Major disaster comms options

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

there must be millions of CB radios in basements, garages and closets. They could become the defacto party line for the masses. FRS and GMRS will be the next tier of radios.

 

[mastr]

...I remember at one point a FEMA person doing a class for other FEMA people, asked how many of them had a family communications plan, when not many people raised their hands, he asked what they were even doing there...

I hope about half the class got up and left. I was asked in a FEMA class what I would do if my fallout shelter was 1 person from capacity and a young man with his wife, son and an AR-15 asked to come in. My answer was "I would say, 'come right in, we will figure out a way to make room' ". The instructor disagreed, I got up and left. I have had little use for FEMA (Feeble Efforts Mostly Afterward) since.

 

[MUTNAV]

Sadly I think the die is cast, the genie is out of the bottle, and nuclear war is inevitable. What should we expect putin to do if hes crushed in a conventional war and "fears" for the Russian state aka his personal safety, not press the button? You're kidding yourself if you think he wouldn't. Besides, we as of this instance have lunatics/psychopaths in charge of most every nuclear armed nation, what could go wrong? In that light, tube gear, the most likely to survive emp, will be more or less useless unless you can power it as most power plants will be ruined or shut down, and using 12v batteries and an inverter to power tube gear is hugely inefficient. Settling on 12v dc devices might be best. As said cb and gmrs/frs and HAM radio will likely be the only comms available to the non billionaires who want to reset the world and re-imagine it to their liking.. Not that they'd let a crisis like nuclear war go to waste. Remember, in their brave new world you'll own nothing and be happy.

I have to disagree with the whole idea of tube electronics surviving, the ONE EMP test report I read on radio transceivers, showed the PRC-25 not being certifiable for post EMP things, and the PRC-77 (mostly the same as the prc-25, but with transistor finals amplifier vs prc-25 tube amp, (BTW disclaimer, the prc-25 was just never certified))

being Ok...

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA266412.pdf

In order for me to think otherwise, I need to see at the least a summary of an EMP test done to think otherwise. Same with older vs newer vehicles, I know there was a test done around 1998 on cars and I think about 10-15% (roughly) weren't operable afterwards. Which may not sound like a lot, but you disable even 5% of the cars on the Garden State Parkway, and they might as well ALL have been disabled.

Any updates on any EMP testing would be appreciated !!!!

Thanks
Joel

 

[MUTNAV]

I hope about half the class got up and left. I was asked in a FEMA class what I would do if my fallout shelter was 1 person from capacity and a young man with his wife, son and an AR-15 asked to come in. My answer was "I would say, 'come right in, we will figure out a way to make room' ". The instructor disagreed, I got up and left. I have had little use for FEMA (Feeble Efforts Mostly Afterward) since.

Why would you hope half of the class to leave, the instructor was asking if the people involved in emergency management were doing their part to personally prepare like they ask everyone else to do.

To me, being in FEMA and not having a family communications plan would be the equivalent of a fire inspector not having a fire extinguisher available for their own houses kitchen. It would be irresposibble especially given their position, experience, and occupation.


I get it about the excluding of people from a fallout shelter, from both sides.

On the one side you have the lifeboat captain analogy, where it is the responsibility of the captain to take on as many people as possible, BUT they also have the responsibility for the safety of the boat.

On the other side, when in high school, the priest that started covenant house came to our school to give a talk. He described what would happen to a lot of the teens that would try and escape a bad family life by going to the city (it was kind of shocking to high school students, but described the conditioning in a very matter of fact manner).

He then related that when he had just started it (which was against the law BTW), and the place where he was living was absolutely full, he had to turn away a young girl and boy seeking protection-shelter, and it decimated him, and he never found out what happened to them.

So there are two sides to the "exclude people from a fallout shelter" idea, neither of which is easy to answer truthfully in advance.

Hopefully none of us will ever be faced with that real set of choices.


