MSP Charger...now with Bubble!

[vinzep491]

Those are some cool old school pics, but again, that bubble wasn't effective, either.

The newer vector LED lightbars PSP has in use now are brighter than anything I've ever seen before, and definitly surpass the old clunky bubble in these pics.

 

[bigbluemsp]

You can't say that until you see them side by side and you never have.

Fortunately I have at a funeral here in Detroit BUT I didn't take pics.

 

[bigbluemsp]

If LEDs are so bad as far as visibility, then why are most agencies (Police and Fire) switching to them?

Ability to change brightness settings on the fly
Flash Patterns
Life (how long they last)
Amp Draw (No need to heavier battery, 2nd battery etc in the car.

 

[KB8QDM]

Now that I've actually seen an LED bubble on an MSP car in use, I can say that my opinion is somewhat changed. Somewhere between Mackinaw City and Gaylord on 75, bright sunny morning. I first saw the light and glanced at the trip odometer, when I passed the car, I looked again. Almost 3 miles away, and it was still bright and easily seen when I went around a curve a mile or so after I passed. I doubt the performance would be as good with any kind of precip or fog, but I could still see it a good ways off.

I love the way everyone from outside Michigan is always slamming the bubble. Yeah, sure, it's a tradition, and it's distinctive (no doubt who it is when you see the Big Red One in the rearview), but it is also aerodynamic. Air passes around that single beacon better than it passes over/under even a slim LED bar. Which means better performance at high and low speeds, and less drag to suck down the gas that we the taxpayers of Michigan buy for them. If using what some call an outdated, ineffective warning light saves some money, and means our troopers aren't facing layoffs or sitting in the post for half of their shift because the fuel budget is running low, I'm perfectly ok with that. The combination of the bubble and the rest of the warning light package are more than effective to me.

I have much more confidence in MSP's testing processes for vehicles and their equipment than people's opinions. I'm sure if they came across a full lightbar that met the same standards as the bubble, they would have made the change a long time ago.

 

[soberbyker]

Now that I've actually seen an LED bubble on an MSP car in use, I can say that my opinion is somewhat changed. Somewhere between Mackinaw City and Gaylord on 75, bright sunny morning. I first saw the light and glanced at the trip odometer, when I passed the car, I looked again. Almost 3 miles away, and it was still bright and easily seen when I went around a curve a mile or so after I passed. I doubt the performance would be as good with any kind of precip or fog, but I could still see it a good ways off.

I love the way everyone from outside Michigan is always slamming the bubble. Yeah, sure, it's a tradition, and it's distinctive (no doubt who it is when you see the Big Red One in the rearview), but it is also aerodynamic. Air passes around that single beacon better than it passes over/under even a slim LED bar. Which means better performance at high and low speeds, and less drag to suck down the gas that we the taxpayers of Michigan buy for them. If using what some call an outdated, ineffective warning light saves some money, and means our troopers aren't facing layoffs or sitting in the post for half of their shift because the fuel budget is running low, I'm perfectly ok with that. The combination of the bubble and the rest of the warning light package are more than effective to me.

I have much more confidence in MSP's testing processes for vehicles and their equipment than people's opinions. I'm sure if they came across a full lightbar that met the same standards as the bubble, they would have made the change a long time ago.

Well not everyone, I'm from PA and I like it, in fact I offered some photo's in this thread from when PA had them because I thought they looked better, especially when they had the rear facing brake lights on the roof with the bubble as can be seen in the photo's. Like you said, when you saw the single bubble (strobe in PAs case) you knew who it was.
.

 

[vinzep491]

I'm sure if they came across a full lightbar that met the same standards as the bubble, they would have made the change a long time ago.

I doubt this... the general ststement around here is that MSP cares more about their tradition than anything else....

 

[Piston52Heavy]

If the MSP is so concerned about tradition, why don't they go back to carrying six-shooters?

