A Coalition of Chicago Based Media Organizations Joins Together in Regards to CPD's Encryption

[KI5IRE]

Encryption will fix all of it, period. Real time access is not the solution and was merely a by product of older technology. I cannot wait for implementation of LLA Link Layer Authentication and ECC Encrypted Control Channels.

You as the public don't have a right or need to know in real time. FILE A FOIA for the recordings.

Encryption may fix a portion of it, but it definitely won't fix all of it. And correct, the public doesn't necessarily have a right to know or listen in real time either. But the public does have a reasonable expectation (or a right) to know what is happening in their community in a timely manner so they can hold their leaders accountable if they are not doing their jobs and are just in office collecting a paycheck. Just imagine if there was complete encryption and very limited public access to information about crime incidents during the majority of the Lori Lightfoot administration in Chicago these past few years...or in NYC...no one would have heard anything about how bad the crime ACTUALLY is, because no one in government wants to jeopardize their job by making the leaders look bad. The public would likely only have a very filtered perception that the administration wants the public to see. Kinda like how many encrypted agencies do now, posting many pictures of their officers having positive interactions with the public (as they should, the community needs to see that side of policing as well), but nowhere near as many posts about crimes that are happening (not just incidents that might make an agency look bad to the public).

Several agencies in the DFW area have fully encrypted all fire/EMS and LE comms, and some of those agencies still deal with these same issues of incorrect information spreading regularly. Mostly due to the Facebook and Twitter people who see a 3 cop cars with flashing lights while their out driving around and either tweet a photo about it or go live and make something up and say "i think someone got shot by the cops etc." and it's actually just a traffic stop or some petty crime and no shooting.

As someone who works in the journalism industry professionally, and has for several years, the whole "file a FOIA" is a bit hard to do when we have no way of knowing something happened that we might want to FOIA for, and what to actually file a FOIA for (i.e. basic incident details so they can fulfill the request in a timely manner). Several agencies who have implemented full encryption don't tweet serious incidents, send out daily blotters anymore or send press releases out unless someone from the press inquires, if their lucky enough to be tipped off about something happening.

Some of the larger agencies are much better at working with us and have active calls platforms available for the media and/or will occasionally tweet out serious incidents during business hours (if we're lucky and its an agency with a good PIO, they may tweet some things after business hours that they are notified of). Many don't tweet anything at all and will send a press release out next business day. Some larger agencies don't even do any of those.

Some of the serious crimes we used to cover, we sometimes never find anything out from officials on anymore until months after when they have no leads, the case is about to go cold and they are ready to finally send out a 480×360 black and white, out of focus surveillance camera shot from 100 yards away, taken off the CCTV monitor on an Android from 2012, begging for someone to call in with a lead on a half a year old case and asking us to do a story about it so they can finally close the case and then tweet out how they finally made an arrest. Sometimes we get tips to our newsroom from family members or the victims themselves of a crime or accident, after they made a report to police, and they will ask if we have any information on it before the police ever say anything about it, and then once they know we're interested because we reach out to confirm the details we're told, they'll finally say something about it. You'd be surprised how many cases no one told police details about because they didn't know they had witnessed a crime or a portion of a crime until they saw something about it on the news...

My point, there needs to be a standard that if an agency opts for complete encryption of their communications systems, there are more avenues of transparency of information made available to the general public, or at least the press. Yes, FOIA requests are a way of transparency, but far from ideal, when the response time often depends on when the PIO gets around to responding, an agency's policy and/or state/federal statutes (this can vary between anywhere from minutes to hours, days, weeks, months or possibly even years...).

 

[ctiller]

exactly. encryption will probably cause LE more problems because people can just make up whatever they want and put that out to social media. without encryption someone could say "well that's not the way it went down and I know because I was listening on the scanner". Now the police will put out a statement, but since a lot of the public just doesn't trust these reports directly from LE the riots will begin. I thought "Community Oriented Policing" was supposed to result in more transparency-not less.

 

[mmckenna]

exactly. encryption will probably cause LE more problems because people can just make up whatever they want and put that out to social media.

They do that now without encryption. All anyone has to claim is that it happens off the radio: on cell phones, behind the coffee shop, etc. Stupid people will always believe what they want to believe, and no amount of truth or proof will sway their opinion.

without encryption someone could say "well that's not the way it went down and I know because I was listening on the scanner".

Random dude with a scanner is not an authoritative source. Random dude with a scanner can make up stuff, misunderstand radio calls, not be able to read MDT traffic, not hear cell phone calls, and still come to incorrect conclusions. What you hear over the radio isn't necessarily indicative of what is really happening. There's a lot of things that go on that you won't hear on the radio. Assuming hearing radio traffic gives you the full story isn't reality.
Again, if someone wants to believe something enough, they'll find proof. That's what the internet is good for. Fish for only the data that supports ones opinions. Suddenly those opinions become indisputable facts.

Now the police will put out a statement, but since a lot of the public just doesn't trust these reports directly from LE the riots will begin.

