New talk of encryption in Tucson

[ScanRafael]

Tucson police seek $1M in high-tech gear to curb street racing​

Encrypting pubic safety radios​

The city manager’s office proposed its departments move toward encrypting their radio feeds, as nearby jurisdictions like those in Phoenix have done.
There is currently no additional cost required to encrypt its radios, the city says, as they recently purchased new mobile and portable radios “that come with this encryption technology available.” Street racers have access access to city communications and are “able to stay one step ahead,” the city said. The city expects to have its new radios fully deployed by June 2024.

 

[kd7eir]

There is a per-radio per-month fee that Tucson will have to pay to PCWIN if they want encryption. Just having the license for encryption from Motorola is not the only cost.

 

[mbnv992]

Huh. Wonder what their new radios are ? Gonna guess and say APX8000’s

 

[skidplate]

Will PCSO go encrypted also? Seems likely.

 

[Ravenfalls]

Motorola NEXT replaced APX series. Many agencies use APX7000 like Phx Fire.

If Tucson Detectives travel or air transport to California & the trunking coverage is out range , LTE kicks in. Some E AZ counties use Harris with LTE gap coverage.

 

[GlobalNorth]

Street racing has been an ongoing problem off and on since the late 1940s and a bunch of very expensive mobile and portable radios are not going to solve it.

When I was in metro Phoenix, many weekends were occupied with AZDPS, Phoenix PD, and other agencies going after street racers on the Loops 101, 202, and 303; the SR51, the US60, Interstates 10 and 17, Sun Valley Parkway, etc. They had UC vehicles, assigned channels, an assigned dispatcher, and Firebird/Ranger AC available. I still heard them racing into the early morning hours.

AZ chiefs and sheriffs do not want to engage in SoCal style pursuits, there are never enough cops to assign to deal with the issue, the Legislature won't enforce forfeitures on racing vehicles, and magistrates/JPs, and judges won't apply adequate and uniform legal penalties.

This is nothing more than agencies wanting new gear to build out their fiefs and promising that the gear will magically solve the problem.

 

[mothertrucker]

TPD & PSCO can easily switch to any LE Common frequency on the PCWIN system that the street racers are not smart enough monitor when they need organize themselves to combat street racing.
Any talk from city or county officials about across the board encryption on all frequencies is nothing more than an attempt to hide their operations in fear of the general public actually finding out what they really do.

 

[kd7eir]

Yes, it appears that Tucson has been taking lessons from Phoenix. TPD cannot point to even ONE incident of ANY case being compromised or even delayed due to their radios not being encrypted.

 

[dave3825]

Street racers have access access to city communications and are “able to stay one step ahead,”

Simple solution. Set up a enc tg to combat the street racers.

 

[Foresigt]

The fact that there are 5 people streaming TPD couldn't have anything to do with their decision to encrypt could it?

 

[oracavon]

Mayor Romero and City Council approve $22M for new communications radios​

So the real story here is that Motorola is discontinuing support of the current radios, so the city has to get new ones. The city chose to go with APX NEXT radios as the newest available, with a 15-year projected lifespan. There was no mention of encryption until now, and at this point, it's only a proposal by the the city manager's office that encryption be used after the new radios are deployed. This suggestion isn't coming from TPD, and there is no reported indication of their view on the matter. They may or may not decide to adopt the idea.

 

[mmckenna]

The city chose to go with APX NEXT radios as the newest available, with a 15-year projected lifespan.

15 years is being extremely optimistic. Usually public safety radios get 5-10 years. There's a lot of questions about the durability of the APX-Next with the big display and availability of Android updates for it in the long term.

15 years does spread the cost out enough to make it palatable.

 

[mbnv992]

I’m pretty sure some departments are still getting in brand new 6000BN / 8000 APX’s from Motorola. To my knowledge, they are not discontinued yet and probably won’t be for at least a few more years.

I’ve seen and used an APX “Next” before and IMO - definitely not a public safety - “patrol officer” radio. This is more meant for a LT or Brass. I would not want a radio that looks like my iPhone as my sole line of communication. Sure they can say the glass is scratch-proof, etc etc still doesn’t change the fact that it looks like some millennial that sits behind a desk and has never seen field work designed the thing. I’ll take my APX8000H anyday of the week over a Next.

Again- just IMO.

 

[mmckenna]

I’m pretty sure some departments are still getting in brand new 6000BN / 8000 APX’s from Motorola. To my knowledge, they are not discontinued yet and probably won’t be for at least a few more years.

They are still available. Almost bought some for work. We have a sergeant that is retiring this week, and he purchased one for himself as a retirement gift. He's a ham, so he'll get a lot of use out of it.

I’ve seen and used an APX “Next” before and IMO - definitely not a public safety - “patrol officer” radio. This is more meant for a LT or Brass. I would not want a radio that looks like my iPhone as my sole line of communication. Sure they can say the glass is scratch-proof, etc etc still doesn’t change the fact that it looks like some millennial that sits behind a desk and has never seen field work designed the thing. I’ll take my APX8000H anyday of the week over a Next.

Again- just IMO.

Yeah, I think most of us on the professional side are waiting to see how they last in the real world. There are other agencies that have bought them, but they've only had them a year or so.

And most of us don't want to deal with Android puking all over itself.

 

[GlobalNorth]

Simple solution. Set up a enc tg to combat the street racers.

This has been done over and over, yet, it doesn't work, See post #6 as to why.

 

[kd7eir]

There is a per-radio per-month fee that Tucson will have to pay to PCWIN if they want encryption. Just having the license for encryption from Motorola is not the only cost.

It looks like PCWIN got rid of the encryption fee.

 

[PACNWDude]

As mentioned above, APX6000/8000's are still available. Been purchasing them for fire use myself. The NEXT is too expensive, too large of a display, and there is just no need in my own use case to justify that over the APX6/8k units for actual use.

When the NEXT first came out, the whole programming over the air was also an issue, as my employer has trouble paying their /\/\ bill each month, which would mean a possibly bricked device as a result.

For Trbo sites, we have also held at XPR7550e over the R7 and Trbo Ion for the same reasons.

As for Arizona overall, interop requirements are pushing the hardware needs, and TOPAZ also influences that. Lots of money/hardware being purchased and moved around.

 

[GlobalNorth]

As for Arizona overall, interop requirements are pushing the hardware needs, and TOPAZ also influences that. Lots of money/hardware being purchased and moved around.

In Maricopa County alone, there are AZWINS, TOPAZ, RWC, and MC - P25 as sole systems.
Not a lot of interoperability there for the end user.

 

[Foresigt]

In Maricopa County alone, there are AZWINS, TOPAZ, RWC, and MC - P25 as sole systems.
Not a lot of interoperability there for the end user.

Not sure I understand your comment. Though there are separate systems in Maricopa County, all off them have interop channels and they all have the RWC interop channels as well. There are something like 100 channels amongst them. PCWINS, not so much.

 

[kd7eir]

PCWIN has 35 interop channels.