Thanks
Joel

 

[db_gain]

While I don't have any further emp data, where I say tube gear will be more resilient, by that I mean tube gear that is sufficiently far enough away from the HANB/EMP to remain effective could rationally be expected to survive in working order than say the equivalent unhardened solid state gear in the same location. Mine remain unplugged from the ac socket and have no antenna attached, however I am located near something that will surely draw fire from our enemies if/when ww3 breaks out overtly, so perhaps wishful thinking on my part but wish we shall.

 

[talviar]

I'm going to throw out my $2.25 ..... First- For Major Disaster Comms options... it truly matters what the disaster is and what it has affected in terms of communications. This time a tornado may only damage stuff and leave all comms intact and not require anything other than boots on the ground for clean up, etc.... Next time the tornado might take out half the infrastructure needed to run cell phones and public safety...

There is no one template fits everything.
Now for my favorite topic... EMP..... My first question--- you kept tube gear and/or transistor gear in a Faraday cage and have stuff that actually is intact and will work.... What are you going to power it with?? Generator... ok.... how old is your generator.. unless you have one made prior to the early 80's it probably has an electronic ignition module in it. Anything made in the last 30 years will be zapped from existence same as your radio. Batteries charged up by a car.... uh... same-- how old is your car.... Electronic ignition modules and even computers for vehicle control in engines has been around for a long time. So if your vehicle is made in the last 30-40 years.... chances are it will be zapped from existence as well... Solar panels?? u say.... the panels and charging circuits and such probably poofed out of existance a little faster than the car, generator, and radios. I could go on but why bother.

Unless you plan on putting a car, generator, solar panels, radios, and other stuff in a very large faraday cage.... probably not going to be really able to do a whole with that radio equipment.. If the big one hits.... people in that area are pretty much screwed....

Again just my opinion and no warranty expressed or implied with my thoughts.

 

[MUTNAV]

I'm going to throw out my $2.25 ..... First- For Major Disaster Comms options... it truly matters what the disaster is and what it has affected in terms of communications. This time a tornado may only damage stuff and leave all comms intact and not require anything other than boots on the ground for clean up, etc.... Next time the tornado might take out half the infrastructure needed to run cell phones and public safety...

There is no one template fits everything.
Now for my favorite topic... EMP..... My first question--- you kept tube gear and/or transistor gear in a Faraday cage and have stuff that actually is intact and will work.... What are you going to power it with?? Generator... ok.... how old is your generator.. unless you have one made prior to the early 80's it probably has an electronic ignition module in it. Anything made in the last 30 years will be zapped from existence same as your radio. Batteries charged up by a car.... uh... same-- how old is your car.... Electronic ignition modules and even computers for vehicle control in engines has been around for a long time. So if your vehicle is made in the last 30-40 years.... chances are it will be zapped from existence as well... Solar panels?? u say.... the panels and charging circuits and such probably poofed out of existance a little faster than the car, generator, and radios. I could go on but why bother.

Unless you plan on putting a car, generator, solar panels, radios, and other stuff in a very large faraday cage.... probably not going to be really able to do a whole with that radio equipment.. If the big one hits.... people in that area are pretty much screwed....

Again just my opinion and no warranty expressed or implied with my thoughts.

I'd really like to see this stuff tested in an EMP simulator, everything else is just guessing.

Like electronic vs. standard ignition systems. Remembering that the "old" style ignition had a coil (usually un-shielded) that multiplied 12 volts to 15,000 volts or so, along with points.

On the other hand, not everywhere may get the same "dose" of an EMP, like what happens in areas with solid overcast.

Part of this is how we all view the world/preparedness SHTF etc...,

To take a full doom and gloom view, there's no sense in wearing a seat-belt since in a worse case situation like a head on collision with a tractor trailer, there is no surviving. On the other hand, a lot of lesser events might be survivable so it's worth taking reasonable precautions.

As I said though, we really need to see some tests from EMP simulators to get even a slight clue about what might happen.

I wonder if that could be a sales point for F-150s or other vehicles, if a car company did tests and they turned out well.


