It sounds like Waco is taking back the freqs they contributed to TxWARN for their own system but the freqs haven't been dropped from the TxWARN site, yet. Very interesting.
McLennan County Announces Digital Migration
- Thread starter Ensnared
- Start date
- Status
I finally got through listening to the recordings off my HomePatrol. Very interesting and enlightening! (and thanks!)
I'm going to submit the data from my data-gathering now.
I'm going to submit the data from my data-gathering now.
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What Are You Hearing?
So, you're telling me there are various radio frequencies being used as a new stand-alone trunking system for Waco? Why am I still hearing these using the TxWarn P25 parameters? If possible, PM me to tell me what you've been hearing.
Have you noticed whether the various Talk Groups already listed for Waco PD & McLennan County under TxWarn have been active or not? This is interesting news.
So, you're telling me there are various radio frequencies being used as a new stand-alone trunking system for Waco? Why am I still hearing these using the TxWarn P25 parameters? If possible, PM me to tell me what you've been hearing.
Have you noticed whether the various Talk Groups already listed for Waco PD & McLennan County under TxWarn have been active or not? This is interesting news.
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TG's 155 and 78
Wow, what a wonderful discovery. Having a Home Patrol and/or PSR 800 allows for more data to be retrieved when monitoring a trunking system. I'm so thankful somebody came through here and was kind enough to help out & submit said information into RR. However, possessing these radios does not help those with limited understanding of P25 trunking systems. I do; however, know how to find, identify, and submit talk groups.
I dropped the new Waco Public Safety into the radio and bam, it started picking up talk groups. Since I programmed these, I've already seen two new TG's, 155 & 78.
I will be monitoring these all day long. I loaded Wildcard settings as well.
The content of the conversations on TG 78 sound like maintenance crews and/or utility workers, not LE. Upon further listening, they are talking about landfills & solid waste. So, I am guessing this is Waco Sanitation talk group. I will be submitting this one soon.
Wow, what a wonderful discovery. Having a Home Patrol and/or PSR 800 allows for more data to be retrieved when monitoring a trunking system. I'm so thankful somebody came through here and was kind enough to help out & submit said information into RR. However, possessing these radios does not help those with limited understanding of P25 trunking systems. I do; however, know how to find, identify, and submit talk groups.
I dropped the new Waco Public Safety into the radio and bam, it started picking up talk groups. Since I programmed these, I've already seen two new TG's, 155 & 78.
I will be monitoring these all day long. I loaded Wildcard settings as well.
The content of the conversations on TG 78 sound like maintenance crews and/or utility workers, not LE. Upon further listening, they are talking about landfills & solid waste. So, I am guessing this is Waco Sanitation talk group. I will be submitting this one soon.
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Talked to Insider
Today, I called some folks in government to directly ask them what is amiss. I learned that the emergency responders won't be online until the Waco PD moves to their new HQ around the first part of June. Here is a listing of some specific information. However, the implementation of such seems a bit late.
"Currently, we are in the processing of installing a 12-channel digital 800MHz trunked radio communication system. This system will eventually replace the aging 10-channel analog 800MHz trunked radio communication system. Full implementation is slated for 2012."
Waco-McLennan County Office of Emergency Management - City of Waco, Texas
My inside source directed me to a city work, but at present, he is assisting efforts in West, Texas. I will PM his name to the person who discovered this system in hopes he can make contact with this person who is in charge of this migration.
I also learned that this system will allow for easier interoperability between LE agencies. Furthermore, it sounded like McClennan county will be joining this new system.
Today, I called some folks in government to directly ask them what is amiss. I learned that the emergency responders won't be online until the Waco PD moves to their new HQ around the first part of June. Here is a listing of some specific information. However, the implementation of such seems a bit late.
"Currently, we are in the processing of installing a 12-channel digital 800MHz trunked radio communication system. This system will eventually replace the aging 10-channel analog 800MHz trunked radio communication system. Full implementation is slated for 2012."
Waco-McLennan County Office of Emergency Management - City of Waco, Texas
My inside source directed me to a city work, but at present, he is assisting efforts in West, Texas. I will PM his name to the person who discovered this system in hopes he can make contact with this person who is in charge of this migration.
