Interesting Anytone Termn-8r info

[12dbsinad]

Lots of current part 90 radios are selectable wide or narrow band, its up to the person programming the radio to make sure it complies with whatever the licensee is allowed to use. Some companies later releases of programming software now restricts everything to narrow but others do not.

prcguy

No, commercial radios are not still both wide/narrow selectable. If you have one, it's NOS. Do a google search and you will find what I have quoted here:

Existing certified dual
mode (25/12.5 kHz)
equipment must have the
25 kHz mode disabled
via software.
•
Manufacturers can no
longer certify, produce or
import equipment
capable of operating at
25 kHz efficiency.

 

[hotdjdave]

...grant to do GMRS FRS and part 90 in the same radio" he would be correct because FRS does not allow a removable antenna...

I never understood this. Why can't FRS have a removable antenna? What would it hurt? Seems like a lame restriction.

 

[happystuff]

I never understood this. Why can't FRS have a removable antenna? What would it hurt? Seems like a lame restriction.

This is only speculation, but I assume it is because it would be too easy to hook up a tall external antenna and reach out too far on an otherwise short range intentioned (FRS) frequency allocation.

 

[MTS2000des]

I never understood this. Why can't FRS have a removable antenna? What would it hurt? Seems like a lame restriction.

Because a removable antenna means some IO10T consumer would remove it and possibly come in contact with raw RF and receive an RF burn. Even 500mw will give you a nasty burn.

The restrictions are more to protect consumers from RF exposure. It's one of the reasons part 90 radios carry a label that stipulate they are restricted for occupational use due to their RF power levels.

I am sure if you review those RF exposure questions on your technician exam question pool, it will be abundantly clear why FRS radios have non-removable antennas.

 

[hotdjdave]

Because a removable antenna means some IO10T consumer would remove it and possibly come in contact with raw RF and receive an RF burn. Even 500mw will give you a nasty burn.

The restrictions are more to protect consumers from RF exposure. It's one of the reasons part 90 radios carry a label that stipulate they are restricted for occupational use due to their RF power levels.

I am sure if you review those RF exposure questions on your technician exam question pool, it will be abundantly clear why FRS radios have non-removable antennas.

It's been a while since I took my exam, but if I read it then, I would have questioned it just the same. :wink:

I don't see how it is any difference than using an amateur radio or a commercial/business radio with a removable antenna. The FMRS radios transmit using less power. Seems like a bogus reason to me, just to stymie FRS users (which is what I perceive the FCC doing to the FRS service - not that I use it, but still).

 

[hotdjdave]

Dang it, W5PKY's enormous picture is causing the page to load too large. :lol:

 

[hotdjdave]

This is only speculation, but I assume it is because it would be too easy to hook up a tall external antenna and reach out too far on an otherwise short range intentioned (FRS) frequency allocation.

I remember having a pair of some FRS radios like 15 years ago. We took them to Knott's Berry Farm (amusement park in Southern California near Disneyland) and they worked ok until one of us got on one side of the park and the other group got on the other side of the park and suddenly they didn't work so well. I was thinking at the time that if I could just get up higher (in elevation) I could reach the other party OR if I could raise the antenna! Seems a bit "Big Brother" like or "Radio Nazi" like that a person can buy a radio but can't improve its performance like other radio users in another radio class by exchanging antennas that work better. It's like FRS is the "kindergarten" of radio users when the same person using the FRS radio can go to work and use a commercial radio just the same - LAME! I will never buy another FRS radio again - waste of money.

That is why I am hoping this Anytone Tech radio endeavor is successful so radio manufactures can start making radios that can be used for multiple purpose. Blaze the trail - whoever - just blaze it.

 

[12dbsinad]

This is only speculation, but I assume it is because it would be too easy to hook up a tall external antenna and reach out too far on an otherwise short range intentioned (FRS) frequency allocation.

Ding ding ding. And we have a winner. The idea is not to have someone jack their 500mw radio into a mobile antenna, or a 10db stationmaster on their tower. Even though if you know that much to be dangerous, you would just program another radio on FRS and do said above. But that is the "intent".

 

[Project25_MASTR]

No, commercial radios are not still both wide/narrow selectable. If you have one, it's NOS. Do a google search and you will find what I have quoted here:

Existing certified dual
mode (25/12.5 kHz)
equipment must have the
25 kHz mode disabled
via software.
•
Manufacturers can no
longer certify, produce or
import equipment
capable of operating at
25 kHz efficiency.