Thanks
Joel

 

[mastr]

I'd really like to see this stuff tested in an EMP simulator, everything else is just guessing...I wonder if that could be a sales point for F-150s or other vehicles, if a car company did tests and they turned out well...

Not a bad idea, but impractical given todays EPA requirements on new vehicles. The most EMP survivable vehicle would probably have a mechanically injected Diesel engine, mechanical fuel lift pump and manual transmission. The former has been practically outlawed by the EPA and the latter would mean only part of the population could drive it.

But there will be lots of old farm tractors that still work.

 

[smittie]

Has there ever been an EMP event other than tests?

 

[AB4BF]

Has there ever been an EMP event other than tests?

Kinda/Sorta. Look up "Starfish Prime". Wikipedia:

Starfish Prime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[talviar]

Has there ever been an EMP event other than tests?

some light reading is available here... The answer is yes and no...

https://www.edn.com/lightning-strike-becomes-emp-weapon/

Lightning has/is an EMP but on a very small scale. I've had tower sites receive direct hits and the equipment connected survive in the shelter but blow out a Polyphaser, melt an antenna, and toast the hardline. While also frying other equipment in the shelter because the EMP/static discharge from the lightning strike was strong enough to kill it.

So very limited testing in one type of EMP by folks in the comms industry is most likely......

 

[smittie]

Kinda/Sorta. Look up "Starfish Prime". Wikipedia:

"...other than tests."

 

[AB4BF]

"...other than tests."

Well Smittie, it very well was a test with unintended consequences.

But, if its natural you want, look up "Carrington Event", Wiki:

Carrington Event - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4mindnbody]

Part of the reason I am looking at large scale, is I remember stories of small towns affected by Katrina that were left stranded. They had no contact with the outside world, until a ham showed up. They had no idea the scope of what happened, nor why no assistance arrived.

If you haven't seen the movie, "Five Days at Memorial", you should. It demonstrates how quickly things went south during Katrina at a hospital. I believe it was on Apple TV. It's a true story about 5 days at Memorial Hospital during Katrina.

For a good book of "fiction based on reality", I really like the book (also on Audible) called "One Second After". I've never been a fiction fan but this is pretty good.

 

[Lucifer_Morningstar]

Distracted focus.

Be more worried about bio accidents / warfare (the "china virus" ring a bell ?).

Corrupt ring leader fauci (highest paid government bureacrat in history),
lying about gain of function research spiraling out of control.

At home "bio hackers" with their own basement labs.

Hiding in plain sight - "Hollywood" telegraphing it for ages:
"Andromeda Strain"
"Contagion"
"I Am Legend" / "Last Man On Earth" - Vincent Price movie
"The Omega Man" (Charlton Heston movie).
"Outbreak"

and of course: "The Walking Dead" series.

 

[smittie]

@AB4BF, my point is we're focused on the least likely event that any of us is likely to encounter.

 

[smittie]

Distracted focus.

I am more interested in focusing on preparation and practices for things we are likely to encounter, probably with some relative frequency; earthquakes, floods, fires, tornados, hurricanes, etc.

 

[AB4BF]

@AB4BF, my point is we're focused on the least likely event that any of us is likely to encounter.

Don't forget, this solar cycle will peak in 2024/2025. I live on a farm and the solar radiation will cook you in no time as compared to the 1960's when I would go without a shirt and have shorts only and barefoot. I never burned nor did I get a deep tan. Now, the temperature can be 80 degrees F and it feels like 100 to me.
Some solar scientists have speculated that we could very well have another "Carrington Event" or worse in the coming 2 years. Scientists at first thought the solar cycle 25 (current) was going to be benign, but they are since watching it very closely.

Solar cycle 25 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[smittie]

@AB4BF, you read a lot of science fiction too, don't you.

 

[AB4BF]

@AB4BF, you read a lot of science fiction too, don't you.

Not really, I'm basically a pragmatist. I'm outside a lot and can see and feel what's occurring in nature. If you are in Montana, I think I would be worried about Canadian wildfires and the smoke produced by them. Hopefully, the prevailing winds will keep you relatively smoke free.