Howard County P25 Update
- Thread starter jwheatley
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I'm still hearing everything on the EDACS system for Police/Fire/EMS/EMA. It sounds like non critical traffic on P25.
INDY72
Monitoring since 1982, using radios since 1991.
As far as I know all the tgs are correct as of march
Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
Thanks! I turned on the P25 system and heard traffic for the first time.
More Traffic on Howard County P25
If you have been listening, there is more traffic on the new HC P25 Phase 2 system!
HC highway, Kokomo Street Dept., Kokomo bus / transport service have been active for weeks. Lately I have heard training exercises and other traffic from Kokomo Fire, EMA, and HC Sheriff. Sounds like radios are being distributed! The public safety traffic is still primary on EDACS currently. (Yes, that system is still up.)
I think some of the talk group ID's are incorrect, but let's wait until the system is turned on and see what happens. Right now, I show HC Sheriff Dispatch as 10054 which is different than the database. Bus service shows as 10001 which is something I will want to avoid.
The database only lists two frequencies. They have not switched all repeaters over to the P25 yet, but when they do all of those frequencies listed for EDACS will move to P25. There will be 9 repeater pairs plus the data pair. The system is Phase 2 so TWO conversations can happen at the same time on a frequency pair - that's why you will need a Phase 2 scanner. I use the BCDx36 scanners. The radios are Phase 1 capable so they will also work on the State system as well.
I have heard some testing in extreme areas of the county and inside buildings. Overall, it appears coverage is MUCH better than the old EDACS ystem, but that would be expected. Yes, I have heard traffic that was not so great, but I really doubt the old radios would work in those locations also. Again, the RF part is much better due to three sites on P25 vs just one for EDACS and they all use the same frequencies and relative power from hand held radio. Public Safety people aren't radio experts and don't always hold the antenna vertical to match the polarization of the towers. I suspect some of the issues are still simple user errors like this.
If you have been listening, there is more traffic on the new HC P25 Phase 2 system!
HC highway, Kokomo Street Dept., Kokomo bus / transport service have been active for weeks. Lately I have heard training exercises and other traffic from Kokomo Fire, EMA, and HC Sheriff. Sounds like radios are being distributed! The public safety traffic is still primary on EDACS currently. (Yes, that system is still up.)
I think some of the talk group ID's are incorrect, but let's wait until the system is turned on and see what happens. Right now, I show HC Sheriff Dispatch as 10054 which is different than the database. Bus service shows as 10001 which is something I will want to avoid.
The database only lists two frequencies. They have not switched all repeaters over to the P25 yet, but when they do all of those frequencies listed for EDACS will move to P25. There will be 9 repeater pairs plus the data pair. The system is Phase 2 so TWO conversations can happen at the same time on a frequency pair - that's why you will need a Phase 2 scanner. I use the BCDx36 scanners. The radios are Phase 1 capable so they will also work on the State system as well.
I have heard some testing in extreme areas of the county and inside buildings. Overall, it appears coverage is MUCH better than the old EDACS ystem, but that would be expected. Yes, I have heard traffic that was not so great, but I really doubt the old radios would work in those locations also. Again, the RF part is much better due to three sites on P25 vs just one for EDACS and they all use the same frequencies and relative power from hand held radio. Public Safety people aren't radio experts and don't always hold the antenna vertical to match the polarization of the towers. I suspect some of the issues are still simple user errors like this.
Last edited:
dagooch0525
Member
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- 41
Info I have collected so far...
I have seen 4 frequencies used on the new P25 system:
851.2000 852.1250 852.3250 853.3250
I don’t see those used on the EDACS system any longer.
I have attached a couple of screen shots from unitrunker.
Some of the group names are my guesses.
I have seen 4 frequencies used on the new P25 system:
851.2000 852.1250 852.3250 853.3250
I don’t see those used on the EDACS system any longer.
I have attached a couple of screen shots from unitrunker.
Some of the group names are my guesses.
Attachments
INDY72
Monitoring since 1982, using radios since 1991.
They are gradually moving freqs over just like Hamilton County did when they converted from EDACS to the IDPS Motorola ASTRO-25.
