Motorola NAS tips?

[Omie09]

I have an XTS5000, and I recently set up NAS. It doesn’t affiliate at all. However, I am having trouble hearing transmissions and the radio is missing them. I’m unsure what the issue is but I feel like I may have possibly messed up the band plan. Any tips to stop missing transmission? (Monitoring Starcom21)

 

[Omie09]

Where'd you hear that?

On another form on this site. Talking about if there’s a gas then RF might create a reaction with it.

 

[GTR8000]

Tx Inhibit will indeed prevent all transmissions (including attempts to register/affiliate), however as @K2NEC stated, the radio will no longer pass traffic on a P25 system. The Tx Inhibit trick used to work on 3600 systems, but not with 9600 systems.

 

[Omie09]

Confirm your 700 bandplan element. This may not be it, but if it works on 800 it's worth a try.

I have my band plan set up this way to monitor Dupage county. I don't have RR plus or whatever so I cannot see bandplan info on here but I pulled it from another site. Not too sure how old it is, or if the bandplan of Starcom has updated...

 

[Asunakiyori]

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I have my band plan set up this way to monitor Dupage county. I don't have RR plus or whatever so I cannot see bandplan info on here but I pulled it from another site. Not too sure how old it is, or if the bandplan of Starcom has updated...

that 450 seems out of place on a 7/800 radio...

 

[chrismol1]

Really? I heard that TX Inhibit will not allow any sort transmission as a feature for hazmat situations or something of the sort.

That's right. It's been specified in the user manuals for a long time now. This is also an additonal step to lock down a NAS radio. A radio on a selected talkgroup on a P25 9600 Phase 1/2 trunked system needs to register/affiliate before passing traffic. But that only applies to authorized radios, using a NAS radio of course does not need to affiliate to pass traffic, in proper NAS programming, it should not require this but indeed many users including yourself and myself, enable it as peace of mind. and especially helpful for very bad wrong setup of NAS where someone does not change the designated tx member in the scan list to Selected Chan and leaves it on talkback, risking rouge transmissions.






As said in previous post, the old TX Inhibit Method of NAS on old 3600 analog trunked system, you could select a trunked talkgroup while set to TX inhibit and still receive traffic, only works with older models, MTS2000, Jedi etc era radios and also when there was the Affiliate on PTT feature. The succeding models cannot as it's a function of the firmware to automatically affiliate.

 

[chrismol1]

I don't know what's up with the 450 either, probably somebody copying another trunked system bandplan line by line when the default boxes could be checked off for everything from VHF to 900. But it doesn't matter as this radios 700/800 and the bandplan only matters in this case of this XTS, the 700 FDMA. The rest can be ignored and will be as the current codeplug only has Channel ID Number 2 for the 700 FDMA channel ID/bandplan selection in the control channel page.

Problem solved. Changed trunking system search time to 255 and digital modulator to CQPSK. However, encountering a new issue. When receiving specific talkgroups, Fail 001 will appear, but all other talkgroups and trunking systems work perfectly. Does this mean there is something wrong with tuning, programming error or simply p25 phase 2 in use?

I have been perfectly with talk groups in Will county. This issue is fail 001 while trying to monitor Starcom in Dupage county. As far as I know I have set up the trunking system and scan the same way and I was asking for a solution or answer.

Have you scanned conventionally and confirmed you can receive the dupage transmission on the XTS in FDMA?

From memory, my XTS completely ignores TDMA channel assignments. My guess is the bandplan is wrong, like maybe for 700 MHz. Does the site in question use 700 MHz?

If I recall, there was a change in later XTS/XTL firmware to ignore TDMA during scan as the control channel would send out a talkgroup channel grant but of course the XTS/XTL doesn't do Phase 2.

If the bandplans are the same for both sites OP has programmed, I wonder if that could be the case. DuPage county has much more TDMA talkgroups than Will County. If the XTS has older firmware and those talkgroups are indeed TDMA, the FAIL 001 might be what is being seen.

 

[GTR8000]

As said in previous post, the old TX Inhibit Method of NAS on old 3600 analog trunked system, you could select a trunked talkgroup while set to TX inhibit and still receive traffic, only works with older models, MTS2000, Jedi etc era radios and also when there was the Affiliate on PTT feature. The succeding models cannot as it's a function of the firmware to automatically affiliate.

