New Jersey Interoperability System on TRX-1

[jackmail226]

Hoping to get some help on the NJICS (NJ Interop system, P25 II)
I am trying to program this system into a TRX-1 and I have updated the EZscan App, the Firmware and Library but I get nothing coming in on the scanner. It downloads and all the frequencies and talkgroups appear to be in the scanner but it is dead silence for hours on end. Talkgroups and system frequencies are taken from the RR database and I have tried towers local to me and then the entire list of sites. I am in an area (Lake Hopatcong) where I know there is coverage. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I may be doing wrong?

 

[RaleighGuy]

What are you trying to listen to, which agency? Have you looked in the database to see if there is a e or E in the mode column, that would mean it is encrypted. Have you tried scanning with a wildcard? Have you made sure the tower/site you entered are within range?

These are the only TGs from Sussex Co where Lake Hopatcong is located, others maybe in use but not identified yet or encrypted.

 

[dave3825]

For starters only scan the sites closest to you. Many of the sites are simulcast and that might not be the best scanner. Try scanning from different areas and try other antennas if you have any. What county are you in? Try locating a site that's not simulcast.



Seems that radio has adjustable gain.

TRX 1&2 on a 700 MHz Phase 2 Simulcast System

I am attempting to monitor a new Atlas 700 MHz simulcast system with my TRX's. I am getting horrible reception. Have tried different antennas, it is on an outside antenna now and still not getting much traffic. Not even going digital, it is missing a huge amount of traffic. I am 8 miles from the...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[trentbob]

Does anyone have any ideas as to what I may be doing wrong?

Using a trx1. I monitor NJICS everyday from the Bordentown simulcast site that is directly across from me. I am on the Pennsylvania side right on the river.

I just monitor C3- 10 which is the NJSP Marine Division and C3- 01 division call which is the NJSP Aviation. Occasionally I listen to C3- 02 that is Trenton police dispatch in the clear.

I personally have never been able to get the trx-1 to work on any phase ll simulcast, it also does not work on Bucks County or Burlington County for me.

Maybe it works for others but I've never heard about it. Works fine on SDS series.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Using a trx1. I monitor NJICS everyday from the Bordentown site that is directly across from me. I am on the Pennsylvania side right on the river.

That's because you're only within range of the Bordentown Simulcast site physically in Bordentown. The other (3?) sites aren't a factor for LSM distortion to be an issue on a TRX-1

 

[trentbob]

That's because you're only within range of the Bordentown Simulcast site physically in Bordentown. The other (3?) sites aren't a factor for LSM distortion to be an issue on a TRX-1
View attachment 185901

I don't follow John, right next to the Bordentown site we have the Trenton simulcast site which I could also use if I wanted and when I'm in Trenton that's what I would use. I only listen to one site at a time.

I have tried using it in other locations on NJICS using the closest simulcast site to my location and no go. That goes for the Cape May simulcast site also when I am in the Villas.

Unfortunately my own County as you know has been using Phase ll simulcast for over 10 years, it has never worked on a trx1 for anyone I know.

Can't believe we're debating this age old well known fact 🤣.

Hey if somebody can get it to work using the voodoo that they do do more power to them. As you, of course know, it's location location location. I just never found that location on a trx1.

I don't have a dog in this fight. Trx1 is a neat little radio, still love my PSR 800 as long as I don't need to hear phase ll simulcast.😉

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I don't follow John, right next to the Bordentown site we have the Trenton simulcast site which I could also use if I wanted and when I'm in Trenton that's what I would use. I only listen to one site at a time.

Right but keep in mind that each simulcast cell is composed of several individual sites which all transmit the same transmissions on the same frequency at the same time. I'm saying you may only be within range of one site on the Bordentown Simulcast. When you visit Trenton, you may only be within range of one site on the Trenton Simulcast, so simulcast distortion may not be an issue if you can hear all transmissions clearly on your TRX

 

[jackmail226]

I am trying to get the Marine unit on Lake Hopatcong here in N.J.
The RR database has talkgroups in the library (DEC - 4 digit talkgroups) and I have selected and loaded them using EZscan. I always thought these talkgroups were 5 digits such as 35952, 35120 and 36784 but I see no 5 didit groups in the library...
At this point would also be happy to listen to any traffic on that system as well - just to know it is working.
I have a tower located in Netcong which is very close and another one called Bowling Green which I understand is located in Jefferson Twp. and that is close too.
To try and avoid the simulcast, I have set the scanner up for monitoring each one of those sites individually and still no signals whatsoever.
I know the scanner is working because I use it in other geographic areas on totally different systems and it seems to be working, so I'm thinking that I am missing something in the software process.
As a note - I am almost literaly on the border of Morris and Sussex counties in NJ on the west shore of Lake Hopatcong...

