Major disaster comms options

[smittie]

1. Short haul communications to stay in contact with local family and friends.
GMRS? Pre-established channel. PL? Pre-established community channel? Also with PL?
What are the other options here?

2. Long haul communications to reach outside the effect area to communicate situation, status, and needs.
10 meter? 11 meter? CB on SSB? SAT Phone? Garmin InReach/SPOT/ZOLEO

 

[mmckenna]

My opinion is people W-A-Y over think this stuff.

There's a lot of different disasters that can befall us. Try to be ready for any of them, but understand that it is not up to us and you might get smacked up-side the head with one that wasn't on your list. Learn to adapt.

The whole "prepper" thing kind of smells to me.
To me, it's watching a bunch of grown adults in some weird mix of panic, fear, weird hyper-consumerism and premeditated vengeance.

I'm not against being prepared (I see being prepared different than being a "prepper"). I live in earthquake country, with the occasional mix of wildland fire, flooding and other stuff thrown in. So, I get it. I have no plans to shoot my neighbors, quite the opposite, I hope I can help then out.

And, unlike some, I don't think the gubbermint is out to get me.

1. Short haul communications to stay in contact with local family and friends.
GMRS? Pre-established channel. PL? Pre-established community channel? Also with PL?
What are the other options here?

KISS method: Keep it Simple Smittie.
Basic GMRS or FRS radios. Be reasonable. Your wife/kids/whoever are not going to want to figure out what magic keypress puts the latest POS Baofeng Chinese radio into which mode. Ideal solution is a single channel radio with a combined on/off/volume switch. Most difficult thing they should have to face is finding the radio. Everything else should be operable with a pair of gloves on and blindfolded. Anything more complex than that and you've lost the game. If you want to have fancy radios, then keep it separate from the ones you plan on using every day.

2. Long haul communications to reach outside the effect area to communicate situation, status, and needs.
10 meter? 11 meter? CB on SSB? SAT Phone? Garmin InReach/SPOT/ZOLEO

Who are you going to talk to that would be considered "long haul"?
If you are talking about your immediate family, you probably should not be that far apart from each other in a disaster.
If you are talking about communicating with others, think carefully about what you actually need. I would not rely on CB'ers or even ham radio operators to help you out in an emergency unless they are next door. The only benefit I can see to ham is that you let someone know you are there and need help, probably like a few thousand other people in your area. Maybe get an "I'm OK" message to someone out of the area.
Unless you have a specific person you need to talk to in a disaster that is out of GMRS range, skip the investment in expensive HF gear.

In most disasters, you'll have options. It may not be immediate gratification, you might have to wait a bit.

 

[west-pac]

My opinion is people W-A-Y over think this stuff.

There's a lot of different disasters that can befall us. Try to be ready for any of them, but understand that it is not up to us and you might get smacked up-side the head with one that wasn't on your list. Learn to adapt.

The whole "prepper" thing kind of smells to me.
To me, it's watching a bunch of grown adults in some weird mix of panic, fear, weird hyper-consumerism and premeditated vengeance.

I'm not against being prepared (I see being prepared different than being a "prepper"). I live in earthquake country, with the occasional mix of wildland fire, flooding and other stuff thrown in. So, I get it. I have no plans to shoot my neighbors, quite the opposite, I hope I can help then out.

And, unlike some, I don't think the gubbermint is out to get me.


KISS method: Keep it Simple Smittie.
Basic GMRS or FRS radios. Be reasonable. Your wife/kids/whoever are not going to want to figure out what magic keypress puts the latest POS Baofeng Chinese radio into which mode. Ideal solution is a single channel radio with a combined on/off/volume switch. Most difficult thing they should have to face is finding the radio. Everything else should be operable with a pair of gloves on and blindfolded. Anything more complex than that and you've lost the game. If you want to have fancy radios, then keep it separate from the ones you plan on using every day.



Who are you going to talk to that would be considered "long haul"?
If you are talking about your immediate family, you probably should not be that far apart from each other in a disaster.
If you are talking about communicating with others, think carefully about what you actually need. I would not rely on CB'ers or even ham radio operators to help you out in an emergency unless they are next door. The only benefit I can see to ham is that you let someone know you are there and need help, probably like a few thousand other people in your area. Maybe get an "I'm OK" message to someone out of the area.
Unless you have a specific person you need to talk to in a disaster that is out of GMRS range, skip the investment in expensive HF gear.

In most disasters, you'll have options. It may not be immediate gratification, you might have to wait a bit.

I agree...(while counting my Civil Defense biscuits)

 

[smittie]

My implementation.

It is just me and my wife here in Montana. She has a Midland GMRS radio in her car. It is already setup. All she has to do is turn it on. We live in an area where cell coverage is spotty and the roads are sketchy due to mud, snow, ice or all three. If I have to go looking for her having her on radio is helpful. It's simple.

