Newbie 'Talkgroup' help!

[AtomicTaco]

Maybe a stupid question, but can you please further explain simulcast and site? I want to ensure that I understand the context of what you are saying.

I know you're in Everett but I don't know enough about the Snoho system to describe it accurately, but the same principles apply.

A site is a group of repeaters acting together. It has a control channel that is different from all other sites in the same system. One repeater sends out the control channel data and receives requests from radios. Other repeaters repeat the voice channel(s).

Simulcasts work the same way, except multiple repeaters repeat the traffic at different locations. King County operates probably the best simlcast coverage for King County (The KC system is jointly owned by KC, ESPCA, and the City of Seattle. Valley Communications is in there too, but KC does VC's radio work). If a user is within range of the KC portion of the system (and their radio is set to use that system before other systems, more on this in a bit) and they key up and start talking, you'll hear their voice come off the tower at Station 63 in Federal Way, Station 73 in Kent, and all the other sites. Basically the multiple physical sites act as one site.

When setting up a radio, they can be configured to always stay on one control channel, or to prefer a certain control channel. For example, Tukwila units are on the King County system 99.9% of the time, but it's possible that the Seattle control channel might come in slightly better in a particular location. The radio is set up to not roam onto the Seattle simulcast unless it absolutely has to, or in some cases not at all. And yes, Seattle does send a bill to King County requesting money for airtime. There are a few more details that I haven't covered, if you're super interested we can go into more detail. Not that it'll help with the Snohomish system

 

[Ishyid]

Are all trunked systems in the 800 mhz range, or can they be in the 100 mhz range?

-Josh-

 

[AtomicTaco]

Are all trunked systems in the 800 mhz range, or can they be in the 100 mhz range?

Trunked systems can be in the 800s, 700s, 900s (special type), and in the 150-512 MHz range. There are certain ranges for the 7/8/9s, I just don't happen to remember what they are. And you won't see anything trunked on TV frequencies between 150 and 512.

 

[Hover_X]

A site is a group of repeaters acting together. It has a control channel that is different from all other sites in the same system. One repeater sends out the control channel data and receives requests from radios. Other repeaters repeat the voice channel(s).

When setting up a radio, they can be configured to always stay on one control channel, or to prefer a certain control channel.

Good information, it's all starting to come together. Your response does bring up another question though... The control channel; what is it and how does it work? Is that the same thing as a base frequency? After reading my setup instructions in the PRO-97 manual I was under the impression that I could avoid entering all the trunked frequencies by entering the base frequency (ref pg 94-95 of the PRO-97 manual)

 

[AtomicTaco]

The base frequency is only used when defining a custom trunked system, usually in the 400 range. You don't need that for the 800 Snoho system. I think you're thinking of a control channel but calling it a base frequency. You are right that you don't need to enter all system frequencies; the 97 is a control channel only scanner. Read this document for more information:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Trunking_Basics

And this explains more in depth about Moto systems

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Motorola_Type_II

 

[Hover_X]

You are right that you don't need to enter all system frequencies; the 97 is a control channel only scanner.

Thanks for confirming this. I tried it and couldn't get it to work until I programmed in all the frequencies. Do you have any advice beyond what is in the manual for making this work?

 

[AtomicTaco]

Thanks for confirming this. I tried it and couldn't get it to work until I programmed in all the frequencies. Do you have any advice beyond what is in the manual for making this work?

You shouldn't have to do anything after you put the control channel in. If you modified the base/offset values then you'll want to restore them.

 

[Hover_X]

You shouldn't have to do anything after you put the control channel in. If you modified the base/offset values then you'll want to restore them.

I am using the instructions on pages 94-95 of the manual. That is where it talks about the 'base frequency.' Is that the first frequency in the range (i.e. 851.0125 MHz)? Is this also referred to as the control channel?

 

[AtomicTaco]

My manual must be different than yours (I only have 88 pages), but I do see this:

"If you try to program an offset frequency in the UHF-Hi bands (806-960 MHz), the scanner ignores the entry."

I don't know of any Moto 800 systems that you actually need to change the Base/Offset frequencies.

 

[Ishyid]

Ya, I understand it now. They use 800mhz and higer, becasue the waves are smaller, therefore able to go through concrete and things like that giving it better reception, but not as great distance.

 

[Hover_X]

You shouldn't have to do anything after you put the control channel in. If you modified the base/offset values then you'll want to restore them.