It happens with or without encryption.

I thought "Community Oriented Policing" was supposed to result in more transparency-not less.

Transparency can happen in many ways. Scanner listeners are not an authoritative source. There are much more efficient ways to have transparency. It won't matter how transparent an agency is, those that don't want to trust them never will. There will always be people that find alternate facts to suit their needs. Truth no longer has anything to do with it.

 

[chrismol1]

exactly. encryption will probably cause LE more problems because people can just make up whatever they want and put that out to social media. without encryption someone could say "well that's not the way it went down and I know because I was listening on the scanner". Now the police will put out a statement, but since a lot of the public just doesn't trust these reports directly from LE the riots will begin. I thought "Community Oriented Policing" was supposed to result in more transparency-not less.

I was surprised to hear this in action one day and then the press release they put out and repeated on local news. There was a high risk incident that involved a child. I heard discussions of a child before and during the incident but when the press release came out they claimed they didn't know anything of a child being involved but if they released info they knew there was a child involved the risky incident it likely would not have made them look good. They release body cam and some viewers noticed and called them out when officers immediatly went to wher the child was that they claimed they didn't know about

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Encryption may fix a portion of it, but it definitely won't fix all of it. And correct, the public doesn't necessarily have a right to know or listen in real time either. But the public does have a reasonable expectation (or a right) to know what is happening in their community in a timely manner so they can hold their leaders accountable if they are not doing their jobs and are just in office collecting a paycheck. Just imagine if there was complete encryption and very limited public access to information about crime incidents during the majority of the Lori Lightfoot administration in Chicago these past few years...or in NYC...no one would have heard anything about how bad the crime ACTUALLY is, because no one in government wants to jeopardize their job by making the leaders look bad. The public would likely only have a very filtered perception that the administration wants the public to see. Kinda like how many encrypted agencies do now, posting many pictures of their officers having positive interactions with the public (as they should, the community needs to see that side of policing as well), but nowhere near as many posts about crimes that are happening (not just incidents that might make an agency look bad to the public).

Several agencies in the DFW area have fully encrypted all fire/EMS and LE comms, and some of those agencies still deal with these same issues of incorrect information spreading regularly. Mostly due to the Facebook and Twitter people who see a 3 cop cars with flashing lights while their out driving around and either tweet a photo about it or go live and make something up and say "i think someone got shot by the cops etc." and it's actually just a traffic stop or some petty crime and no shooting.

As someone who works in the journalism industry professionally, and has for several years, the whole "file a FOIA" is a bit hard to do when we have no way of knowing something happened that we might want to FOIA for, and what to actually file a FOIA for (i.e. basic incident details so they can fulfill the request in a timely manner). Several agencies who have implemented full encryption don't tweet serious incidents, send out daily blotters anymore or send press releases out unless someone from the press inquires, if their lucky enough to be tipped off about something happening.

Some of the larger agencies are much better at working with us and have active calls platforms available for the media and/or will occasionally tweet out serious incidents during business hours (if we're lucky and its an agency with a good PIO, they may tweet some things after business hours that they are notified of). Many don't tweet anything at all and will send a press release out next business day. Some larger agencies don't even do any of those.

Some of the serious crimes we used to cover, we sometimes never find anything out from officials on anymore until months after when they have no leads, the case is about to go cold and they are ready to finally send out a 480×360 black and white, out of focus surveillance camera shot from 100 yards away, taken off the CCTV monitor on an Android from 2012, begging for someone to call in with a lead on a half a year old case and asking us to do a story about it so they can finally close the case and then tweet out how they finally made an arrest. Sometimes we get tips to our newsroom from family members or the victims themselves of a crime or accident, after they made a report to police, and they will ask if we have any information on it before the police ever say anything about it, and then once they know we're interested because we reach out to confirm the details we're told, they'll finally say something about it. You'd be surprised how many cases no one told police details about because they didn't know they had witnessed a crime or a portion of a crime until they saw something about it on the news...

My point, there needs to be a standard that if an agency opts for complete encryption of their communications systems, there are more avenues of transparency of information made available to the general public, or at least the press. Yes, FOIA requests are a way of transparency, but far from ideal, when the response time often depends on when the PIO gets around to responding, an agency's policy and/or state/federal statutes (this can vary between anywhere from minutes to hours, days, weeks, months or possibly even years...).

My sheriff's office's dispatch channel is encrypted, but they always give daily news releases on their website including wanted subjects and things like that. The main reason they're encrypted is because a lot of repeat offenders here have scanners and a lot of times they're walking around with a warrant or two under their name. My PD was planning to implement full time encryption too, once they switch to MARCS finally, but I asked them to consider doing what the Ohio State Highway Patrol does which is have encryption available individually on the dispatch talkgroup and fully encrypt the tactical talkgroup. That way, the dispatch channel is mostly clear and they each have the option to encrypt whenever they need it, and the tac is completely secure. I like that idea the best, but I haven't heard anything more about their plan yet.

