Last of the scanners: Are police security measures and new technologies killing an American obsession?

[teverk]

I deal with 250 Fire Dept & EMS and Police depts, they have new technologies they utilize versus the 2 way radio, they have terminals they can text and send various information over, in fact I was working at a Fire Dept the other day, a structure fire was reported, automatically the screen at the fire dept came alive with Goggle Maps with graphics of the structure with Response updates from responding units. I even have one facility that uses Verizon Push To Talk on all their cell phones as primary communications. Even Chicago PD TV Series uses Cell Phones Push To Talk for 2 way communications..

 

[poltergeisty]

I wouldn't say "scanners" are dead per say. It's just that the police and perhaps your fire/EMS won't be able to be monitored. There's a wealth of other stuff that can be monitored as we all know.

It really does suck that law enforcement seems to think shutting down the whole thing makes sense on the guise of "officer safety." But truth be told, people have been monitoring state and local law enforcement communications for decades with not much of an issue relating to that ability once so ever. I think what it boils down is a smug attitude towards those that do listen. They think their communications should be private. I can see having certain channels encrypted, but dispatch? Come on.

I even see in the database that the fire department of Bismark North Dakota of all places is encrypted.

A fire department.

Bismark.

NORTH DAKOTA!

Unreal.

 

[KC9KHN]

The good old days are gone. DMR of trash haulers, factory workers, and other occupations are the future. All it takes is a few on a county council to vote encryption and say goodbye to monitoring. Even the hospitals in my county are encrypted. Some will argue that scanning is still good and has a future. Those people tend to be from counties where encryption has not taken hold. YET! Air? Trains? Some Military? It doesn't fill the void for me. A recently purchased used 436 from these classifieds has only emboldened my opinion. Great if you can satisfy your hunger with your local current scanning desires. I am jealous.

In the event of a Large Scale Disaster situation with computers, the Internet and Cell Towers down or inoperable. Say goodbye to digital communications, say goodbye to DMR, say goodbye to D-Star, say goodbye to all the digital Police modes. Say hello to analog. Keep your scanner people. Once the SHTF hits there will be so much traffic on your scanner you will have to put a less sensitive antena on it to be able to hear both sides of a particular on-going communication.

 

[KC9KHN]

Everybody can argue back and forth about why counties and cities use encryption and what's driving it and who is using or not, but the bottom line is that this hobby has gone downhill and in the past 5 years its taken a nose dive and the nose went southbound and never will return.

All forms of communication in time will all be IP based. Look at what's happening with television now. There is going to be no more cable companies and satellite companies. Everything will be pipped in via high speed internet. I do not use cable company for TV or Direc TV anymore. I use Beast TV. I get all HD 2500 channels with every channel from here to the moon and nobody is telling me I can't have this channel or you do not live in this market so you can't get this channel.

All of these public safety agencies will all be tied together via IP based internet MPLS circuits and be tied together for interops. Its just the way we are headed. Encryption has completely plagued Florida and California now and all of these states will eventually catch up and drink the Kool Aid.

ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME when the rest keep catching up. Even though these systems are using LMR and are in the clear when the system went online eventually will close security gaps and slowly lock stuff down when they get reasons to.

Look at LAS Vegas as a big prime example of what happened to a brand new Motorola P25 Phase II TDMA system what was in the clear when it went online a few years ago and now everything went encrypted. So if you think you are in the clear for good you are wrong.

I am completely against encryption and everybody on this site knows I hate but I am only 1 person and I will never get to change what is killing our hobby and it will be gone. Nobody is going to buy scanner radios to listen to DMR business and NXDN business radios. The main reason people bought scanners were for the raw real live thrill of hearing PD and Fire and Aircomm's for air craft.

And down the road people that are coming up in the world and being born are not going to buy scanner radios. It's an old novelty to us older generation when things were open and in the clear for pure thrill and enjoyment and the majority of us kept it under the radar. We did not flaunt our radios out in public like a wacker is following around the PD or the FD. Then the owner of broadcastify got this brilliant idea to stream to the world and completely kill the industry since there was personal money gain for him. Thanks We just knew it was the right thing to do and keep our hobby underground.

How can you justify buying scanner radios at 700.00 a pop to listen to DMR and NXDN apartment complexes and taxi cabs and private business. Why? No enjoyment but this is where Uniden and Whistler think they see the light at the end of the tunnel. Are we sure they do not live on Mars or Venus? The writing is plastered all over the wall people.

In the event of a Large Scale Disaster situation with computers, the Internet and Cell Towers down or inoperable. Say goodbye to digital communications, say goodbye to DMR, say goodbye to D-Star, say goodbye to all the digital Police modes. Say hello to analog. Keep your scanner people. Once the SHTF hits there will be so much traffic on your scanner you will have to put a less sensitive antena on it to be able to hear both sides of a particular on-going communication.

 

[nd5y]

In the event of a Large Scale Disaster situation with computers, the Internet and Cell Towers down or inoperable. Say goodbye to digital communications, say goodbye to DMR, say goodbye to D-Star, say goodbye to all the digital Police modes. Say hello to analog.