I also learned that this system will allow for easier interoperability between LE agencies. Furthermore, it sounded like McClennan county will be joining this new system.
Digital Migration in McLennan County
I have another person who knows a great deal about the LLV system. Here is what he stated about LLV,
"Sheriff Parnell McNamara posted a link to the Fox news station in Waco about the change over to digital. The news story said the new system will be adding two more towers for a total of three towers. I assume one of the new towers will be the Browns Lake tower that was built two years ago, it is the site of the Lakeview P25 system. The other tower I assume is at 12th Street and Primrose Drive. I assume that because of the information I got from the Bearcomm and Motorola reps I drove around to do coverage testing of the Lakeview P25 system. According to them and the way the talked, the Lakeview P25 System was never properly engineered. They said they just install what ever the customer wants, which is real smart, and they wonder why they cant get it to work!"
Hence, there might be a partially-functional digital trunking system in LLV, but they are working off conventional frequencies at present.
I have another person who knows a great deal about the LLV system. Here is what he stated about LLV,
"Sheriff Parnell McNamara posted a link to the Fox news station in Waco about the change over to digital. The news story said the new system will be adding two more towers for a total of three towers. I assume one of the new towers will be the Browns Lake tower that was built two years ago, it is the site of the Lakeview P25 system. The other tower I assume is at 12th Street and Primrose Drive. I assume that because of the information I got from the Bearcomm and Motorola reps I drove around to do coverage testing of the Lakeview P25 system. According to them and the way the talked, the Lakeview P25 System was never properly engineered. They said they just install what ever the customer wants, which is real smart, and they wonder why they cant get it to work!"
Hence, there might be a partially-functional digital trunking system in LLV, but they are working off conventional frequencies at present.
FCC License WQKV397?
When I searched the FCC DB for the frequencies listed for the new Public Safety P25 trunking system for Waco, I ran across this one which is consistent with all of the posted frequencies. But, there is an odd issue which I find rather bizarre. I know Waco has been carrying traffic for ETMC using TxWarn (or I thought so); however, with the newly posted frequencies, I'm still hearing ETMC on the former TxWarn talk groups such as 3655 & other ETMC talk groups.
Here is the FCC license I found. This license is a bit old, but it corresponds with the recent frequencies listed in the RR DB for McLennan county. ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WQKV397 - WACO, CITY OF - Frequencies Summary
So far, I heard the following TG's: 138; 154; 155 (transit); 78 (Solid Waste); 79 (solid waste); 129 (sounded like radio installer); 153 (transit); & 168 (horticultural talk).
When I looked at TxWarn P25, shown in green today, I found overlapping channels with the new Waco digital trunking system and TxWarn P25. Yes, I would appreciate having this issue cleared up after we learn what is happening from insiders associated with Waco or TxWarn.
When I searched the FCC DB for the frequencies listed for the new Public Safety P25 trunking system for Waco, I ran across this one which is consistent with all of the posted frequencies. But, there is an odd issue which I find rather bizarre. I know Waco has been carrying traffic for ETMC using TxWarn (or I thought so); however, with the newly posted frequencies, I'm still hearing ETMC on the former TxWarn talk groups such as 3655 & other ETMC talk groups.
Here is the FCC license I found. This license is a bit old, but it corresponds with the recent frequencies listed in the RR DB for McLennan county. ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WQKV397 - WACO, CITY OF - Frequencies Summary
So far, I heard the following TG's: 138; 154; 155 (transit); 78 (Solid Waste); 79 (solid waste); 129 (sounded like radio installer); 153 (transit); & 168 (horticultural talk).
When I looked at TxWarn P25, shown in green today, I found overlapping channels with the new Waco digital trunking system and TxWarn P25. Yes, I would appreciate having this issue cleared up after we learn what is happening from insiders associated with Waco or TxWarn.
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As mentioned, there are several frequencies, specifically in the control channel section of the system(s), which are assigned to both systems. I've never seen this before and it definitely will cause problems for scanner users if they have the active CC for one system in the programming for the other.