 

[ctiller]

They do that now without encryption. All anyone has to claim is that it happens off the radio: on cell phones, behind the coffee shop, etc. Stupid people will always believe what they want to believe, and no amount of truth or proof will sway their opinion.



Random dude with a scanner is not an authoritative source. Random dude with a scanner can make up stuff, misunderstand radio calls, not be able to read MDT traffic, not hear cell phone calls, and still come to incorrect conclusions. What you hear over the radio isn't necessarily indicative of what is really happening. There's a lot of things that go on that you won't hear on the radio. Assuming hearing radio traffic gives you the full story isn't reality.
Again, if someone wants to believe something enough, they'll find proof. That's what the internet is good for. Fish for only the data that supports ones opinions. Suddenly those opinions become indisputable facts.



It happens with or without encryption.



Transparency can happen in many ways. Scanner listeners are not an authoritative source. There are much more efficient ways to have transparency. It won't matter how transparent an agency is, those that don't want to trust them never will. There will always be people that find alternate facts to suit their needs. Truth no longer has anything to do with it.

Honestly these days a LOT of people trust the "random scanner dude" on FB posting vs. what the actual police put out. It's a new world out here and unfortunately blocking people out from info will just sow further distrust. I'm very pro law enforcement, but this trend has me raising my eyebrow even.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

Honestly these days a LOT of people trust the "random scanner dude" on FB posting vs. what the actual police put out. It's a new world out here and unfortunately blocking people out from info will just sow further distrust. I'm very pro law enforcement, but this trend has me raising my eyebrow even.

Especially now days when you can see camera footage that obviously doesn’t match the reports the officers file.

 

[Chicago2210]

Well looks like Johnson will be the Mayor, it may not happen right away but the chances of seeing CPD unencrypt just went up

 

[potala1369]

Honestly these days a LOT of people trust the "random scanner dude" on FB posting vs. what the actual police put out. It's a new world out here and unfortunately blocking people out from info will just sow further distrust. I'm very pro law enforcement, but this trend has me raising my eyebrow even.

With the 10th anniversary of the Boston Marathon bombing approaching, let me tell you about a 'random scanner dude'. I worked in the greater Boston area as a land surveyor and was familar with the area. I started listening when the various police agencies were chasing the brothers through parts of Cambridge. I heard the oldest brother get run over and then transported to the hospital. At this point in time, I notified a friend who publishes a a monthly newspaper and chases police calls at nights for stories, about what was going on. We both started posting what was happening. He had 1 scanner while I could listen to multiple agencies on several scanners. Early the next day, I heard LE officials state that all search info for the missing brother be broadcast on BAPERN3. Boston has a great interpolice radio system. Now we are down to monitoring 1 channel while posting info on FB. FB readers said what do we know. Meanwhile the 'professional reporters' from NYC made it up to the Boston area and very quickly became experts on everything about the search. Most reporters from NYC couldn't find Watertown if you spotted them an atlas, a GPS, and a seeing dog. Again, my friend and I were ridiculed as being 'random scanner dudes'. The proof in the pudding was when the MSP chopper with a heat seeking camera found him in the boat and described his position in the boat over the radio. We posted this info. About a half hour after we reported all of this, the experts from NYC broke the story as to how and where he was found and they were credited with 'breaking news'. To me and my friend, they were a day late and a dollar short; to others, they were the heroes in the breaking news world because they were the 'experts'. Bottom line, I will believe a 'random scanner dude' any day over a day late and dollar short news expert.

 

[N9JIG]

Let's keep things civil and on topic people.

 

[Elpato]

Well looks like Johnson will be the Mayor, it may not happen right away but the chances of seeing CPD unencrypt just went up

Not very likely now that his cheif of staff is going to be the former director of OEMC.

 

[Chicago2210]

Not very likely now that his cheif of staff is going to be the former director of OEMC.

We shall see

 

[RoninJoliet]

In the article in today's Tribune there is talk of possibility allowing the press with NO encryption but no mention of the public

 

[JethrowJohnson]

I was listening to a few of the CPD feeds this morning and it sounds like the dispatchers are in analog mode. Weren't they all supposed to be digital?

 

[INDaviation]

All the Citywides are still analog. All zones are P25 encrypted. The zone feeds are provided to Broadcastify by CPD with a delay.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

All the Citywides are still analog. All zones are P25 encrypted. The zone feeds are provided to Broadcastify by CPD with a delay.

If everyone on all zones are P25, then why do the dispatch consoles still have a beginning of transmission tone and why don't they sound as clear like the field units?

 

[INDaviation]

They're using older consoles most likely, and that sound is the console override tone. It's not exclusive to analog.

 

[RoninJoliet]

What Zone is that I monitor on tower 1-02 with TG 34054 ,....

 

[scannerjunkie]

What Zone is that I monitor on tower 1-02 with TG 34054 ,....

CPD zone 7 patch University of chicago

 

[MississippiPI]

Some need to be encrypted like swat, narcs, surveillance. Etc