 

[trentbob]

Right but keep in mind that each simulcast cell is composed of several individual sites which all transmit the same transmissions on the same frequency at the same time. I'm saying you may only be within range of one site on the Bordentown Simulcast. When you visit Trenton, you may only be within range of one site on the Trenton Simulcast, so simulcast distortion may not be an issue if you can hear all transmissions clearly on your TRX

Of course each simulcast site consist of sub sites that transmit simultaneously.

That's why the 100 and the 200 that have SDR chips in them receive NJICS flawlessly. By the way they would only work as well as they do because I have a Larson triband on my car and a rooftop antenna on the house so there is no breaking up of signal not receiving the furthest sub site from a simulcast site with the 100 and 200.

From home I could really use either the Trenton simulcast site or the Bordentown simulcast site, the Trenton site is just North of the Bordentown site, likewise when I'm in Trenton I could use the Bordentown simulcast site successfully.

The TRX 1 is P2 capable and not all phase ll is simulcast. The TRX difficulties with phase ll simulcast is a well-known fact.

Occasionally when I am in lower Township, the Cape May simulcast site also works flawlessly on the 100 and 200 but does not work on the trx1.

You know me long enough to know that I do know a little something about this stuff.😆😆😆..

If it makes anybody feel better, the 436 and the 536 doesn't work so great on Phase ll simulcast either, better than a trx1 but not great.

As far as North Jersey goes I'll be the first one to tell you that I never go up there, wouldn't even go close to New York City for anything so what happens up there I don't know, I'm not familiar. Central and South Jersey, I know.

Just a miscommunication here, again I think you know my experience as I do yours.🙂

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Just a miscommunication here, again I think you know my experience as I do yours.🙂

Indeed. Our combined experience and simulcast posting make the RR forums a great place

 

[jackmail226]

Right but keep in mind that each simulcast cell is composed of several individual sites which all transmit the same transmissions on the same frequency at the same time. I'm saying you may only be within range of one site on the Bordentown Simulcast. When you visit Trenton, you may only be within range of one site on the Trenton Simulcast, so simulcast distortion may not be an issue if you can hear all transmissions clearly on your TRX

If my problem was because of simulcast would I hear "some" voices or communications -- or would I hear nothing? I am hearing nothing and thinking the problem has to do with a setting in the program of the trunked system set in the TRX-1.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

If my problem was because of simulcast would I hear "some" voices or communications -- or would I hear nothing?

Either. You may get broken up transmissions or nothing at all. Do you see the TGIDs flash up on the screen?

I always thought these talkgroups were 5 digits such as 35952, 35120 and 36784 but I see no 5 didit groups in the library...

Talkgroups on NJICS are 4 digits. You may be confusing UIDs (unit IDs) with TGIDs

I have a tower located in Netcong which is very close and another one called Bowling Green which I understand is located in Jefferson Twp. and that is close too.
To try and avoid the simulcast, I have set the scanner up for monitoring each one of those sites individually and still no signals whatsoever.

How did you achieve this? Both of these sites are part of the Morris County Simulcast, are they not? So they would transmit the same traffic on the same frequencies at the same time on both sites, unless I'm missing something. There'd be no way to isolate the traffic without a lesser antenna or a directional antenna. Some folks use a paper clip to try and isolate the signal to one tower on the simulcast. Other mitigation methods are listed here

 

[jackmail226]

Of course each simulcast site consist of sub sites that transmit simultaneously.

That's why the 100 and the 200 that have SDR chips in them receive NJICS flawlessly. By the way they would only work as well as they do because I have a Larson triband on my car and a rooftop antenna on the house so there is no breaking up of signal not receiving the furthest sub site from a simulcast site with the 100 and 200.