The reason “some” are upset with this system is the fact that the taxpayers aren’t getting what they paid for. This new “state of the art” PHASE 2 P25 trunking system was going to set Howard County apart from everyone else. Apparently being set apart from everyone else for the last twenty years with our current EDACS system wasn’t good enough.
The problem is that it was discovered in late January, early February that our new “state of the art” PHASE 2 system wasn’t operating in PHASE 2 mode at all. After speaking with Commissioners Brad Bray and Paul Wyman, I learned that issues had been discovered with the simulcast performance while testing in PHASE 2 mode. Therefore, the new “state of the art” system had been put back in Phase 1 mode until a fix could be provided by EF Johnson. Commissioner Paul Wyman explained that J&K assured him it would be resolved by March 1, 2017 and the county must push forward with the deployment of the new “state of the art” system even though it wasn’t operating as bid.
March 8, 2017, one week after the promised fix by date, the new “state of the art” system was still operating in Phase 1 mode even as installations proceeded full steam ahead. After the commissioners were contacted by the local newspapers, the non-emergency user talk groups such as County Highway, City Transportation, etc. were placed in PHASE 2 mode. The simulcast and performance issues in PHASE 2 mode still exist and all emergency service user talk groups are operating in Phase 1 mode.
Therefore “some” are upset and continue to complain about the new “state of the art” system. Our emergency service personnel have limped along on the current EDACS system for over twenty years. This was the chance to right the wrong and so far, the chance has been blown. The fact that volunteer fire and ambulance services had to borrow large sums of money to purchase equipment they didn’t want wasn’t even mentioned.
The problem is that it was discovered in late January, early February that our new “state of the art” PHASE 2 system wasn’t operating in PHASE 2 mode at all. After speaking with Commissioners Brad Bray and Paul Wyman, I learned that issues had been discovered with the simulcast performance while testing in PHASE 2 mode. Therefore, the new “state of the art” system had been put back in Phase 1 mode until a fix could be provided by EF Johnson. Commissioner Paul Wyman explained that J&K assured him it would be resolved by March 1, 2017 and the county must push forward with the deployment of the new “state of the art” system even though it wasn’t operating as bid.
March 8, 2017, one week after the promised fix by date, the new “state of the art” system was still operating in Phase 1 mode even as installations proceeded full steam ahead. After the commissioners were contacted by the local newspapers, the non-emergency user talk groups such as County Highway, City Transportation, etc. were placed in PHASE 2 mode. The simulcast and performance issues in PHASE 2 mode still exist and all emergency service user talk groups are operating in Phase 1 mode.
Therefore “some” are upset and continue to complain about the new “state of the art” system. Our emergency service personnel have limped along on the current EDACS system for over twenty years. This was the chance to right the wrong and so far, the chance has been blown. The fact that volunteer fire and ambulance services had to borrow large sums of money to purchase equipment they didn’t want wasn’t even mentioned.
N9IIT
Member
So wonder how many Commissioners and emergency service providers are now saying under their breath "shoulda gone with SAFE-T"?
Lots of testing and training today. It seems to be coming soon.
It sounds like it's not starting well. KFD and HCSD switched back for at least a little while.
jwheatley
Member
Listening to the Broadcastify feed and boy, it sure is strange hearing them in P25 modulation! It will certainly take a little getting used to.
I am not really surprised. I spoke with a firefighter last week that said the system wasn't ready for public safety use yet, that it was being rushed. The firefighter said that he was fearful for the safety of his crew and himself. I guess only time will tell how things are going to shake out.
dagooch0525
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
- Messages
- 41
Preliminary BCDx36 file for new Howard Couonty P25 System
I am no expert at programming the Uniden BCDx36HP scanners, but I will attach the exported file that I have so far for the new system. There is still much to figure out from a scanning perspective and there is still on-going work with the new system. As I post this, the Howard County and Kokomo dispatch have moved temporarily to the State SAFE-T system to the back-up dispatch talk groups for Howard County.
In the file you will notice that I am trying to place all scrambled (encrypted) talk groups into one list called "Junk to Avoid". This list continues to grow!
I encourage feedback and any tips others have to improve what I have offered! (The information gathered and provided for scanning was purely from listening and not from "inside" information.)
