A Coalition of Chicago Based Media Organizations Joins Together in Regards to CPD's Encryption

[Citywide173]

There is nothing baffling about it. When there is a fire, most FD people would like nothing more than to have no one there except FD, PD and EMS- no crowd of on-lookers, no "wanna-bes", and no news people to make even more people think they should be right there at the time.

I have to agree with Gary. As a fire scene photographer, I have been welcomed on scene in the majority of places that I have shot fires. That includes Boston, FDNY, Memphis, Detroit, Camden, Philadelphia and a bunch of others. My photos have been in most of the fire service journals and I always offer to send the images to anyone in the department that is interested.

What I have a bigger problem with is my own agency. In Boston, police, fire and EMS each maintain their own systems and if one was going to encrypt, it is almost a certainty that they would not share the encryption key with the other two out of concern for security. It may not be a first amedment issue and it is a privilege to be able to monitor, but if I am responding into a scene, I want to be able to hear (I feel it is my RIGHT as a co-responder) what's being said by the other agencies. More than once I've heard officers reporting active shots fired and held at a safe location, only to get the update from my dispatcher several minutes later, when I would have already driven into the scene.

 

[garys]

Ed's information is more current than mine, but based on my years of experience in that same system he's right. We both know a person who would be very resistant to the idea of sharing encryption keys with anyone, including his assistant.

In a similar vein, in Baldwin County, AL the Gulf Shores PD is completely encrypted. More than once they've had a pursuit into nearby Orange Beach, but until the statewide system added an interoperability TG, other agencies had no idea what was going on because Gulf Shores refused to share their encryption key.

Encryption adds a layer of complexity and vulnerability to communications.

 

[ILjim]

Mayor's race update, lightfoot is out. We will see how the encryption issue is handled with a new mayor.

Don't hold your breath. Sure, if you want to program in the encrypted Zones in anticipation of a reversal (as I have), then go ahead. But don't expect miracles, and certainly don't expect any changes to occur overnight once the new mayor gets into office

 

[GlobalNorth]

David Brown, CPD superintendent, announced his resignation today.

Hope for the best!

Chicago Police Supt. David Brown resigns

Every one of the eight mayoral challengers vowed to fire Brown as their first order of business, including the two remaining candidates in the April 4 runoff, Paul Vallas and Brandon Johnson.

chicago.suntimes.com

 

[garys]

I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. I don't know anything about the two candidates left, but since it's Chicago I don't expect them to have views much different than Lori Lightfoot.

Don't hold your breath. Sure, if you want to program in the encrypted Zones in anticipation of a reversal (as I have), then go ahead. But don't expect miracles, and certainly don't expect any changes to occur overnight once the new mayor gets into office

 

[Elpato]

Good riddance to both..
Encryption is gonna be here to stay.. they already have a 30 min delay on their zones, not sure what more you want.. its a crap ton more than what the suburban agencies are doing.

 

[ILjim]

Good riddance to both..

Encryption is gonna be here to stay.. they already have a 30 min delay on their zones, not sure what more you want.. its a crap ton more than what the suburban agencies are doing.

100% agree, especially with your last point. At least CPD can be listened to one way or another. Obviously, I and many others here prefer to listen live via our own scanners. I forgot who said this (maybe it was you Elpato?), but someone made the basic yet true point that many simply don't care about the suburbs.

While not much happens here in the North Shore area, I still don't like that my local PD (and the others) is ENC. I'm not optimistic that I'll get Wilmette PD or Glenview 911 to provide a delayed stream for the Net-24B SC21 Talkgroup. However, at this point, I'll take whatever I can get. I'm fine with listening to CPD via Broadcastify, and as for my area, I'll just keep listening to ISP, area Fire Depts, and whatever else is out there.

 

[Chicago2210]

100% agree, especially with your last point. At least CPD can be listened to one way or another. Obviously, I and many others here prefer to listen live via our own scanners. I forgot who said this (maybe it was you Elpato?), but someone made the basic yet true point that many simply don't care about the suburbs.

While not much happens here in the North Shore area, I still don't like that my local PD (and the others) is ENC. I'm not optimistic that I'll get Wilmette PD or Glenview 911 to provide a delayed stream for the Net-24B SC21 Talkgroup. However, at this point, I'll take whatever I can get. I'm fine with listening to CPD via Broadcastify, and as for my area, I'll just keep listening to ISP, area Fire Depts, and whatever else is out there.

I will likely be writing to my state legislators about amending the SAFE-T act to address these issues. With the police reform/transparency movement not going away any time soon this is an opportunity to address the encryption/transparency issues. And yes I do agree that listing to police and fire comms is a privilege not a right.