How I've solved this for myself is to remove 859.2125 from the Waco 572 entry in my HP's favorites list, and remove 858.2125 from TxWARN site 002-030. These removed frequencies are the opposite system's current control channel (that is, 858.2125 is the current Waco 572 channel).
If you don't do this, then your scanner is likely to pick up the control channel from the "wrong" system. This is because the scanner will happily decode whatever control channel it first finds, regardless of whether it's for the system you've named the entry as or not. Professional radios get around this by requiring the control channel data to be validated against the system programming. If our scanners were designed so that they only accepted a control channel broadcasting sysid 1A7 when you were scanning TxWARN, you (nor I) would never learn about sys 572.
I did submit a bunch of talkgroup IDs but the admins haven't gotten around to it yet. I have very little experience with the radio systems in this area but I think you'll find the channel structure is laid out much like the Waco public works channels on TxWARN. I heard plenty of "Go to B" and "Go back to channel A" from various users, which seem to correspond to some channel allocations on TxWARN.
Also, I'm not assisting in West. I had some extra time after being at the races at Circuit of the Americas last week, and as the FD I work for at home in Canada seems to be very similar in composition and area served to West FD, I wanted to stop by, take a look at the town and area, and pay my respects. I also just got back from the Czech Stop where I put a donation in the bucket on the counter. (I wish I'd had the forethought to bring a T-shirt or shoulder patch from my department to contribute to the display outside the firehall.)
I'm heading back to Alberta Saturday morning, but the last 10 days have been excellent in all aspects (except for when I tripped over a curb at a rest stop and wrenched my ankle). So I'm sure I'll be back eventually. Thanks for the warm welcome and support here in the forums.
How I've solved this for myself is to remove 859.2125 from the Waco 572 entry in my HP's favorites list, and remove 858.2125 from TxWARN site 002-030. These removed frequencies are the opposite system's current control channel (that is, 858.2125 is the current Waco 572 channel).
If you don't do this, then your scanner is likely to pick up the control channel from the "wrong" system. This is because the scanner will happily decode whatever control channel it first finds, regardless of whether it's for the system you've named the entry as or not. Professional radios get around this by requiring the control channel data to be validated against the system programming. If our scanners were designed so that they only accepted a control channel broadcasting sysid 1A7 when you were scanning TxWARN, you (nor I) would never learn about sys 572.
I did submit a bunch of talkgroup IDs but the admins haven't gotten around to it yet. I have very little experience with the radio systems in this area but I think you'll find the channel structure is laid out much like the Waco public works channels on TxWARN. I heard plenty of "Go to B" and "Go back to channel A" from various users, which seem to correspond to some channel allocations on TxWARN.
Also, I'm not assisting in West. I had some extra time after being at the races at Circuit of the Americas last week, and as the FD I work for at home in Canada seems to be very similar in composition and area served to West FD, I wanted to stop by, take a look at the town and area, and pay my respects. I also just got back from the Czech Stop where I put a donation in the bucket on the counter. (I wish I'd had the forethought to bring a T-shirt or shoulder patch from my department to contribute to the display outside the firehall.)
I'm heading back to Alberta Saturday morning, but the last 10 days have been excellent in all aspects (except for when I tripped over a curb at a rest stop and wrenched my ankle). So I'm sure I'll be back eventually. Thanks for the warm welcome and support here in the forums.
If scanners accepted the NAC as a site parameter it would make it much easier to differentiate between sites and systems when roving around. Sure would be a useful feature.
Czech Stop
Sometimes, it takes someone from outside the area to notice things that don't add up. If it hadn't been for your keen observations, it might have taken a while to figure out what is going on in this area.
I will try to do my part in identifying and verifying various talk groups for this new system.
By the way, what did you end up buying at the Czech Stop? The peach cobbler is sinfully good.
Best of luck to you.
Thanks
As mentioned, there are several frequencies, specifically in the control channel section of the system(s), which are assigned to both systems. I've never seen this before and it definitely will cause problems for scanner users if they have the active CC for one system in the programming for the other.
How I've solved this for myself is to remove 859.2125 from the Waco 572 entry in my HP's favorites list, and remove 858.2125 from TxWARN site 002-030. These removed frequencies are the opposite system's current control channel (that is, 858.2125 is the current Waco 572 channel).