Most can still be selected in software though. Look at gen 2 TRBO radios. They are selectable in the CPS (of course you have to have a wideband key like other CPS from Motorola) as are many other Icom and Kenwood radios.

Apex is the fun one. No wideband key needed. It'll let you program wide in the ham bands.

Sorry for the image being so large.

 

[Voyager]

Ding ding ding. And we have a winner. The idea is not to have someone jack their 500mw radio into a mobile antenna, or a 10db stationmaster on their tower. Even though if you know that much to be dangerous, you would just program another radio on FRS and do said above. But that is the "intent".

About half a winner. He forgot "too easy to connect it to an amplifier" which is the primary reason for the restriction.

 

[hotdjdave]

Ding ding ding. And we have a winner. The idea is not to have someone jack their 500mw radio into a mobile antenna, or a 10db stationmaster on their tower. Even though if you know that much to be dangerous, you would just program another radio on FRS and do said above. But that is the "intent".

Does it really matter anymore now that these Chinese radio manufacturers are making radios that have removable antennas and operate on the same frequencies as FRS for half the price of FRS radios. The same fool that would try that would just buy a Baofeng or Wouxun and do the same thing, instead of a Motorola non-removable antenna FRS radio. Anyone can go on eBay or Amazon, walk into an HRO or other electronics store and buy a radio that has a removable antenna. The rule moot at this point.

I think the point of FRS radios was to make it so that consumers who have no radio license can buy "cheap" radios and talk to their friends and family - a better alternative to CB radio. However, some in the FCC thought it necessary to restrict the ability of these radios and used "safety" as the bogus reason. Like I wrote before, "Radio Nazis." If you don't buy your license from us, then we will tell you how your radio can and cannot operate. Buy a license from us, then you can graduate from "kindergarten" radio service to GMRS, commercial, or amateur - bottom line, pay us money.

 

[Voyager]

They are selectable in the CPS (of course you have to have a wideband key like other CPS from Motorola)

And how do you get that key? You have to certify that you have read AND UNDERSTAND the Part 90 restrictions that prohibit wideband operation. That's Motorola's "out" should you abuse the key. They will "put it all on you" in a court of law.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I remember having a pair of some FRS radios like 15 years ago. We took them to Knott's Berry Farm (amusement park in Southern California near Disneyland) and they worked ok until one of us got on one side of the park and the other group got on the other side of the park and suddenly they didn't work so well. I was thinking at the time that if I could just get up higher (in elevation) I could reach the other party OR if I could raise the antenna! Seems a bit "Big Brother" like or "Radio Nazi" like that a person can buy a radio but can't improve its performance like other radio users in another radio class by exchanging antennas that work better. It's like FRS is the "kindergarten" of radio users when the same person using the FRS radio can go to work and use a commercial radio just the same - LAME! I will never buy another FRS radio again - waste of money.

That is why I am hoping this Anytone Tech radio endeavor is successful so radio manufactures can start making radios that can be used for multiple purpose. Blaze the trail - whoever - just blaze it.

Good childhood memories at Knott's Berry Farm and the Medieval Times near there.

FRS was honestly intended to be the kid brother to GMRS. It wasn't until later MURS came about.

 

[MTS2000des]

Most can still be selected in software though. Look at gen 2 TRBO radios. They are selectable in the CPS (of course you have to have a wideband key like other CPS from Motorola) as are many other Icom and Kenwood radios.

Apex is the fun one. No wideband key needed. It'll let you program wide in the ham bands.

Sorry for the image being so large.

Yes but the APX if manufactured beyond Jan 1 2013 and has the Q507 option (which is all APX radios made or shipped post 1/1/2013) will do 2.5KHz only. Yes I know the "magic warez" are out there but from the FACTORY, Motorola will force Q507 if you or anyone without a three letter acronym orders one.

Kenwood and Icom force narrowband. Icom forces narrow on pretty much all US models. Again, this is for any radio destined for US distribution.
Some Kenwood KPG allows the programming of wide band on the 144-148 sub band but not their UHF models(irritating). Yes there are ways around it but not "officially".

