if you select 1sec, according to UPMan. A 2sec hold time will actually change the scanners hold time from the default 1,5sec. Hold time are only activated if the squelch detects a carrier. If no carrier are found it just skips the site in some 25mS.

It might then be some kind of bug that helped you solve your problem.

/Ubbe

 

[trentbob]

Ubbe... system hold time in system options default is 0, at least that's what the radio says oh, so you're saying it's 1.5.

Using a one or two second system hold time can also be done on the X36, it's something I learned from a post from Paul a long, long time ago.

If you want to do it you can do it right on your radio and the next time you hook up the computer just transfer the card to Sentinel or whatever you use first thing and it'll be kept permanently.

Press menu, manage favorites, pick your favorites list, preview / edit systems, pick your system, edit sys option, set hold time, Paul recommended using 2 seconds first, if that works then try one second.

Right after the SDS 100 came out and Paul had not made too many firmware updates, including the filters that were not introduced yet he recommended a system hold time of 255 seconds and it worked for me on my phase ll system to stop clipping of transmissions and skipping transmissions during scanning. After the first series of filters were introduced I applied invert to my one site called simulcast. It was a miracle. Never had the problem again.

Honestly I had put the SDS 100 in a drawer and not used it at all because with a system hold time of 255 seconds I couldn't listen to anything else but that one system, I went back to using my Rx only apx 7000.

I was quite pleased to see the introduction of filters. The second set of filters and the adjustment in housekeeping made it even better and I ended up using wide invert and did not have to use any system hold time, slightly speeding up my scanning.

 

[trentbob]

Ubbe... are you saying that a setting of 0 or 1 is actually, in reality 1.5? If that's the case then for those who are trying to stop the problem of skipping Transmissions they should start with at least a 2 second system hold time. If I am listening to a fringe system temporarily I apply a 2 second system hold time if filters don't make a difference. Only suggesting all of this for those who are having the issue of skipped or clipped transmissions. It clearly works for that issue.

 

[Ubbe]

Ubbe... are you saying that a setting of 0 or 1 is actually, in reality 1.5?

Yes. I guess that the 1 sec hold time where too short in most cases after getting complaints from users so Uniden set a minimum time of 1,5sec and that must be the reason why the 1sec setting are still in the options. I have to use a 4 or 5 sec hold time in DMR systems to get a 95% hit rate. Shorter time than that and it (436/536/SDS100) skips over too many conversations that a DMR radio and Whistler scanner always catches at a 100% rate. I don't have any trunked P25 or NXDN systems, only conventional, so cannot compare if those systems control channels are decoded any quicker.

/Ubbe

 

[trentbob]

Yes. I guess that the 1 sec hold time where too short in most cases after getting complaints from users so Uniden set a minimum time of 1,5sec and that must be the reason why the 1sec setting are still in the options. I have to use a 4 or 5 sec hold time in DMR systems to get a 95% hit rate. Shorter time than that and it (436/536/SDS100) skips over too many conversations that a DMR radio and Whistler scanner always catches at a 100% rate. I don't have any trunked P25 or NXDN systems, only conventional, so cannot compare if those systems control channels are decoded any quicker.

/Ubbe

Okay so now I can make sense of the timeline. When the radio first came out I had the clipped and missing transmissions on scanning. That's when I used the 255 second hold time just to receive my own Phase 2 system and that was unacceptable because I could not scan anything else. Invert on the first wave filters did the trick but I still maintained a 2-second system hold time. Worked good...

When wide invert came out things got better and I was able to go to one second system hold time but in reality it was 1.5 seconds. Never had any problem with the system again.

 

[ka3jjz]

Has any thought been given to bringing back the control channel data output function? This is the function on the XT and P2 scanners that allowed you to get a signal to run utilities like UniTrunker without performing a tap. I can see this would be an issue with the 436 / 536 but in theory, at least, it should be possible with the SDS scanners...Mike

 

[werinshades]

I read that and understand the concept, changed the 2 talkgroups to 0 delay. The Chicago Fire Dept uses 6 separate P25 OFT frequencies. All 6 use the same talkgroup configuration...TGID 1 for Mobiles, TGID 65535 for Dispatch. I'm sitting here watching this on two separate scanners...1 running it on Conventional P25, and the SDS 200 on OFT with 0 second delay. I've just heard a series of transmissions where the company or dispatch transmit, and the replies are being chopped from the beginning of the transmissions.

I've tried to set each frequency up in it's own system and that was very slow. I currently have each OFT in it's own site, and the talkgrouos set up once. System is held, and it scans the sites for activity.

In this scenario, scanning it conventionally is the optimum solution, unless you can suggest another method I've overlooked.

"So far" in this scenario, it would appear conventional P25 is the most efficient method since I haven't seen any suggested remedies that I already tried. I currently don't use my SDS 200 primarily to monitor this system, have stuck with my 996XT in conventional P25 mode.

 

[JoeBearcat]

Has any thought been given to bringing back the control channel data output function? This is the function on the XT and P2 scanners that allowed you to get a signal to run utilities like UniTrunker without performing a tap. I can see this would be an issue with the 436 / 536 but in theory, at least, it should be possible with the SDS scanners...Mike

Thought? Yes. What is the likelihood? Not sure.

 

[WX4JCW]

one thing I would love to see and would be useful would be in custom search mode to be able to select either DMR/NXDN/P25/ANALOG and be able to skip anything not meeting the criteria, adding to that would be maybe for say like DMR even break it down to a CON+ CAP+, etc and only stop on those, just a thought

 

[JoeBearcat]

one thing I would love to see and would be useful would be in custom search mode to be able to select either DMR/NXDN/P25/ANALOG and be able to skip anything not meeting the criteria, adding to that would be maybe for say like DMR even break it down to a CON+ CAP+, etc and only stop on those, just a thought

And when you say "select" you mean the user selects and or all on the list? (I.E. Just DMR and analog)

 

[WX4JCW]

And when you say "select" you mean the user selects and or all on the list? (I.E. Just DMR and analog)

I think we are on the same page, being able to filter certain emissions types when trying to figure a system out like I had in Indianapolis this past weekend would have been a huge help

 

[ka3jjz]

Here's another wish list item - I'm sure Sentinel blocks downloading of unmonitorable systems such as IDEN and OpenSky (if it doesn't, it should). However for those that are monitorable but not trunkable (i.e. MPT1327, LTR MultiNet) if the user tries to build a trunk system for it, issue a warning and build a conventional system instead.

This is already partially done in the freeware FreeScan which warns a user if one of these system types are attempted to be used. So it clearly can be detected before use. I don't think any of the other software packages (BuTel, ProScan) does this.

Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

It's super rare, but LTR Net systems should be converted (with a warning) to LTR Standard since they are supposedly backward compatible. Here are examples of this and the systems in the previous message

MPT-1327 Basin Electric Power Cooperative Trunking System, Bismarck, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

LTR Multinet G and D Communications (SEMO) Trunking System, Bloomfield, Missouri - Scanner Frequencies

LTR Passport RadiLink (Chicago) Trunking System, Chicago, Illinois - Scanner Frequencies

LTR Standard/Passport State Communications Trunking System, Various, Michigan - Scanner Frequencies

LTR Net: Loudoun County Public Schools Trunking System, Various, Virginia - Scanner Frequencies

Mike