B.S. Digital modes are capable of operating through a local repeater with no IP connectivity.
what about analog systems that require IP or telco links? You think they will work?
Digital and analog radios can both operate on simplex or field deployable repeaters. You could even have a field deployable trunked system with a satellite connection.

 

[KC9KHN]

B.S. Digital modes are capable of operating through a local repeater with no IP connectivity.
what about analog systems that require IP or telco links? You think they will work?
Digital and analog radios can both operate on simplex or field deployable repeaters. You could even have a field deployable trunked system with a satellite connection.

B.S. Digital modes are capable of operating through a local repeater with no IP connectivity.
what about analog systems that require IP or telco links? You think they will work?

Digital and analog Repeaters will no doubt be in the same boat OUT OF POWER in a serious disaster situation. So yes I do believe analog SIMPLEX will work so no IP or Telco links will be required. Field Deployable Repeaters REALLY. And how many of those do you think are in rural counties and areas in Indiana. It;s analog and no doubt SIMPLEX or generic working Analog Repeaters. OLD SCHOOL. We had an ice storm here back about 8 years ago. Power was down for 8 days in our county and the surrounding counties. Repeaters worked until the power backup went out then it was SIMPLEX. And it worked perfectly in our community. Ald the scanners work just fine also. All except the Digital ones. But luckily the local law enforcement and EMS and Fire had the intelligence to keep their old analog radios.

 

[KC9KHN]

Digital and analog Repeaters will no doubt be in the same boat OUT OF POWER in a serious disaster situation. So yes I do believe analog SIMPLEX will work so no IP or Telco links will be required. Field Deployable Repeaters REALLY. And how many of those do you think are in rural counties and areas in Indiana. It;s analog and no doubt SIMPLEX or generic working Analog Repeaters. OLD SCHOOL. We had an ice storm here back about 8 years ago. Power was down for 8 days in our county and the surrounding counties. Repeaters worked until the power backup went out then it was SIMPLEX. And it worked perfectly in our community. Ald the scanners work just fine also. All except the Digital ones. But luckily the local law enforcement and EMS and Fire had the intelligence to keep their old analog radios.

 

[Hans13]

Ald the scanners work just fine also. All except the Digital ones.

I'm not following... Why do the digital scanners not work while the analog scanners still do?

 

[KC9KHN]

I'm not following... Why do the digital scanners not work while the analog scanners still do?

Because trunking systems are connected through online links and computers. Just as DMR systems are. We have a local Sheriff Department that utilizes Motorola Turbo which will be worthless should cell towers and microwave links and computers fail. Those things are not required with Analog.

 

[Hans13]

Thanks for the clarification.

But digital simplex and non-connected digital repeater functions still work. Your posts seemed to indicate that only digital would somehow stop working when the IP connectivity aspect of systems, digital and analog, would stop functioning. Digital itself still functions. DMR repeaters do not absolutely require internet connectivity as they can be used stand alone.

I really don't think that your blanket statements about digital are helpful. Of course, when online connectivity is down, online dependent services go down. That's no real news. Also, the digital scanners still worked; they did not stop working. Again, your statements are a bit misleading, IMHO.

Is reliance on internet connectivity a problem in a disaster? Yes, I think so. However, digital radios, repeaters, and scanners have much use even in the absence of internet.

 

[belvdr]

Thanks for the clarification.

But digital simplex and non-connected digital repeater functions still work. Your posts seemed to indicate that only digital would somehow stop working when the IP connectivity aspect of systems, digital and analog, would stop functioning. Digital itself still functions. DMR repeaters do not absolutely require internet connectivity as they can be used stand alone.

I really don't think that your blanket statements about digital are helpful. Of course, when online connectivity is down, online dependent services go down. That's no real news. Also, the digital scanners still worked; they did not stop working. Again, your statements are a bit misleading, IMHO.

Is reliance on internet connectivity a problem in a disaster? Yes, I think so. However, digital radios, repeaters, and scanners have much use even in the absence of internet.

True. I used to talk to a guy over digital simplex twice a day during our commutes. No IP connectivity is needed.

 

[poltergeisty]

What kind of a SHTF scenario are we talking about here? I'm a member of a SHTF forum, and I can tell you a great majority of SHTF scenarios pretty much means everybody whether rich or poor, or party affiliation will all become equals in the massive suffering that will ensue. And to the potter's ground we all go.

To be honest, and with what's going on now a days. I think God is like sitting there with the big red reset button and wants to press it, but says "not today" and throws back a shot of whiskey.

 

[KC9KHN]

Thanks for the clarification.

But digital simplex and non-connected digital repeater functions still work. Your posts seemed to indicate that only digital would somehow stop working when the IP connectivity aspect of systems, digital and analog, would stop functioning. Digital itself still functions. DMR repeaters do not absolutely require internet connectivity as they can be used stand alone.