Back to the point, the ChiComm radios I have owned don't restrict part 90 to 2.5KHz only, at least all of the Baofengs, Wouxuns and Puxings I have owned.

Thus none of them are truly FCC part 90 compliant if manufactured, imported or sold after 1/1/2013.

 

[hotdjdave]

About half a winner. He forgot "too easy to connect it to an amplifier" which is the primary reason for the restriction.

The same person can buy a Baofeng or Wouxun for half the price and do it any way. The restriction on the FRS radio doesn't stop ANYONE, but it does restrict the person who wants to use the FRS radio by adding a better antenna for better range. The first thing a Ham tells a new Ham is to get a better antenna for better range. If your particular FRS radio doesn't get you the range you need for it to be effective, you should be able to swap the antenna to a better one.

 

[Voyager]

Does it really matter anymore now that these Chinese radio manufacturers are making radios that have removable antennas and operate on the same frequencies as FRS

And THAT is why such units don't qualify for FRS certification. Fact is ANY UHF radio can be programmed or modified to work on FRS frequencies. That doesn't make it legal. Note that none of those radios have FRS certification.

You CAN get a FRS/Part 90 cert as long as the radio can meet both rule parts (satisfy the least common denominator) which means a fixed antenna which is not prohibited under Part 90.

 

[12dbsinad]

Most can still be selected in software though. Look at gen 2 TRBO radios. They are selectable in the CPS (of course you have to have a wideband key like other CPS from Motorola) as are many other Icom and Kenwood radios.

Apex is the fun one. No wideband key needed. It'll let you program wide in the ham bands.

Sorry for the image being so large.

Even though you select wideband, the radio is forced narrow. Manufacturers wouldn't go through the trouble and expense of doing this if they didn't have to on existing products before the narrowband mandate. Don't go by a measly wideband selection in the software, check it on a service monitor and you may be shocked that it is actually narrowband regardless what you select. Like I said, look up the part 90 rules.

 

[hotdjdave]

And THAT is why such units don't qualify for FRS certification. Fact is ANY UHF radio can be programmed or modified to work on FRS frequencies. That doesn't make it legal. Note that none of those radios have FRS certification.

You CAN get a FRS/Part 90 cert as long as the radio can meet both rule parts (satisfy the least common denominator) which means a fixed antenna which is not prohibited under Part 90.

Yep, true. But the scenario someone gave is that a person would connect it to a amp or larger antenna, and somehow this would make it unsafe. That same person would just buy one of these cheaper radios and do it anyway, regardless of the rules.

Maybe it's just the "libertarianism" in me, but it seems a bit overbearing that this particular rule exists. A person should be able to remove/swap an antenna on a FRS radio. Government intrusion... I mean, ah hum, rules... is eroding our freedom of choice: which light bulb you can use, which gas can nozzle you can use, how much water you can use, etc - even though we pay for it.

The excuse(s) given is/are just absurd and moot. The rule is lame and baseless - some made up "what if." "What if the person takes apart the FRS radio, removes the antenna, and installs a BNC connector?" The list could go on and on.

Again, I hope that through this issue, a new type of radio that the "Almighty FCC" will accept, comes about.

 

[hotdjdave]

You CAN get a FRS/Part 90 cert as long as the radio can meet both rule parts (satisfy the least common denominator) which means a fixed antenna which is not prohibited under Part 90.

I say change the rule. It was and is not necessary. A person SHOULD be able to remove and change the antenna if he or she wants to. The rule is baseless and made up based on some bogus "what ifs." "What if the person turns the radio into a transmitter that blows up a bomb." "What ifs" are just excuses and anyone can conceive a negative outcome if there is motivation. There is no real danger of changing an antenna, FRS is the only radio service that has this lame restriction, as if an FRS radio user can't handle it.

 

[FrankNY]

No, commercial radios are not still both wide/narrow selectable. If you have one, it's NOS.

Indeed, as per the official FCC VHF/UHF Narrowbanding FAQs...

"After January 1, 2011, the Commission will not certify VHF/UHF equipment that has a 25 kHz mode. Providers may still sell equipment with a 25 kHz mode after that date, if it was manufactured/imported prior to January 1, 2013."

"After January 1, 2013, the Commission no longer allows manufacturing or importation of equipment that includes a 25 kHz mode."

VHF/UHF Narrowbanding FAQs

Frank.