 

[apco25]

You have no constituional right to listen to encrypted communications, nor does a government entity have to remain in the clear for your listening pleasure. There is no limitation on YOUR speech by the government (1st) nor is the government seizing you by preventing you from listening (4th) by using encryption. File a FOIA if you want to know.

 

[werinshades]

As a result of the abuse of the 35 minute delayed feed, changes are being discussed. The recent police officer shot in the 8th District, the "misidentifying" of the officer that was shot being female, the unauthorized use by the media of this audio recording, have brought about some unforeseen issues. Colleagues and family knowing this female officer's beat, caused a panic that no one should go through. The "Twitter kids" also posted that this was a female police officer , media picked up on it, ran with it, then went to Facebook and that was it. It's beyond me why anyone would put this "unverified information" out, knowing it would cause a panic. We brought this all on ourselves, and now can't even show restraint on a feed provided by the department. Some have really screwed this once very informative hobby up because they have to be "important" in their eyes.

 

[Citywide173]

As a result of the abuse of the 35 minute delayed feed, changes are being discussed. The recent police officer shot in the 8th District, the "misidentifying" of the officer that was shot being female, the unauthorized use by the media of this audio recording, have brought about some unforeseen issues. Colleagues and family knowing this female officer's beat, caused a panic that no one should go through. The "Twitter kids" also posted that this was a female police officer , media picked up on it, ran with it, then went to Facebook and that was it. It's beyond me why anyone would put this "unverified information" out, knowing it would cause a panic. We brought this all on ourselves, and now can't even show restraint on a feed provided by the department. Some have really screwed this once very informative hobby up because they have to be "important" in their eyes.

You are absolutely right, no-one should go through that, however, is there a use policy on the feeds? It would be the same as running with the information if it was broadcast in the clear. The media outlets have an incumbent responsibility to confirm through a second source, but I can see where someone would drop the ball using the "well, if it's delayed 30 minutes, they must be sure what they're broadcasting is accurate." I just don't understand how the term "unauthorized" applies here.

 

[werinshades]

You are absolutely right, no-one should go through that, however, is there a use policy on the feeds? It would be the same as running with the information if it was broadcast in the clear. The media outlets have an incumbent responsibility to confirm through a second source, but I can see where someone would drop the ball using the "well, if it's delayed 30 minutes, they must be sure what they're broadcasting is accurate." I just don't understand how the term "unauthorized" applies here.

They can take the entire feed off line, no "policy issues" to be concerned about.

 

[werinshades]

As a result of the abuse of the 35 minute delayed feed, changes are being discussed. The recent police officer shot in the 8th District, the "misidentifying" of the officer that was shot being female, the unauthorized use by the media of this audio recording, have brought about some unforeseen issues. Colleagues and family knowing this female officer's beat, caused a panic that no one should go through. The "Twitter kids" also posted that this was a female police officer , media picked up on it, ran with it, then went to Facebook and that was it. It's beyond me why anyone would put this "unverified information" out, knowing it would cause a panic. We brought this all on ourselves, and now can't even show restraint on a feed provided by the department. Some have really screwed this once very informative hobby up because they have to be "important" in their eyes.

You are absolutely right, no-one should go through that, however, is there a use policy on the feeds? It would be the same as running with the information if it was broadcast in the clear. The media outlets have an incumbent responsibility to confirm through a second source, but I can see where someone would drop the ball using the "well, if it's delayed 30 minutes, they must be sure what they're broadcasting is accurate." I just don't understand how the term "unauthorized" applies here.

I was reminded that the offender was reported as being dead and shot in the head, which was partially true. Shot yes...dead no.

 

[ctiller]

As a result of the abuse of the 35 minute delayed feed, changes are being discussed. The recent police officer shot in the 8th District, the "misidentifying" of the officer that was shot being female, the unauthorized use by the media of this audio recording, have brought about some unforeseen issues. Colleagues and family knowing this female officer's beat, caused a panic that no one should go through. The "Twitter kids" also posted that this was a female police officer , media picked up on it, ran with it, then went to Facebook and that was it. It's beyond me why anyone would put this "unverified information" out, knowing it would cause a panic. We brought this all on ourselves, and now can't even show restraint on a feed provided by the department. Some have really screwed this once very informative hobby up because they have to be "important" in their eyes.

it's definitely terrible, but again..this will happen whether there is encryption or online feeds or not. People just post crap onto social media. And these days the main stream media trolls social media for scoops. we've seen it time and again. I remember when an "unarmed man" was shot in Charlotte and everyone put forth on social media that he had a library book in his hand which was then taken as 100% truth. Later on the police showed the pics of the gun he had, but the damage was done and the riots had started.