With regard to long haul. I have been on the receiving/action side of helping people and communities in disaster areas many times. Always being careful not to duplicate any efforts FEMA has underway (I also do not think the gubermint is out to get me) and letting FEMA know who we are and what we're doing. Assessment and coordination is always easier when the community in need has some form of reliable communication. Often that is some individual driving out to the nearest town that still have working phone service of some kind.

Not everyone in the community needs to have and maintain long haul communication but in a rather remote community such as the one I live in (nearest big box store of any kind is 2 hours away) where cell coverage is already spotty, and internet service goes out when the power goes out, having some form of long haul comms other than driving two hours to the nearest metro (relatively speaking) would be beneficial. This is probably less true in larger metro areas with greater redundancy in infrastructure.

 

[mmckenna]

having some form of long haul comms other than driving two hours to the nearest metro (relatively speaking) would be beneficial.

Garmin InReach is an excellent solution. It can be set up to send canned messages, custom messages, or when really needed, emergency messages.
No messing with HF antennas. It is small and portable. Anyone can operate it.

Any disaster big enough to take out those satellites is going to probably take out everything else, so…..

 

[smittie]

Garmin InReach is an excellent solution. It can be set up to send canned messages, custom messages, or when really needed, emergency messages.
No messing with HF antennas. It is small and portable. Anyone can operate it.

Any disaster big enough to take out those satellites is going to probably take out everything else, so…..

If and until I pick up my HAM ticket, InReach or similar is what I am looking at.

 

[belvdr]

If and until I pick up my HAM ticket, InReach or similar is what I am looking at.

I'd recommend it instead of relying on amateur radio, assuming you have someone setup to communicate with. In my area, amateur radio is iffy on a good day.

 

[mmckenna]

If and until I pick up my HAM ticket, InReach or similar is what I am looking at.

I have licenses for ham and GMRS. I also have the Garmin. I take the Garmin with me whenever I expect to be in remote areas.

After being a ham for 30+ years, as well as working in the public safety radio field, Garmin is the right tool for the job. If you need help, it'll put you in direct contact with professionals. It'll allow sending text messages or e-mail to others, regardless of what sort of license they have or don't have. It's user friendly.
Yeah, costs me a whole $11/month. Not a problem, and well worth it. No way I'm going to lug 25 pounds of HF radio gear around with me in the back country.
Ham is only going to put you in contact with other hobbyists. There is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening to the radio or to lift a finger to assist you.

 

[MUTNAV]

Not a bad idea, but impractical given todays EPA requirements on new vehicles. The most EMP survivable vehicle would probably have a mechanically injected Diesel engine, mechanical fuel lift pump and manual transmission. The former has been practically outlawed by the EPA and the latter would mean only part of the population could drive it.

But there will be lots of old farm tractors that still work.

Not necessarily, the only way to tell is to test. Would it really be that hard/expensive for FORD to put a 150 into a test cell? I know though, pennies count.

Thanks
Joel

 

[MUTNAV]

Don't forget, this solar cycle will peak in 2024/2025. I live on a farm and the solar radiation will cook you in no time as compared to the 1960's when I would go without a shirt and have shorts only and barefoot. I never burned nor did I get a deep tan. Now, the temperature can be 80 degrees F and it feels like 100 to me.
Some solar scientists have speculated that we could very well have another "Carrington Event" or worse in the coming 2 years. Scientists at first thought the solar cycle 25 (current) was going to be benign, but they are since watching it very closely.

Solar cycle 25 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You realize you are older also , there is a remote possibility that your skin is more sensitive than when younger. I had noticed similar effects on myself, I just avoid extended exposure a little more.

Thanks
Joel

 

[smittie]

I have licenses for ham and GMRS. I also have the Garmin. I take the Garmin with me whenever I expect to be in remote areas.

After being a ham for 30+ years, as well as working in the public safety radio field, Garmin is the right tool for the job. If you need help, it'll put you in direct contact with professionals. It'll allow sending text messages or e-mail to others, regardless of what sort of license they have or don't have. It's user friendly.
Yeah, costs me a whole $11/month. Not a problem, and well worth it. No way I'm going to lug 25 pounds of HF radio gear around with me in the back country.
Ham is only going to put you in contact with other hobbyists. There is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening to the radio or to lift a finger to assist you.

InReach vs HF. Different tools for different purposes.
Yes, there is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening. And yet, in every incident that I've been involved in, there are always a handful involved.
But hey, if you're telling me that a HAM ticket is a complete waste of time, I will take you at your word and your experience.

 

[MUTNAV]

Distracted focus.

I am more interested in focusing on preparation and practices for things we are likely to encounter, probably with some relative frequency; earthquakes, floods, fires, tornados, hurricanes, etc.

I like the idea, in which case stuff like nutrition and exercise, are some of the most important preparedness actions...

and unfortunately, fitness takes the longest to get to a reasonable level (how long does it take to train to be in good shape , vs. how long does it take to teach a person how to operate a radio?)

In addition, with fitness and nutrition, even with NO disasters, it's a beneficial thing to do.