From home I could really use either the Trenton simulcast site or the Bordentown simulcast site, the Trenton site is just North of the Bordentown site, likewise when I'm in Trenton I could use the Bordentown simulcast site successfully.

The TRX 1 is P2 capable and not all phase ll is simulcast. The TRX difficulties with phase ll simulcast is a well-known fact.

Occasionally when I am in lower Township, the Cape May simulcast site also works flawlessly on the 100 and 200 but does not work on the trx1.

You know me long enough to know that I do know a little something about this stuff.😆😆😆..

If it makes anybody feel better, the 436 and the 536 doesn't work so great on Phase ll simulcast either, better than a trx1 but not great.

As far as North Jersey goes I'll be the first one to tell you that I never go up there, wouldn't even go close to New York City for anything so what happens up there I don't know, I'm not familiar. Central and South Jersey, I know.

Just a miscommunication here, again I think you know my experience as I do yours.🙂

Hi,
Do you know if the TRX-1 problem with simulcast would appear as distorted signals and ocassionaly hearing something even if it is not sounding good - or - would it result in complete silence. I have tried to focus on the (2) sites closest to me and avoid the simulcast but receive nothing on this system at all. My thinking is that I am missing something that needs to be done after I bring in the data from the library and send it to the radio.

 

[jackmail226]

Either. You may get broken up transmissions or nothing at all. Do you see the TGIDs flash up on the screen?

Talkgroups on NJICS are 4 digits. You may be confusing UIDs (unit IDs) with TGIDs


How did you achieve this? Both of these sites are part of the Morris County Simulcast, are they not? So they would transmit the same traffic on the same frequencies at the same time on both sites, unless I'm missing something

No TGID's at all. Just scans and scans no stopping and no voices.
I programmed just the Netcong site by locking out all other (37? sites). So in this case my scanner, I assume is going through just Netcong frequencies. I tried to focus just on the marine talk groups, heard nothing then enabled all the talk groups - still hear nothing. Perhaps disabling all the other sites is part of my problem, don't know.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I programmed just the Netcong site by locking out all other (37? sites).

Are you referring to NJICS as your subject line seems to suggest or another system?

Is this the correct simulcast or no? There is no single Netcong site that isn't a part of said simulcast

1 (1)

058 (3A)

Morris County Simulcast

Morris, NJ

769.20625

769.93125

770.16875

773.33125c

773.53125c

773.78125c

774.08125c

 

[jackmail226]

Yes, the system I am trying to get is the NJICS.

I have tried to scan only netcong, then only bowling green and finally only Randolph and no signals at all.

Then I have tried eliminating all the other sites leaving the three mentioned above active but still no voice or anything on the display at all...

Is that the wrong way to do this?

I don't believe the library brings in the Morris county simulcast by that name.

Perhaps I should create it myself from the data on the Morris County simulcast?

 

[trentbob]

Hi,
Do you know if the TRX-1 problem with simulcast would appear as distorted signals and ocassionaly hearing something even if it is not sounding good - or - would it result in complete silence. I have tried to focus on the (2) sites closest to me and avoid the simulcast but receive nothing on this system at all. My thinking is that I am missing something that needs to be done after I bring in the data from the library and send it to the radio.

Yes I can help you with that, first of all keep in mind when digital scanners first came out in 2003. Unidens offerings were muffled, improved with firmware, GRE digital scanners were clear as a bell. GRE made scanners for Radio Shack. They opened up shop in China around 2002 and had domestic domain issues and were forced to close in 2012 leaving China and out of California they serviced their scannersl.

In 2014 they sold the company to Whistler Lock Stock and Barrel.

They took the GRE psr800 and put a keyboard on it and added firmware improvements with some employees who came from GRE and eventually it became the trx-1.

There were more Motorola type ll smartzone digital systems and the GRE and eventually Whistler radios were overwhelmingly clearer with better modulation. The Radio Shack Pro 96 handheld put the bc250d unidens digital handheld offering to shame.