 

[werinshades]

it's definitely terrible, but again..this will happen whether there is encryption or online feeds or not. People just post crap onto social media. And these days the main stream media trolls social media for scoops. we've seen it time and again. I remember when an "unarmed man" was shot in Charlotte and everyone put forth on social media that he had a library book in his hand which was then taken as 100% truth. Later on the police showed the pics of the gun he had, but the damage was done and the riots had started.

Unfortunately a new generation has emerged, and try to be the "cool kids" or "have to be first" kind of an odd competition. I've frequently posted about "hearing vs. listening". Hearing an initial dispatch, that doesn't always tell the real story, and that's when "listening" should take over. My neighborhood Facebook group get's filled with "anyone know what happened" because someone posted a "shots fired from the shot spotter" that ended up being nothing even close. It's worse now with posting citywide simulcasts and the Zones are too busy to send out updates at times. Rogue radios, listening on cell phones, officer safety are always mentioned when CPD gets asked. After this latest fiasco, really can't blame them for shutting it down, or going off line during high profile incidents.

Identical to what happened there, the same anti-police sentiment is just an incident away. Tweeting that an offender was shot in the head by CPD, is dead, and the hospital they transported to is irresponsible. They must be ADHD, can't just sit back, fold your arms and listen.

As I type this, it would appear Zone 4 will be encrypted by tomorrow morning. I'm seeing P25 NAC with encryption on the 460.150 frequency. So once again, another one heading down the Encryption cesspool. Zone 11 in the Rogers Park area will be the last to go, and then on to the citywides. I'm at the point now where I don't share pertinent information publicly for the fear it will become the next "Twitter target", that leads to encryption. It's another bad day for CPD, and I'm sure other departments are watching carefully to implement it next.

 

[ctiller]

Unfortunately a new generation has emerged, and try to be the "cool kids" or "have to be first" kind of an odd competition. I've frequently posted about "hearing vs. listening". Hearing an initial dispatch, that doesn't always tell the real story, and that's when "listening" should take over. My neighborhood Facebook group get's filled with "anyone know what happened" because someone posted a "shots fired from the shot spotter" that ended up being nothing even close. It's worse now with posting citywide simulcasts and the Zones are too busy to send out updates at times. Rogue radios, listening on cell phones, officer safety are always mentioned when CPD gets asked. After this latest fiasco, really can't blame them for shutting it down, or going off line during high profile incidents.

Identical to what happened there, the same anti-police sentiment is just an incident away. Tweeting that an offender was shot in the head by CPD, is dead, and the hospital they transported to is irresponsible. They must be ADHD, can't just sit back, fold your arms and listen.

As I type this, it would appear Zone 4 will be encrypted by tomorrow morning. I'm seeing P25 NAC with encryption on the 460.150 frequency. So once again, another one heading down the Encryption cesspool. Zone 11 in the Rogers Park area will be the last to go, and then on to the citywides. I'm at the point now where I don't share pertinent information publicly for the fear it will become the next "Twitter target", that leads to encryption. It's another bad day for CPD, and I'm sure other departments are watching carefully to implement it next.

I agree with all of what you're saying here, but encryption and going dark won't fix it. That's like putting a bandaid on an arterial bleed. It'll slow some things down maybe, but you're just going to have people posting half truths or made up BS that will be passed off as the truth. It's a different world now. Even if the PD has a "real time" FB or twitter feed, the public is distrustful. The best solution to this is to actually allow real time access so people can hear what's really going on.

 

[werinshades]

The best solution to this is to actually allow real time access so people can hear what's really going on.

Unfortunately, some of us are to blame for departments encrypting, and the tend continues. I would like to see all departments that have encrypted reopen their dispatch communications too, but we just need to police our own hobby first.

 

[apco25]

Encryption will fix all of it, period. Real time access is not the solution and was merely a by product of older technology. I cannot wait for implementation of LLA Link Layer Authentication and ECC Encrypted Control Channels.

 

[apco25]

You as the public don't have a right or need to know in real time. FILE A FOIA for the recordings.

 

[werinshades]

Well apparently, encryption isn't deterring the "bad guys with scanners." All committed within encrypted Zone areas:

Chicago police issue crime alert as video shows robbery outside Brighton Park auto shop

Concerns are growing after a series of armed robberies in the Brighton Park neighborhood.

abc7chicago.com