 

[Fiveo]

The fact of the matter is, you could put lights on a car bright enough to be seen 10 miles out, but that won't stop some jack hole from driving up your rear. Lights serve as warning devices and no matter their design, they are ineffective on drivers who refuse to pay attention to ANYTHING on the road. Hence police cruisers in every state, with every possible type of lights and beacons end up getting crashed into while on roadside stops. If it could be PROVEN that a light bar was more effective (read safer) than the single beacon, I think MSP would change. Alas that is not the case, therefore they choose to honor their traditions.

For those that wish to educate themselves on the subject: http://www.theiacp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=LV4uUua9uvY=&tabid=392

A quote from the link, "Dr. Solomon currently advocates the old single dome rotating lamp as an effective warning signal"

 

[radioman2001]

Having worked for Federal Signal out of Blue Island Ill in the 70's, I can confirm that the bubble is more aerodynamic than a light bar. The lab style testing was comparing against the old Twinsonic bar, the Aerodynic was at 60-70% of what the Bubble was. There was also testing with visibility comparisons. Granted at that time there were only Halogen bulbs to test in the old twin bulb rotator. The light bars were superior in visibility with only halogens since the mirror reflections or multi-bulb arrangement of the Aerodynic.. I suspect that the newer very slim LED light bars are both superior in lighting and in wind resistance. If an agency wants to go with tradition that's there call. But I very highly doubt that without an actual lab style testing as was done at that time, that the bubble is superior to a light bar in wind resistance or lighting capability. This whole issue is kinda like if NYPD went back Black Green and White cars with the 4 bulb sealed beam and the flapper siren. Tradition will only take you so far, safety need to be the main concern, and Dr Solomon's opinion is only his opinion. Just like the cars and trucks there needs to be actual lab style safety testing of all devices used in Public Safety, thanks to all the Lawyers.

 

[radioman2001]

"Just for S and G's, my list of PD cars from over the years.
1970 Fury I 440 "T" motor former NYSP Troop F
1976 Gran Fury "U" motor bought new wrong rear axle ratio made it a dog.
1980 Gran Fury 360cid HP, bought new real fast handled OK, so fast I wrecked it twice.
1984 Baby Fury 318 cid Bought new a real dog, disliked it so much I gave to my wife
1985 Baby Fury 318 cid not much better former NYSP Troop T
1986 Baby Fury 318 cid not any better former NYSP Troop T
X2-1988 Crown Vic PD 302 cid, a dog, but decent handling bought both new from Atlanta dealer, who had over 600 cars in stock. Drove it until bought Chevy then gave to my wife.
1990 Chevy Caprice 350 cid, a real fast car, but had numerous problems bought new off NJSP contract.
1991 Ford CVPI 5.8 great car, after motor rebuild with a better cam, former NYSP Troop T
1996 Ford CVPI 4.6 Bought with blown motor,engine went bad a second time, former NYSP Troop T
1996 Ford CVPI 4.6 Sold with 120K on it,wish I hadn't good car, former NYSP Troop T
1998 Ford CVPI 4.6 Great car,engine went at 167K from blown oil cooler line,former NYSP Troop T
1998 Ford CVPI 4.6 Brother still using it in California, has 190K former NYSP Troop T
1999 Ford CVPI 4.6 Current daily driver 161K
1999 Ford CVPI 4.6 Current alternate daily driver 131K
2009 Dodge Charger 5.7l Hemi Interceptor, just 10K on it but been a great car."

I actually missed a few, been so many. I started looking through my old registration cards, and found a few more.