I really don't think that your blanket statements about digital are helpful. Of course, when online connectivity is down, online dependent services go down. That's no real news. Also, the digital scanners still worked; they did not stop working. Again, your statements are a bit misleading, IMHO.

Is reliance on internet connectivity a problem in a disaster? Yes, I think so. However, digital radios, repeaters, and scanners have much use even in the absence of internet.

I see nothing misleading regarding my statement whatsoever. I consider Amateur Radio Operators here to realize when a digital scanner or digital transceiver will or will not operate within the digital modes versus analog mode.

 

[KC9KHN]

What kind of a SHTF scenario are we talking about here? I'm a member of a SHTF forum, and I can tell you a great majority of SHTF scenarios pretty much means everybody whether rich or poor, or party affiliation will all become equals in the massive suffering that will ensue. And to the potter's ground we all go.

To be honest, and with what's going on now a days. I think God is like sitting there with the big red reset button and wants to press it, but says "not today" and throws back a shot of whiskey.

Not really. I have solar panels and generators, bug out bags and 6 handhelds with 2 extra batteries each 1 portable transceiver ( HF.VHF.UHF ) and 2 mobile transceivers ( 1 VHF 75 Watt and 1 HF/UHF/VHF 100 Watt ). Food supplies to feed 2 people for 6 months and a portable water filtration system. A large GP Military Tent, Medical Supplies right down to Sutures ) Several GPS systems and a ATV. And everything required to survive for an extended period of time SO I do not know what you consider being prepared for a SHTF situation but I assure you I feel that I am not "equal" to most those who think they are prepared for a SHTF situation. Plus 20 years in the USMC did not hurt either.

 

[alcahuete]

I see nothing misleading regarding my statement whatsoever. I consider Amateur Radio Operators here to realize when a digital scanner or digital transceiver will or will not operate within the digital modes versus analog mode.

It's completely misleading. Digital simplex will work just like analog simplex. There is no difference. Not everything digital goes through the internet. Hop on HF any time of the day, 24/7, and you'll hear tons of digital contacts being made. None of it is going through the internet. None of it is going through links.

Of course anything that relies on the internet is not going to work if it's down and the power is down, but that is the case whether it be analog or digital.

If a repeater can't last on backup power for 8 days, then it isn't a serious repeater, plain and simple. It's likely a ham radio repeater that doesn't need to be up for an extended period of time, run by people who don't have the budget to have it up for an extended period of time.

 

[KC9KHN]

It's completely misleading. Digital simplex will work just like analog simplex. There is no difference. Not everything digital goes through the internet. Hop on HF any time of the day, 24/7, and you'll hear tons of digital contacts being made. None of it is going through the internet. None of it is going through links.

Of course anything that relies on the internet is not going to work if it's down and the power is down, but that is the case whether it be analog or digital.

If a repeater can't last on backup power for 8 days, then it isn't a serious repeater, plain and simple. It's likely a ham radio repeater that doesn't need to be up for an extended period of time, run by people who don't have the budget to have it up for an extended period of time.

Depends upon what the duty cycle of the transmit and receive of the repeater is regarding the uptime of the repeater/batteries. And once agin I disagree with being misleading.

 

[alcahuete]

Depends upon what the duty cycle of the transmit and receive of the repeater is regarding the uptime of the repeater/batteries.

Don't even care about duty cycle. Any repeater that is meant to stay up (i.e. a public safety system) is going to have the battery power/diesel generator power to stay up. It's just cost prohibitive in ham repeaters. So if you're referring to ham repeaters that couldn't last 8 days without power, that's not at all surprising.

And once agin I disagree with being misleading.

You can disagree all you like. There is absolutely no difference between digital simplex and analog simplex. None. Saying that digital won't work yet analog will is absolutely silly. I can get on any of my digital radios and talk digital simplex. I can get on any of my HF radios and talk digital simplex. No need for links, repeaters, internet, etc. You should try it!

 

[KC9KHN]

Don't even care about duty cycle. Any repeater that is meant to stay up (i.e. a public safety system) is going to have the battery power/diesel generator power to stay up. It's just cost prohibitive in ham repeaters. So if you're referring to ham repeaters that couldn't last 8 days without power, that's not at all surprising.



You can disagree all you like. There is absolutely no difference between digital simplex and analog simplex. None. Saying that digital won't work yet analog will is absolutely silly. I can get on any of my digital radios and talk digital simplex. I can get on any of my HF radios and talk digital simplex. No need for links, repeaters, internet, etc. You should try it!

Actually you should try it. Actually California is not the center of the Universe. As no doubt you are all realizing out there.

 

[alcahuete]

Actually you should try it. Actually California is not the center of the Universe. As no doubt you are all realizing out there.

I should try what? I use digital simplex every single day. Just did on two Motortrbo radios literally an hour ago. The laws of physics and properties of radio waves don't change from California to Indiana. I assure you digital simplex works fine back there too.

 

[Hans13]

@alcahuete It's pointless to keep trying to get through. It is like arguing with a post. The person is apparently convinced that something magically happens to digital signal that doesn't happen to analog signal.