Worked just fine with ASTRO 25 and APX models. Don't want to stray too far off topic, but I monitored a 3600 system for years with an APX in TX Inhibit mode and it never once tried to affiliate, while passing both analog and P25 audio without issue. Anyway, back on topic....

 

[Omie09]

Have you scanned conventionally and confirmed you can receive the dupage transmission on the XTS in FDMA?

I have tried with a Kenwood that would allow some traffic to go through but then get stuck on a random channel with no audio because I live very close to a bunch of office buildings with security, fire, and all sorts of transmitters. I shall try with the Motorola.

If I recall, there was a change in later XTS/XTL firmware to ignore TDMA during scan as the control channel would send out a talkgroup channel grant but of course the XTS/XTL doesn't do Phase 2.

Host version: 20.50.05
DSP version: 19.50.01

 

[Omie09]

I have conducted my own experiment and have results. I added a TDMA talkgroup into the NAS in the XTS5000. I also monitored the talkgroup using broadcastify and when the talkgroup was in DDM I could hear on the XTS but when it was full TDMA, there was no fail 001 on radio. This means the fail 001 is not caused by TDMA. Based on what others have said, now it comes down to bandplan or hardware. The hardware answer doesn't make full sense to me though because I am able to listen to everything in Will county, even 700mhz sites of Starcom for WESCOM.

 

[Omie09]

Something very odd has happened. I was adding more talk groups into the radio, and when I went to scan, the previously troublesome talk groups had sprung to life. No more fail 001. The fail 001 spread to a different talk group so here I am again.

 

[Asunakiyori]

Something very odd has happened. I was adding more talk groups into the radio, and when I went to scan, the previously troublesome talk groups had sprung to life. No more fail 001. The fail 001 spread to a different talk group so here I am again.

If the system can operate in a TDMA/FDMA set up.. it possible they are moving some TG's to a phase 2 operation but if theres a phase 1 subscriber, it drops back to FDMA while that subscriber is active since the XTS5000 cannot.. will not.. will never do TDMA

of course i could be wrong

 

[Omie09]

If the system can operate in a TDMA/FDMA set up.. it possible they are moving some TG's to a phase 2 operation but if theres a phase 1 subscriber, it drops back to FDMA while that subscriber is active since the XTS5000 cannot.. will not.. will never do TDMA

of course i could be wrong

I do know that the talk groups do this however my radio will stay silent when TDMA transmissions are occurring, tested with broadcastify and my radio. I have no clue what I did but I guess I can only investigate more.

 

[KE4ZNR]

If the system can operate in a TDMA/FDMA set up.. it possible they are moving some TG's to a phase 2 operation but if theres a phase 1 subscriber, it drops back to FDMA while that subscriber is active since the XTS5000 cannot.. will not.. will never do TDMA

of course i could be wrong

It's called Dynamic Dual Mode (DDM). Not every TDMA system uses it.

 

[Anderegg]

That's right. It's been specified in the user manuals for a long time now. This is also an additonal step to lock down a NAS radio. A radio on a selected talkgroup on a P25 9600 Phase 1/2 trunked system needs to register/affiliate before passing traffic. But that only applies to authorized radios, using a NAS radio of course does not need to affiliate to pass traffic, in proper NAS programming, it should not require this but indeed many users including yourself and myself, enable it as peace of mind. and especially helpful for very bad wrong setup of NAS where someone does not change the designated tx member in the scan list to Selected Chan and leaves it on talkback, risking rouge transmissions.


View attachment 180519



As said in previous post, the old TX Inhibit Method of NAS on old 3600 analog trunked system, you could select a trunked talkgroup while set to TX inhibit and still receive traffic, only works with older models, MTS2000, Jedi etc era radios and also when there was the Affiliate on PTT feature. The succeding models cannot as it's a function of the firmware to automatically affiliate.

A use case scenario for trunking personality "scan list inhibit", would be if you had an APX7000/8000 and wanted to utilize the UHF and VHF bands for conventional simplex and repeaters while still allowing 7/800 NAS operation without slaving the entire radio into TX INHIB mode.

 

[Omie09]

Okay I forgot about this but I fixed everything.