Thanks
Joel

 

[MUTNAV]

InReach vs HF. Different tools for different purposes.
Yes, there is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening. And yet, in every incident that I've been involved in, there are always a handful involved.
But hey, if you're telling me that my HAM ticket is a complete waste of time, I will take you at your word and your experience.

I don't think that what you're saying he said, is what was said.

Thanks
Joel

 

[belvdr]

InReach vs HF. Different tools for different purposes.
Yes, there is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening. And yet, in every incident that I've been involved in, there are always a handful involved.
But hey, if you're telling me that a HAM ticket is a complete waste of time, I will take you at your word and your experience.

Not a waste of time necessarily, but it's important to understand the potential limitations and set your expectations appropriately. If there were a regional issue, you might not be able to reach anyone.

 

[smittie]

I have not gotten a HAM license until now because I really do not need another expensive hobby. I already have numerous, useless holes into which I can pour money. The community service aspect of Amateur Radio was the only thing keep the ember of interest alive.

 

[MUTNAV]

some light reading is available here... The answer is yes and no...

https://www.edn.com/lightning-strike-becomes-emp-weapon/

Lightning has/is an EMP but on a very small scale. I've had tower sites receive direct hits and the equipment connected survive in the shelter but blow out a Polyphaser, melt an antenna, and toast the hardline. While also frying other equipment in the shelter because the EMP/static discharge from the lightning strike was strong enough to kill it.

So very limited testing in one type of EMP by folks in the comms industry is most likely......

The characteristics of nuclear EMP are much different than a lightning strike. At the very least the rise time is a lot faster, there is also a kind of 'heave' for the earths magnetic field that can take hundreds of seconds to re-establish, depending on burst height and yield. Unfortunately the characteristic waveform of a nuclear EMP is classified, so we'll never know for sure.

On the other hand, there are LOTS of EMP simulators (and techniques) around that I looked up and found for a previous discussion. To bad UL doesn't have one (I think) for for checking stuff out

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

InReach vs HF. Different tools for different purposes.

Yes, different tools for different purposes.

Unless you wife and children are also going to get their ham licenses, AND be proficient at it, you'd be wise to have a simple tool that anyone can use.

Ham radio is a hobby. It can absolutely be used in an emergency, but you need to have your expectations set correctly. Relying on volunteer/hobbyists isn't a good plan, as they can flake out any time they feel like it and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Ham radio might be useful for having a direct voice conversation with someone well outside the disaster zone. Question is, what can those individuals do for you? Answer: Nothing on their own, other than pass messages.

InReach will get you in contact with a professional directly. No middle man. No lugging around lots of equipment and setting up HF antennas in the field. Remember, survival may mean moving quickly. Setting up/tearing down an HF radio is fine if you have a dedicated radio operator.

Yes, there is zero requirements for a hobbyist to be listening. And yet, in every incident that I've been involved in, there are always a handful involved.
But hey, if you're telling me that a HAM ticket is a complete waste of time, I will take you at your word and your experience.

Yes, they get involved.

Ham radio isn't a waste of time. It's a great hobby and can teach you a lot. It's not, however, a replacement for existing tools and professionals.
Personally, in a disaster, I'm not going to want to worry about lugging around a bunch of radio equipment that may or may not get me the help I need. I'm going to take the tool I know will work when I need it, and the one my wife or son can easily use if I cannot.

 

[MUTNAV]

I have not gotten a HAM license until now because I really do not need another expensive hobby. I already have numerous, useless holes into which I can pour money. The community service aspect of Amateur Radio was the only thing keep the ember of interest alive.

A license to do the hobby is pretty cheap, the information gained from practicing the hobby may become a LOT more valuable than any emergency communications you could provide.

Honestly though, if sounds like you think there is a huge commitment to the hobby if you get a license, there aren't many commitment issues, there isn't a commitment at all. It's like agonizing whether to take up knitting or not, if you learn to knit and you like it, great, if not, you explored something and can move on down the long list of hobbies that don't cost much money.

Thanks
Joel

 

[jeepsandradios]

As @mmckenna mentioned I carry an Inreach also.. I have Ham and GMRS licenses as well and access to many public safety systems as well. The Inreach is worth its weight in gold in my opinion. Dirt cheap insurance and I dont have to worry about someone not hearing me or hitting xyz repeater. Most of the disaster stuff I've been involved in most GMRS and ham stuff was down anyway. Unless it was in a hardened site with PS stuff most are not made to last.

The nice think with the Inreach is I can send family a message from a tower site saying im late or xyz when im in no cell land. Its another tool in the tool box. For me my 8500's listen way way more than they tx....

 

[Rt169Radio]

Garmin InReach is an excellent solution. It can be set up to send canned messages, custom messages, or when really needed, emergency messages.
No messing with HF antennas. It is small and portable. Anyone can operate it.

Any disaster big enough to take out those satellites is going to probably take out everything else, so…..

I didn't even know something like that existed, that's pretty cool.