I am no expert at programming the Uniden BCDx36HP scanners, but I will attach the exported file that I have so far for the new system. There is still much to figure out from a scanning perspective and there is still on-going work with the new system. As I post this, the Howard County and Kokomo dispatch have moved temporarily to the State SAFE-T system to the back-up dispatch talk groups for Howard County.
In the file you will notice that I am trying to place all scrambled (encrypted) talk groups into one list called "Junk to Avoid". This list continues to grow!
I encourage feedback and any tips others have to improve what I have offered! (The information gathered and provided for scanning was purely from listening and not from "inside" information.)
It sounds like the system is running smoother today. I appreciate the database update but some of the TGID's are still wrong. We have pulled TGID's from county radios and tested them. The most important ones I've seen are Sheriff dispatch is 10054 not 10108. EMS Dispatch is not currently encrypted. PCAT is though.
Howard County Encrypted Channels
I think the jury is still out on PCAT. I can hear traffic on PCAT (TGID 10099) on my BCD436HP but unitrunker sometimes logs it as encrypted. My county radio shows PCAT as encrypted, but I can hear the same audio on both my scanner and county radio. I suspect not all PCAT radios are programmed as encrypted or encryption is going on and off.
I think the PCAT audio across users is the best balanced. Fire is sounding much better today. Some of the dispatchers are still way louder than everyone else. I'm sure it just takes a little time to dial everything in.
Yes, HC Disp is 10054 - that's what I have in my provided list. On the first day they hopped between TG's with 10111 being one of them then eventually over to the back-up TG on the Indiana Statewide SAFE-T P25 system. EMS Dispatch is not programmed in my radio as encrypted; I agree. I am also receiving FG traffic,so it does not seem to be encrypted either.
I do need to apologize for leaving the beep turned on for the file I provided. This was a carry over when we were running EDACS and P25 at the same time. I wanted to know when P25 traffic was coming across (as if the audio wasn't noticeably different!)
I think the jury is still out on PCAT. I can hear traffic on PCAT (TGID 10099) on my BCD436HP but unitrunker sometimes logs it as encrypted. My county radio shows PCAT as encrypted, but I can hear the same audio on both my scanner and county radio. I suspect not all PCAT radios are programmed as encrypted or encryption is going on and off.
I think the PCAT audio across users is the best balanced. Fire is sounding much better today. Some of the dispatchers are still way louder than everyone else. I'm sure it just takes a little time to dial everything in.
Yes, HC Disp is 10054 - that's what I have in my provided list. On the first day they hopped between TG's with 10111 being one of them then eventually over to the back-up TG on the Indiana Statewide SAFE-T P25 system. EMS Dispatch is not programmed in my radio as encrypted; I agree. I am also receiving FG traffic,so it does not seem to be encrypted either.
I do need to apologize for leaving the beep turned on for the file I provided. This was a carry over when we were running EDACS and P25 at the same time. I wanted to know when P25 traffic was coming across (as if the audio wasn't noticeably different!)
Updated Howard County Code Plug for Uniden BCDx36HP
I have updated my code plug for the Uniden BCD 436/536HP scanners.
1. Removed those annoying beeps.
2. Added several encrypted TGID's to a list so they can be avoided or not.
PCAT has been encrypted sometimes and other times not. I suspect some radios may have been programmed wrong or it's being switched on/off somehow.
There are those who are much better than me at setting up the Uniden scanners, so please don't hesitate to post improvements!
Hope this helps!
I have updated my code plug for the Uniden BCD 436/536HP scanners.
1. Removed those annoying beeps.
2. Added several encrypted TGID's to a list so they can be avoided or not.
PCAT has been encrypted sometimes and other times not. I suspect some radios may have been programmed wrong or it's being switched on/off somehow.
There are those who are much better than me at setting up the Uniden scanners, so please don't hesitate to post improvements!
Hope this helps!
Updated Howard County P25 Phase II
Thanks for the help! I'm not able to open the file. I'm running on a Mac and I can't it won't recognize the file for me.
How did you get the annoying beeps to go away?
Thanks for the help! I'm not able to open the file. I'm running on a Mac and I can't it won't recognize the file for me.
How did you get the annoying beeps to go away?
Did anybody else notice that Howard County is operating in Phase 1 right now?
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