If you don't do this, then your scanner is likely to pick up the control channel from the "wrong" system. This is because the scanner will happily decode whatever control channel it first finds, regardless of whether it's for the system you've named the entry as or not. Professional radios get around this by requiring the control channel data to be validated against the system programming. If our scanners were designed so that they only accepted a control channel broadcasting sysid 1A7 when you were scanning TxWARN, you (nor I) would never learn about sys 572.
I did submit a bunch of talkgroup IDs but the admins haven't gotten around to it yet. I have very little experience with the radio systems in this area but I think you'll find the channel structure is laid out much like the Waco public works channels on TxWARN. I heard plenty of "Go to B" and "Go back to channel A" from various users, which seem to correspond to some channel allocations on TxWARN.
Also, I'm not assisting in West. I had some extra time after being at the races at Circuit of the Americas last week, and as the FD I work for at home in Canada seems to be very similar in composition and area served to West FD, I wanted to stop by, take a look at the town and area, and pay my respects. I also just got back from the Czech Stop where I put a donation in the bucket on the counter. (I wish I'd had the forethought to bring a T-shirt or shoulder patch from my department to contribute to the display outside the firehall.)
I'm heading back to Alberta Saturday morning, but the last 10 days have been excellent in all aspects (except for when I tripped over a curb at a rest stop and wrenched my ankle). So I'm sure I'll be back eventually. Thanks for the warm welcome and support here in the forums.
Sometimes, it takes someone from outside the area to notice things that don't add up. If it hadn't been for your keen observations, it might have taken a while to figure out what is going on in this area.
I will try to do my part in identifying and verifying various talk groups for this new system.
By the way, what did you end up buying at the Czech Stop? The peach cobbler is sinfully good.
Best of luck to you.
Thanks
rattlerbb01:
Why don't you move Jay's submissions out of TxWARN and over to the new system you established. I was trying to see what was going on and it finally occurred to me that he may have submitted the info to the TxWARN system.
Why don't you move Jay's submissions out of TxWARN and over to the new system you established. I was trying to see what was going on and it finally occurred to me that he may have submitted the info to the TxWARN system.
Interesting - that last submission was submitted to a new system, as you can see from the text auto-added by RR at the bottom of the submission, but the submission got attached to TxWARN somehow.
You will remember (from your stint) that we can move submissions from system to system or county to county as needed. I think he mistakenly moved it to TxWARN instead of the new one when he grabbed it.
Puzzled Look On Face
I must admit, I have been following these posts & wondering what information is accurate. Hopefully, there was a submission to fix this. As of right now, it seems, the Tx Warn P25 operating frequencies listed are supposed to be the ones listed for the new Waco Public Safety.
So, it seems as though Waco is keeping their FCC frequencies for their new digital trunking while TxWarn P25 still operates the same ones? This is rather odd.
I currently removed the new Waco Public Safety frequencies in order to let the dust settle. Then, after things are submitted, I will return and see what to do.
Since the CC's are the same for both, I would have great difficulty conducting an analysis of the systems in question.
I must admit, I have been following these posts & wondering what information is accurate. Hopefully, there was a submission to fix this. As of right now, it seems, the Tx Warn P25 operating frequencies listed are supposed to be the ones listed for the new Waco Public Safety.
So, it seems as though Waco is keeping their FCC frequencies for their new digital trunking while TxWarn P25 still operates the same ones? This is rather odd.
I currently removed the new Waco Public Safety frequencies in order to let the dust settle. Then, after things are submitted, I will return and see what to do.
Since the CC's are the same for both, I would have great difficulty conducting an analysis of the systems in question.
I think the belief is that the TxWARN site will disappear once the 572 system is operational.
Everything has been submitted and will be in the DB shortly.
If I recall correctly almost all modern scanners manage P25 systems using the Control Channel Only function, which means that all you really need is the current CC in order to track a system. So all you need for TxWARN 002-030 is 859.2125, and all you need for 572's site is 858.2125. Disregard the rest of the frequencies (and hopefully the CC of either site doesn't roll again).
Everything has been submitted and will be in the DB shortly.
