The system as originally proposed before the Fire Union complained about all the radio pollution was going to have local sites at stations all over the county with small areas of coverage and frequency reuse throughout.
Los Angeles Regional Interoperable Communications System (LA-RICS) - Master Thread
The system as originally proposed before the Fire Union complained about all the radio pollution was going to have local sites at stations all over the county with small areas of coverage and frequency reuse throughout.
The fire union issue was regarding LTE only. LARICS installed numerous LTE sites at fire stations, only to have to remove them after they whined. Didn't have to do with the LMR/voice radio system.
The LASD Channel 15 and 16 channels are licensed for 1000 watts ERP. This provided system planners with the maximum flexibility in system design and operation.
The 55 pair of Channel 16 channels (482 to 488 MHz) were utilized for the existing "480" analog conventional simulcast system with GE master II repeaters and Phelps Dodge 755 Stormaster antennas. A voted receive system was used including some receive only sites to support a 5 watt portable radio operation. Based on a channels proposed operation, downtilt antennas were used.
The LA RICS system is a Motorola trunked system and may use lower powered transmitters to allow for specific coverage based on system requirements.
I think it safe to say they will not be running close to that amount of power. ISD has LASD sites at about 40 with techs telling me 100 is much harder on a transmitter. I can only imagine what kind of expenditure would be needed to run that high regularly.
If I'm wrong, please don't bite hard, I'm just an ole' dispatcher that liked to talk to the techs during down time rather than crochet and eat donuts.
A modern transmitter can run 100 watts all year long and not break a sweat. 100 watts to 10 db gain is a 1000 watt ERP, so the reality is, it's not difficult to achieve that sort of ERP.
The transmitters were 100 watts output but they went into transmitter combiners to minimize the number of antennas. In the end, 40-50 watts would be nominal to the antenna.
krazybob
Member
Systems are being built more like cellular systems where the location of transmitters is set up in such a way that they may be simulcast with minimal overlap and 100% coverage. The issue with the power level is more of penetration into buildings. The opposite is correct as well and that is handhelds being able to transmit to the outside of buildings. 484MHz does well in this area but 800 MHz does the best. There are trade-offs at both frequencies. Again, using cellular techniques multi-site trunking can be highly efficient. In so doing one does not need high-power transmitters.
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Food for thought. The original bids as I recall required the system to be capable of supporting the LASD busy tone. When McD became sheriff he was interested in moving away from the busy tone, although every time they tried on the current radio system it crashed. The new Sheriff is very bent on removing any LAPD "blue stain" left by the prior sheriff. I wonder if the busy tone requirement is still in the contract...…..
It may be for nothing if the big E is used, although with this sheriff I think there is potential in at least leaving the dispatch channels in the clear.
It may be for nothing if the big E is used, although with this sheriff I think there is potential in at least leaving the dispatch channels in the clear.
krazybob
Member
I will accept the busy tone in exchange for encryption. But I think the busy tone is ridiculous. The purpose of a repeater is so that units can hear other units in real time. 3-07/010.15 Radio Operating Procedures explains that a unit should not transmit when there is a busy tone except in an emergency.
The problem is when a dispatcher is busy he or she will often times activate the busy tone when no one's transmitting. When there is an actual emergency units often times double with one another because they can't tell another unit is transmitting.
I can tell you from experience that one develops a 6th sense when one hears another officer's radio broadcast. It's an inflection in their voice that lets you know to step it up. You don't have to wait for a dispatcher to parrot what has just been said. That's been my opinion for 47 years. I don't think this should be about Sheriff's and their perceived egos.
The comment about the "blue stain" was rather hurtful.
I have a friend that just retired as a Deputy Sergeant after putting in 29 years. An on the job injury almost killed him and he came back. He knows both Sheriff's. He has never expressed a negative word about LAPD. Cops are cops.
In his case he went rolling in to back up a CHP motor and he ended up getting taken out and it was CHP that saved his life. When there's an LODD he's the first in line after driving miles.