Eventually Digital radio advanced to simulcast. Phase 1 simulcast sounded broken, distorted with missed transmissions on Whistler radios, phase 2 simulcast you usually or I usually heard nothing. Occasionally I would get a word maybe one in every 20. I have to say that one word was crystal clear with great audio. LOL

There were gimmicks that were used with Uniden and Whistler radios like paper clips, subpar antennas, drilling holes in used paint cans and put the rubber duck in the hole, directional antennas, anything to reduce or impair reception to isolate just one tower of a simulcast system.

They were gimmicks, nothing worked, there were adjustments that I'm not even going to mention, they didn't work. People swore by them but we knew better.

So for me, my experience was not broken transmissions or distortion it was just hearing nothing at all except for an occasional word albeit, crystal clear.

I was disappointed myself because I really like the design of the trx-1 after I removed the rubber spare tire case, tossed it in the drawer and never used it again. I was disappointed because that was the radio I wanted to use for my Phase 2 simulcast County. small compact with a keyboard and display that I liked.

Around 2015 everybody knew then somebody was going to have to come up with a scanner that clearly received simulcast transmissions.

 

[trentbob]

Either. You may get broken up transmissions or nothing at all. Do you see the TGIDs flash up on the screen?

Talkgroups on NJICS are 4 digits. You may be confusing UIDs (unit IDs) with TGIDs


How did you achieve this? Both of these sites are part of the Morris County Simulcast, are they not? So they would transmit the same traffic on the same frequencies at the same time on both sites, unless I'm missing something. There'd be no way to isolate the traffic without a lesser antenna or a directional antenna. Some folks use a paper clip to try and isolate the signal to one tower on the simulcast. Other mitigation methods are listed here

Sorry John I didn't see your post until after I wrote mine, I wouldn't have put in all of the mitigation methods to impair reception to isolate to one tower.

 

[GTR8000]

I have a tower located in Netcong which is very close and another one called Bowling Green which I understand is located in Jefferson Twp. and that is close too.

I programmed just the Netcong site by locking out all other (37? sites). So in this case my scanner, I assume is going through just Netcong frequencies.

I have tried to scan only netcong, then only bowling green and finally only Randolph and no signals at all.

Then I have tried eliminating all the other sites leaving the three mentioned above active but still no voice or anything on the display at all...

Is that the wrong way to do this?

I don't believe the library brings in the Morris county simulcast by that name.

Perhaps I should create it myself from the data on the Morris County simulcast?

If you're still seeing individual sites for Netcong, Bowling Green, and Randolph, your library and/or scanner programming is extremely out of date. Make triple sure that you are downloading and importing the very latest list of sites and talkgroups for the NJICS system. Make sure what is in the software and your scanner matches what is in the database as far as the exact site names. The three you keep mentioning are long gone as individual sites and have all been merged into a single Morris County Simulcast cell.

PS - The 5 digit talkgroup IDs were from the old 800 MHz NJSP system, which is also long gone. The NJICS system is the only one you should be programming into your scanner, and all of the talkgroups (with the exception of Cedar Grove) are 4 digits.

 

[jackmail226]

If you're still seeing individual sites for Netcong, Bowling Green, and Randolph, your library and/or scanner programming is extremely out of date. Make triple sure that you are downloading and importing the very latest list of sites and talkgroups for the NJICS system. Make sure what is in the software and your scanner matches what is in the database as far as the exact site names. The three you keep mentioning are long gone as individual sites and have all been merged into a single Morris County Simulcast cell.

PS - The 5 digit talkgroup IDs were from the old 800 MHz NJSP system, which is also long gone. The NJICS system is the only one you should be programming into your scanner, and all of the talkgroups (with the exception of Cedar Grove) are 4 digits.

Thanks for that information. I wonder if it is possible that the library for TRX-1 and TRX-2 are not up to date because of the changes and transition with the Whistler group. I am using the data and frequencies found in the library for EZscan software (which I have attempted to update in the software twice this week) but maybe I should be scruitinizing frequencies and other details with what is listed in the RR database/website?
I was hoping to isolate my programming one of the towers would help overcome the inability of the TRX-1 to deal with Simulcast systems. I'm not sure how to do that if in my area there is only the listing for the Simulcast (Morris County) and not the individual towers. I thought in my research that we had one really close (Netcong) that i could try to isolate so I would not have issues with distortion etc...
I wonder if anyone in my area (Hopatcong Borough) is having luck and found any successful techniques with models that are not simulcast "friendly"