If I recall correctly almost all modern scanners manage P25 systems using the Control Channel Only function, which means that all you really need is the current CC in order to track a system. So all you need for TxWARN 002-030 is 859.2125, and all you need for 572's site is 858.2125. Disregard the rest of the frequencies (and hopefully the CC of either site doesn't roll again).
Temporary Fix
Yes, I am fully aware of the CC controlled function of my radio; however, this won't work if either site decides to use their AC's. Typically, unless it is a very large system, I load all of the operating frequencies. With Waco TxWarn, I could do this because I was loading a small portion of the TxWarn coverage. The same was applied to the new Waco Public Safety. I load all.
There is a reason why. One day, while in Santa Fe, NM, I watched a cop drive by in hot pursuit while my radio remained completely silent. I'd only loaded the CC's listed. However, when I returned and downloaded all operating frequencies, it returned to normal function. This city was in the process of coming back from re-banding.
So, for the mean time, I will alter my operating frequencies. This should eliminate seeing a ETMC Tx Warn P25 talk group showing up in Waco's new system. That did not compute.
So, it seems as though all of the talk groups for Waco & McClennan County listed in TxWarn P25 are inaccurate. Since Waco won't be likely using said system, these will need to be removed. I suppose it is a wait on see issue. I've not read any official statement from Waco regarding the city's plans, but I did talk to a friend on the inside who indicated Waco was standing alone.
Yes, I am fully aware of the CC controlled function of my radio; however, this won't work if either site decides to use their AC's. Typically, unless it is a very large system, I load all of the operating frequencies. With Waco TxWarn, I could do this because I was loading a small portion of the TxWarn coverage. The same was applied to the new Waco Public Safety. I load all.
There is a reason why. One day, while in Santa Fe, NM, I watched a cop drive by in hot pursuit while my radio remained completely silent. I'd only loaded the CC's listed. However, when I returned and downloaded all operating frequencies, it returned to normal function. This city was in the process of coming back from re-banding.
So, for the mean time, I will alter my operating frequencies. This should eliminate seeing a ETMC Tx Warn P25 talk group showing up in Waco's new system. That did not compute.
So, it seems as though all of the talk groups for Waco & McClennan County listed in TxWarn P25 are inaccurate. Since Waco won't be likely using said system, these will need to be removed. I suppose it is a wait on see issue. I've not read any official statement from Waco regarding the city's plans, but I did talk to a friend on the inside who indicated Waco was standing alone.
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Hey guys,
I worked the first submissions as needed to get the new system off the ground before the weekend. I just got back from spending the weekend with the wife and kids (been in OK for work training), so I am catching up now. The last submission with the new TGs was originally assigned to TxWARN P25, but I reassigned it to the new Waco Public Safety P25 system and I am about to work it in to the database. Sorry for the delay! Keep the new system info coming!
I worked the first submissions as needed to get the new system off the ground before the weekend. I just got back from spending the weekend with the wife and kids (been in OK for work training), so I am catching up now. The last submission with the new TGs was originally assigned to TxWARN P25, but I reassigned it to the new Waco Public Safety P25 system and I am about to work it in to the database. Sorry for the delay! Keep the new system info coming!
Talk Group 600: ETMC Dispatch
What an interesting turn of events regarding this new Waco Public Safety system. While I've been attempting to identify the various new talk groups, someone has been quite diligent in this effort. So, again, thanks to who is responsible for this new information.
At present, I've not heard a peep from the Sheriff on the digital talk group, 528. Since this is a court transport talk group, I would imagine this channel is active in the early morning or early evening.
I will attempt to help out if and when I hear a new talk group. I just heard a new talk group, Waco Fire at 1045 hours, talk group 600. I will monitor this for the designated talk group name.
The mystery that still remains is the topic of this thread, "McLennan County Announces Digital Migration." So, I wonder what the Sheriff will be doing with this new system since they are only licensed to use VHF.
Then I ran across this information which occurred during March of 2013,
"Court OKs $499K for sheriff’s radio system
In other action Tuesday, the McLennan County Commissioners Court approved spending $499,180 to install a new Motorola digital 800 MHz radio system for the sheriff’s office.