I have another friend that just retired as a Deputy Sergeant working the gang task force with LAPD. I've never once heard her complain about getting the stain out of her uniform from getting too close.
When a 999 goes out you roll hot until you get there and it doesn't matter what the patch on the shoulder says. Whether you believe it or not, I've been on both sides of that radio.
No Chief or Sheriff will ever publicly express disdain for another department because that encourages the rank-and-file to do the same.
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KrazyBob, I think you misunderstood my comment about "blue stain". By the way I just retired in August after 30 years with LASD. Overall deputies enjoy great relationships with other agencies around the county, state and nation. In fact right now I have a friend who is in Atlanta with her bomb dog working the Super Bowl. The blue stain comment goes towards Sheriff McD wanting to transform LASD into something it's not. The sheriff's departments are unique creatures and take pride in that. They go way beyond just being a police department and that was something McD had a hard time understanding, he may have been a great chief at LAPD and even Long Beach, but as sheriff he had a hard time understanding the green mentality.
Anyways, we're getting off tangent,sorry. KrazyBob we can discuss more if you like privately. Hell, we both live in these beautiful mountains, maybe we should have coffee some day.
In regards to radio, I would like to see LA-RICS succeed. It's not the radio system I would have chosen, but oh well I never wanted to be the boss. Sheriff Block tried to get interoperability back in the 80's with the roll out of the 480 LASD system when he introduced the mutual aid channels that he gave every agency in the county access to, but a lot of them balked at the notion. Cant' tell you how many times I went out on incidents with other agencies and when asked they had no idea, or "Our dispatch has access to that, we don't". El Monte PD was good to go back then and we worked a lot of containments together using the mutual aid channel.
In regards to radio, I would like to see LA-RICS succeed. It's not the radio system I would have chosen, but oh well I never wanted to be the boss. Sheriff Block tried to get interoperability back in the 80's with the roll out of the 480 LASD system when he introduced the mutual aid channels that he gave every agency in the county access to, but a lot of them balked at the notion. Cant' tell you how many times I went out on incidents with other agencies and when asked they had no idea, or "Our dispatch has access to that, we don't". El Monte PD was good to go back then and we worked a lot of containments together using the mutual aid channel.
krazybob
Member
Thank you for clarifying. I too am retired and wore blue. I graduated from Rio Hondo in June 1986 in the top 10 of my class. I'm proud of that. Injury took me out. I too knew what was going on but he got voted out of office as you know. I didn't make the connection. I apologize for coming across as harsh, but I did feel somewhat... well let's just leave it at that. I'm over it. I think as we all know by now printed words on a cell phone can more often than not be misunderstood.
For what it's worth LAPD seems to have fights with allied agencies. They'll advise CHP of a pursuit and then refused to back out. CHP or otherwise. But the one thing we could always count on was that when we called for backup they were there. Just as they were there for you and you for them. Do you by chance know Burt and Kim?
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scottyhetzel
Member
Jr Holmes....sounds like you worked temple. 57 or 55. Still remember March incident on peck road.
krazybob
Member
I thought the same thing. That's why I asked if he knew a couple of friends. But he could have worked Pico. We'll have to wait for his response. In the meantime we can go swimming in that cesspool they call a lake down at Legg Lake. NOT! I had more fun as a kid swimming in the San Gabriel River. It had white sandy beaches and water that we didn't even think about asking where it came from. I still remember April 29th, 2002 on Live Oak east of Peck. Pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. There's an EOW vigil there every year.
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scottyhetzel
Member
Temple And Crescenta sgt Burt. Of course... retired Burt now.
krazybob
Member
Absolutely! Sgt. Burt. Great guy. He and Kim are friends of mine. I invited them up to play in the three feet of snow that we got up here in the mountains but Burt is especially anti snow. Kim is a little bit easier going. Then of course he went back to 50 and then over to Public Relations with McD. I know of Burt and his IOD as well as March. Prayers.
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