1973 Plymouth Fury I with 360-2bbl bought from a local PD with 60K A real workhorse, kept until went into Air Force in 1975, sorry I sold it to help buy the 76 Gran Fury dog.
1977 Plymouth Fury not Gran Fury. Ordered new 2dr with police options package 400-4bbl, a real screamer comparable to an older Road Runner. Wrecked it unfortunately with only 40K on it. I fell asleep after the long trip back from Dayton Hamfest. I liked the 2 dr so much I bought the following to replace it, but not the same.
1975 Plymouth Fury not Gran Fury, former FBI 2 dr 360-2bbl. Real nice car, got blasted at stop sign, made money.
1975 Plymouth Gran Fury 400-2bbl, put 4-bbl manifold on it. Bought from local PD in NJ,good running car, never even got to register it, I had to sell needed money at the time.
1977 Plymouth Fury not Gran Fury. Another replacement for 2 the doors. Had a 360-2bbl, only problem was transmission at 120K, sold it for more than I paid.
1978 Plymouth Fury not Gran Fury 360-2bbl stolen in NYC.
1976 Gran Fury 400-4bbl former FBI car, used it for 2 years, an odd problem was that I had to have the cam replaced, the lobes had worn down to the point that the valves didn't open enough.
1976 Plymouth Fury not Gran Fury, former FBI Kennedy Airport car, had real low gear ratio, terrible gas mileage, sold within 1 year.

Believe it or not my favorite was the 1973 Plymouth Fury 360 for the styling as opposed to the motor. Second was the 1977 2 door because of the motor.
I am happy to see the performance wars back again. It usually means that the car manufacturers will be including nice options in the car to sweeten the deal. My 96's had many more options than the 98 and 99 cars.
I was very suprised at the Holden, like to see how it lasts in NYPD service. That is got to be the hardest service life for any car. Most cars are gotten rid of at 40K.

See my other post about the emergency lighting.

 

[garryd451]

I'm talking from the standpoint of a public safety official from out-of-state.... And with my experiece, that stupid bubble is not sufficient. Period.

Any test you show is irrelevent. We can keep fighting and I dont mind doing that, but either way, I think what I think.

**** Tradition.

Even when you're wrong! But that is what makes America Great!!!

 

[Piston52Heavy]

Maybe all MSP vehicles could be slick tops and the bubble vs LED debate could end.........

 

[vinzep491]

Maybe all MSP vehicles could be slick tops and the bubble vs LED debate could end.........

Personally, I love the slicktop look, so no complaints here!!

Let's put this to rest!

 

[soberbyker]

Maybe all MSP vehicles could be slick tops and the bubble vs LED debate could end.........

How about this type not truly a slick top but pretty close, has the same thing up front.

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[vinzep491]

How about this type not truly a slick top but pretty close, has the same thing up front.

.

Good picture find. i've never been a fan of this design, altough it does make for a unique sight!

 

[soberbyker]

Good picture find. i've never been a fan of this design, altough it does make for a unique sight!

I've seen one in person, but only one, and only one on the net, what type of lightbar is it do you know?

 

[vinzep491]

No I'm not sure of the model. They have a bunch of decomissioned C Vic's at the State Police Fleet Mgmt yard in Harrisburg, off of Herr St, and last time I drove by there were probably 5-10 of these mounted on old patrolcars that I could see just sitting around.

Only seen one lit-up, once, and it was YEARS ago.

PSP is also the only agency I've ever seen to give these lightbars a chance. Dont know of any other departments that have used them.

 

[soberbyker]

No I'm not sure of the model. They have a bunch of decomissioned C Vic's at the State Police Fleet Mgmt yard in Harrisburg, off of Herr St, and last time I drove by there were probably 5-10 of these mounted on old patrolcars that I could see just sitting around.

Only seen one lit-up, once, and it was YEARS ago.

PSP is also the only agency I've ever seen to give these lightbars a chance. Dont know of any other departments that have used them.

Found it, it was a Whelen FastTrax lightbar, made exclusivly for the Crown Vic.

YouTube - SIRENNET's Channel

Georgia State Police, San Fransisco, PSP, & Connecticut State Police are the only ones I could find. Came out before LED light bars, which became the new rage and the Fasttrax faded away.
.
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[FFPM571]

I installed Fastrax on a few demo cars for whelen.. They never fit well and to run the cables you had to drill a 1 1/4 hole in the back and front of the roof. It was pretty much held on with 2 side tape. The idea was good but the design sucked. Code3 came out with the wingman and supervisor that pretty much eliminated the outside the car idea.

 

[drdispatch]

Okay, since we're all expressing opinions here;

That one's butt-ugly.