OK, I am re-trying this in Bank 2 (I had already entered all the 800 MHz frequencies in Bank 1 to get it to scan those channels). I must be doing something wrong because I have entered the talk group IDs in Bank 2 (without entering all the 800MHZ frequencies) and when I go to scan I get the following message:

Scanning up...
Bank 2

I entered the control channels and the alternates as shown on http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2527. I am not receiving anything. If I turn on Bank 1 I get plenty of conversation. What may I be doing wrong?

I do have Bank 2 in Open mode as well.

 

[AtomicTaco]

Are you trying to listen to this system?

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2527

851.0125 isn't a control channel.

 

[Hover_X]

Are you trying to listen to this system?

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2527

851.0125 isn't a control channel.

Please re-read my prior post (I found the control channles). I apparently was revising it as you were responding. But I am still having problems.

Furthermore, my Bank 1 (which I have all the 800 MHz frequencies programmed) seems to be working properly, but I don't know for sure. Whenever it locks onto a communication, the frequency is different as I would expect and my text tags are showing up (presumably correctly). The part that is puzzling me is that each transmission shows Bank 1 Chan 07 which is where I have 867.9375 (the control channel) programmed.

An example of the readout on my scanner is as follows:

S107MO 867.41250
pri att DLY VC-
Bank 1 Chan 07
SNOCOM DISP

 

[AtomicTaco]

Assuming you put in Bank 2, Channel 99, and you want West Simulcast, your display should look like:

M299MO 867.93750
pri att DLY lo-/
Bank 2 Chan 99
MOT: Control xx%

The last line might also switch to Sys-7F32 or flip through one of the talkgroups. Make sure the bank is set to Motorola. Hit Func + Trunk. If it says trunking mode not set... hit mode once and it'll switch to Motorola.


It's also 1,000 times easier programming the scanner via your computer, though Radio Shack makes it cost a lot. Win97 is hands down the best software. I'm pretty sure the GRE cable will work with the 97, since the 97 is PSR-300, but double check in the Radio Shack forum to make sure if you decide to get the GRE USB cable.

 

[lowboy654]

OK I am in Snohomish county have a 97,96,2051 and a 500 who is that you want to listen to and then I can help from there do you have win 97 I will send you a file of what I have.

 

[lowboy654]

Assuming you put in Bank 2, Channel 99, and you want West Simulcast, your display should look like:

M299MO 867.93750
pri att DLY lo-/
Bank 2 Chan 99
MOT: Control xx%

The last line might also switch to Sys-7F32 or flip through one of the talkgroups. Make sure the bank is set to Motorola. Hit Func + Trunk. If it says trunking mode not set... hit mode once and it'll switch to Motorola.


It's also 1,000 times easier programming the scanner via your computer, though Radio Shack makes it cost a lot. Win97 is hands down the best software. I'm pretty sure the GRE cable will work with the 97, since the 97 is PSR-300, but double check in the Radio Shack forum to make sure if you decide to get the GRE USB cable.

Well said program with the cable they are the same cable AT. I have both.....

 

[lowboy654]

To receive everything in Snohomish county as far as trunking goes you only need 867.9375 West and that would be everything from Everett down and everything north and east of Marysville would be 868.75000 your 97 can trunk scan and the only thing that you need is the control channel programed in it. you have a great scanner read about and read about the Hobie that you are jumping in to.

AT has given you some of the best help read it.

ken

 

[Hover_X]

Assuming you put in Bank 2, Channel 99, and you want West Simulcast, your display should look like:

M299MO 867.93750
pri att DLY lo-/
Bank 2 Chan 99
MOT: Control xx%

The last line might also switch to Sys-7F32 or flip through one of the talkgroups. Make sure the bank is set to Motorola. Hit Func + Trunk. If it says trunking mode not set... hit mode once and it'll switch to Motorola.


It's also 1,000 times easier programming the scanner via your computer, though Radio Shack makes it cost a lot. Win97 is hands down the best software. I'm pretty sure the GRE cable will work with the 97, since the 97 is PSR-300, but double check in the Radio Shack forum to make sure if you decide to get the GRE USB cable.

I get the last line to read: MOT:Sys-7F32 xx% and flips between than and 5-digit codes but when I scan, nothing still happens. I have the control frequency 867.93750 in Bank 2 Ch 00. It is in Motorola mode. What am I missing?

 

[Hover_X]

OK, I'm not quite sure what I just did, but I got it to work. I'm going to bed now and will figure it out in the morning.

THANKS for all the help, you guys are great and have great patience!

I'm sure I will generate more questions.

BTW, I downloaded Win 97, but do not have a programming cable.

 

[AtomicTaco]

Could've been your ID banks being off. That messed me up when I first got mine.