The purchase includes 52 new mobile car radios and 96 new handheld portable radios to be shared between sheriff’s deputies and constables, as well as upgrades to 44 current handheld radios in the sheriff’s office.
Motorola is offering the county a three-year, .91 percent financing deal for the system, with the first payment due in 2014, said David Johnson, director of administration for the sheriff’s office.
The new system will connect with a digital 800 MHz radio system recently installed by the city of Waco. Waco and McLennan County were on an analog 800 MHz system together, but Waco began the switch to digital as new technology upgrades made portions of the analog system obsolete.
Johnson said Waco will bear the annual maintenance costs for the system.
Upgrading the county’s radios will allow greater radio transmissions and coverage throughout rural McLennan County and also improve communications with Waco officers.
The sheriff’s office previously wanted to install a new digital VHF trunking system to better communicate in the field with surrounding local law enforcement agencies using the VHF format. But that system would have cost up to $4 million, also through Motorola." from the Waco Tribune Herald 5/28/13 County could offset higher jail costs with payroll savings - WacoTrib.com: Mclennan County
What I don't understand is the wording used, "Court approved spending $499,180 to install a new Motorola digital 800 MHz radio system for the sheriff’s office." Does this mean there will be two separate P25 trunking systems in town or will there only be a connection between the two LE agencies on the same.
Breaking News: Radio service just identified talk group 600, ETMC Dispatch Channel.
What an interesting turn of events regarding this new Waco Public Safety system. While I've been attempting to identify the various new talk groups, someone has been quite diligent in this effort. So, again, thanks to who is responsible for this new information.
At present, I've not heard a peep from the Sheriff on the digital talk group, 528. Since this is a court transport talk group, I would imagine this channel is active in the early morning or early evening.
I will attempt to help out if and when I hear a new talk group. I just heard a new talk group, Waco Fire at 1045 hours, talk group 600. I will monitor this for the designated talk group name.
The mystery that still remains is the topic of this thread, "McLennan County Announces Digital Migration." So, I wonder what the Sheriff will be doing with this new system since they are only licensed to use VHF.
Then I ran across this information which occurred during March of 2013,
"Court OKs $499K for sheriff’s radio system
In other action Tuesday, the McLennan County Commissioners Court approved spending $499,180 to install a new Motorola digital 800 MHz radio system for the sheriff’s office.
The purchase includes 52 new mobile car radios and 96 new handheld portable radios to be shared between sheriff’s deputies and constables, as well as upgrades to 44 current handheld radios in the sheriff’s office.
Motorola is offering the county a three-year, .91 percent financing deal for the system, with the first payment due in 2014, said David Johnson, director of administration for the sheriff’s office.
The new system will connect with a digital 800 MHz radio system recently installed by the city of Waco. Waco and McLennan County were on an analog 800 MHz system together, but Waco began the switch to digital as new technology upgrades made portions of the analog system obsolete.
Johnson said Waco will bear the annual maintenance costs for the system.
Upgrading the county’s radios will allow greater radio transmissions and coverage throughout rural McLennan County and also improve communications with Waco officers.
The sheriff’s office previously wanted to install a new digital VHF trunking system to better communicate in the field with surrounding local law enforcement agencies using the VHF format. But that system would have cost up to $4 million, also through Motorola." from the Waco Tribune Herald 5/28/13 County could offset higher jail costs with payroll savings - WacoTrib.com: Mclennan County
What I don't understand is the wording used, "Court approved spending $499,180 to install a new Motorola digital 800 MHz radio system for the sheriff’s office." Does this mean there will be two separate P25 trunking systems in town or will there only be a connection between the two LE agencies on the same.
Breaking News: Radio service just identified talk group 600, ETMC Dispatch Channel.
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TG's Waco Public Safety P25
Today, I heard talk group 610 traffic from ETMC to Providence ER. I will submit this later. I've already submitted ETMC Dispatch as talk group 600. A number of other talk groups came up, but none related to LE.
Today, I heard talk group 610 traffic from ETMC to Providence ER. I will submit this later. I've already submitted ETMC Dispatch as talk group 600. A number of other talk groups came up, but none related to LE.
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- Status
